Bosma Murder Trial 05.19.16 - Day 52

[JuneBug67]

Thank you Bill , and thank you for all your other meticulous records.

Super Sucker times
5:46pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
6:05pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
6:15pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
6:20pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

Here is how it pencils out if we add exactly 3 hours to the SS times with Bate phone time in red
8:46pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
9:05pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
9:15pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
9:20pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

There has been mention of adding 10 minutes additional adjustment to the corrected time
9:06pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
9:15pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
9:25pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
9:30pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

Same thing but subtract 10 minutes
8:36pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
8:55pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
9:05pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
9:10pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

No matter how we fiddle with the timeline it will not allow those "two extra truck sightings to be the Bosma Truck"
Crown video expert & police had it right the first time .

The adjusted timeline Sachak prefers is this:

8:56
9:15
9:25
9:30

It does work, and in fact better at first glance than the 3-hours-off version when compared with other known times. I think it's a tough call, and I'm almost certain the jury will take least weight the possibility. It becomes important if there are fence sitters with regard to MS. Otherwise, it's kind of whatever.

 

[hellkat2]

I don't think he did. A blurry black pickup passed by. Big deal. I wouldn't be convinced that is TBs truck in the video either if the Yukon wasn't following it. Not enough to send a guy away for life anyway.

The co-accused are not going to be walking free because of this video either. Not one of them. IMO.

 

[hellkat2]

In my way of thinking, I would have crafted my story around what actually happened rather that Plaxton's testimony. Just because Smich stayed in the car 10 minutes longer doesn't mean he killed him. He could have hilled him in one minute or twelve minutes, doesn't make a difference, so why lie?

In my opinion what they may have been waiting for in those ten minutes is something that is too difficult to speak of.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

The adjusted timeline Sachak prefers is this:

8:56
9:15
9:25
9:30

It does work, and in fact better at first glance than the 3-hours-off version when compared with other known times. I think it's a tough call, and I'm almost certain the jury will take least weight the possibility. It becomes important if there are fence sitters with regard to MS. Otherwise, it's kind of whatever.

But how can the clock be off 3 hours and 10 mins(5:46 to 8:56)
Then be off 3 hours and 5 minutes (6:05 to 9:10)
Would a clock thats off be off by the same time?

The adjusted timeline Sachak prefers is this:

8:56
9:15
9:25
9:30

It does work, and in fact better at first glance than the 3-hours-off version when compared with other known times. I think it's a tough call, and I'm almost certain the jury will take least weight the possibility. It becomes important if there are fence sitters with regard to MS. Otherwise, it's kind of whatever.

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

 

[Ontario Mom]

