Bosma Murder Trial 05.16.16 - Day 49

[Kamille]

(Will the judge let Sachak do this indefinitely?)

That's what I was wondering. Where is TD's objection?

Asked and answered? Badgering the witness? This is not an LE interrogation. Pretty sure TD would not have gotten away with doing this to CN or any of the others.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Smich says it wasn't a magical forest. He says because of the very large amount of shock, paranoia, stress panic...

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Things are getting chippy. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
...and drinking/smoking from earlier, he does not recall. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Sachak starts to recite Smich's words about shock, stress, paranoia and is interrupted by Justice Goodman and told to let Smich talk.

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 6m6 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
Millard lawyer: You're clearly suffering from amnesia, correct? Smich repeats he was shocked. Stressed. Panicked. (You know it by now)

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Sachak suggests then that as a result of those factors he's suffering from amnesia. Smich says he wouldn't say amnesia. #Bosma

 

[Velma]

Smich says he doesn't know if he went back to his mother's house or his girlfriend's sister's place, and doesn't know how long it took.
by Adam Carter 12:14 PM

"How long would it take from where you buried the gun to cycle to Marlena's house?" Sachak asks. Smich says he doesn't know.
by Adam Carter 12:15 PM

Smich says he doesn't recall exactly where he woke up the next morning. "You didn't wake up at the Bosma residence, did you?" Sachak asks. "Absolutely not," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:16 PM

 

[Errrr]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Smich says he doesn't really recall. Says star light, moon light. Sachak doesn't care about that. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
"Oakville's a town, not a city," Smich says. Doesn't recall if he saw town lights when burying gun. Or how far he was from a road. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
Smich says "not really. Star light. Moon light maybe...I don't really recall." Sachak asks if a road nearby? Smich sighs. "I don't recall."

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 2m2 minutes ago
Is there a road? Street lights? City lights? Trees? Hills? Boulder? Long grass? "I don't recall." #Smich #Bosma @CTVNews

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 2m2 minutes ago
Smich doesn't recall if he had to ride over boulders or grass. "Usually in Oakville the city takes pretty good care of it..."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Smich says "Oakville usually takes pretty good care of the area," he says of area around forest that he can't remember.

OK, if he wants to quibble about the difference between a town and a city. Where is the nearest "forest" south of Haliburton?

 

[Inspector_North]

Yes it's fairly common in psychology and how the brain responds to crisis and trauma. Especially how your amygdala processes traumatic experiences and memory. Hence why I could actually understand aspects of Smich's memory problems. I mean, I believe he knows way more and where the gun is but at the same time there may be aspects he genuinely doesn't remember. It's such a mess either way.

That would then include his version of what happened the night of the 6th where he told the court in detail how DM did it. He did remember DM grabbing a flashlight and swapping plates just moments before and after seeing TB in the truck. How long does it take the crisis and trauma to set in?

MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

Sachak asks if Smich camped out in the forest that night and roasted Marshmallows.
by Adam Carter 12:13 PM

Can someone email this <modsnip> lawyer and tell him he isn't doing himself any favours with this stupid way of questioning someone.
He makes himself sound very petulant.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Sachak;"I'm trying to figure our this gun burial induced amnesia. U seem to have forgotten every detail except that it's a magical forest"

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Sachak suggests memory loss. Smich says he doesn't know what word he'd used. #Bosma

Colin Butler &#8207;@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Sachak asks "is this some kind of fun burial amnesia? All you seem to remember is this happened in a magical forest." #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 8m8 minutes ago
Smich says he didn't have amnesia but he doesn't remember things from that night. Asked if he was concerned about children finding gun?

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 8m8 minutes ago
Sachak asks if he was concerned about kids picking it up. Smich says no he buried it somewhere where no one would find it. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Was Smich concerned about kids finding the gun and an accident happening? No, Smich buried it where kids couldn't find it.

 

[ArianeEmory]

That's what I was wondering. Where is TD's objection?

Asked and answered? Badgering the witness? This is not an LE interrogation. Pretty sure TD would not have gotten away with doing this to CN or any of the others.

MOO

Yeah. And while I completely understand/respect the viewpoint of those who think MS pulled the trigger and that the whole thing was planned, this morning's testimony isn't accomplishing anything (or not anything I'm smart enough to perceive). I would assume the jury got the idea he was potentially being deceitful about his memories in the first, what, hour of this?

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
He says that wasn't a thought in his mind at the time. #Bosma

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 8m8 minutes ago
Sachak mocking Smich about having amnesia.

Shannon Martin &#8207;@ShannonMartinTV 8m8 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
Smich: Buried somewhere where I can't find it. No one else can find it. #Bosma #HamOnt #Smich

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 8m8 minutes ago
"I buried it somewhere where I can't find it, so no one else will find it," says Smich.

Peter Akman &#8207;@PeterAkmanCTV 9m9 minutes ago
"I buried it somewhere no one would fine it, that I won't find it, that no one would find it." Smich about gun #Bosma @CTVNews

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 8m8 minutes ago
"Even I couldn't find it," Smich says.

 

[Velma]

Smich again says he doesn't recall where exactly he slept that night - either his mom's home or his girlfriend's sister's.
by Adam Carter 12:18 PM

Smich says he doesn't recall if he had keys to the sister's place on the night he buried the gun.
by Adam Carter 12:18 PM

Sachak asks Smich what his first memory is after burying the gun. "I remember going to the wedding," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:20 PM

His sister was getting married on May 19.
by Adam Carter 12:20 PM

 

[Juballee]

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 18m18 minutes ago
Crt laughing at fact MS can't say at all how big spade was. A foot. 5 ft. Doesn't remember. @AM900CHML

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 18m18 minutes ago
He figures the spade was somewhere outside his mother's house. Maybe I grabbed it from a table. I dunno. #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 18m18 minutes ago
He says he might've grabbed it off a table. Sachak suggests he made a conscious decision to go look for an object to use. #Bosma

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 18m18 minutes ago
Smich says under the circumstances and feelings he had at the time, he made the decision. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 18m18 minutes ago
"Under the circumstances and everything I was feeling at that time, I made the decision" to bury the gun, Smich repeats again.

Peter Akman &#8207;@PeterAkmanCTV 18m18 minutes ago
"You weren't flying or swimming to get this spade... where you?" Millard's lawyer trying to jog Smich's memory and mock him #Bosma @CTVNews

In my opinion this is where Smitch sees he's screwed up his story. He can't remember if he used a small hand trowel or a large shovel type spade that you would stand on. There is a huge difference between the two, and it would be impossible for him to know know which one he used. Was he in his knees digging or was he standing up with a foot on the shovel? If he can't remember that the whole story is BS, in my opinion.

And he he won't say which because part of him must realize he's screwed up the story. He wouldn't have very easily been able to dig in a forest to any reasonable depth with a hand trowel and would have had a memorable ride trying to balance a full sized shovel on his BMX bike.

It's the details that show how made up his story is, and he doesn't trust that he's smart enough to improvise on the spot, in my opinion.

 

[lovelycoconut]

Sachak asks if he was worried kids might find the gun. "I buried it somewhere I can't find it and no one else will find it," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:10 PM

He was so stoned/drunk that he remembers nearly nothing of the night, but he had enough clarity in that state of mind to be damned sure it was a good burial spot? If he was as inebriated as he says he was, how does he know that the burial spot was so secure? I'm calling shenanigans.

"You know if the gun was found, it very well could have proved your innocence, right?" Sachak says. "That's correct," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:12 PM

Sachak says the gun is "secreted" somewhere.
by Adam Carter 12:12 PM

Sachak asks if Smich camped out in the forest that night and roasted Marshmallows. "No I didn't bring any marshmallows with me," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:13 PM

Can someone email this <modsnip> lawyer and tell him he isn't doing himself any favours with this stupid way of questioning someone.
He makes himself sound very petulant.

Well, if he doesn't remember anything else from that night, maybe he did camp out in the forest and roast marshmallows. I mean he doesn't even remember where he woke up the next day. I'm being sarcastic of course but I find it very hard to believe that for someone who is wanting to tell us all "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" that he doesn't remember anything about that night. I understand about trauma and the brain and all that, but in my gut I just don't believe that is the case here with Mr. Smich. MOO.

 

[Jug Up]

While it does sound convenient, the only reason it sounds believable to me is because I have actually had (technically I guess I still have it) what is called dissociative or psychogenic amnesia after a traumatic event. There is about 8 months of my life that I cannot recall certain details of. I have absolutely zero memory of some huge things that happened (like me driving across 3 states over a matter of 4 days) and who else was there, where I stayed, etc. Some things I do remember (like attending a birthday party) while other things are just a complete blank to me. I've come to terms with it only after studying it but truth be told, the memory is a very strange thing.

I can relate to this. I have the same with a certain traumatic situation in my life, involving a friend I was with losing his life while I was with him. To this day, I do not remember anything in the seconds before and hours after.

That said, you would think MS would have this "memory loss" right after discovering TB was dead, not days later when burying a gun. He seems to remember the incinerator, distancing himself from DM, certain conversations, but conveniently forgets where he put the weapon used in the murder?

Playing the devil's advocate, if he has post-trauma amnesia, how does he remember that he actually buried the gun at all? And that there was a forest?

Even if he had this condition, how would he remember any of this?

It's pure BS. And some people (not necessarily you) are actually falling for it.

 

[Velma]

"You you help us when you got your memory back?" Sachak says. Smich says he's not sure about the dates.
by Adam Carter 12:20 PM

"You don't even know the date when you buried the gun," Sachak says. Again asks what his "first recollection" is after burying the gun.
by Adam Carter 12:22 PM

"I don't know," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:22 PM

Sachak now asking Smich what position it was he dug in. Smich says he doesn't remember.
by Adam Carter 12:23 PM

 

[Ontario Mom]

Smich says he doesn't know if he went back to his mother's house or his girlfriend's sister's place, and doesn't know how long it took.
by Adam Carter 12:14 PM

"How long would it take from where you buried the gun to cycle to Marlena's house?" Sachak asks. Smich says he doesn't know.
by Adam Carter 12:15 PM

Smich says he doesn't recall exactly where he woke up the next morning. "You didn't wake up at the Bosma residence, did you?" Sachak asks. "Absolutely not," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 12:16 PM

Is it just me, or was that COMPLETELY out of line?

 

[Inspector_North]

So for anyone just joining. So far, Sachak has asked where MS buried the gun.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 12m12 minutes ago
He says he buried it "somewhere I can't find it, so no one else can find it." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 12m12 minutes ago
Tried to sell the gun that day "but the gun wasn't able to be sold," says Smich.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 12m12 minutes ago
Sachak asks if Daly suggested gloves. He doesn't recall, but says he did say something about dressing up and going out mid-day to do it.

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 13m13 minutes ago
"We were drinking and smoking earlier that day. Trying to sell the gun. The gun wasn't able to be sold." Smich decided to follow Daly advice

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 12m12 minutes ago
Sachak asks if Daly suggested using a spade. He doesn't recall. He asks if Daly suggested the tape. He doesn't recall. #Bosma

Colin Butler &#8207;@ColinButlerCBC 12m12 minutes ago
"I buried it a place I couldn't find it, so no-one could find it," Smich says. #Bosma

 

[JPC]

In my opinion this is where Smitch sees he's screwed up his story. He can't remember if he used a small hand trowel or a large shovel type spade that you would stand on. There is a huge difference between the two, and it would be impossible for him to know know which one he used. Was he in his knees digging or was he standing up with a foot on the shovel? If he can't remember that the whole story is BS, in my opinion.

And he he won't say which because part of him must realize he's screwed up the story. He wouldn't have very easily been able to dig in a forest to any reasonable depth with a hand trowel and would have had a memorable ride trying to balance a full sized shovel on his BMX bike.

It's the details that show how made up his story is, and he doesn't trust that he's smart enough to improvise on the spot, in my opinion.

His legal counsel would advise him against improvisation. He would be coached to stick to his original statements. The only thing that this cross is showing is that he is every bit as selective an unreliable as SS and CN.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lisa Hepfner &#8207;@HefCHCHNews 13m13 minutes ago
Did Daly tell him to use tape on the gun? He doesn't think so. Could the gun prove his innocence, if it has Millard's DNA on it?" it could

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes 13m13 minutes ago
Sachak suggests the gun he mid may very well prove his innocence. Smich agrees. #Bosma

Shannon Martin &#8207;@ShannonMartinTV 13m13 minutes ago Toronto, Ontario
Millard lawyer: The gun that may prove your innocence is buried somewhere? Smich: Correct. #Bosma #HamOnt #Smich

Alex Pierson &#8207;@AlexpiersonAMP 12m12 minutes ago
Sachak; "if the gun is fnd could prove you're innocent. But u just don't recall where u put it?" @AM900CHML

Susan Clairmont &#8207;@susanclairmont 12m12 minutes ago
Sachak says "the gun that could prove you didn't do anything wrong" is buried and Smich doesn't know where.

Colin Butler &#8207;@ColinButlerCBC 12m12 minutes ago
"The gun may very well prove your innocence is buried somewhere" Sachak says. "Yes that is correct," Smich replies. #TimBosma

 

[Typhoo1961]

Is it just me, or was that COMPLETELY out of line?

It's not you. It was.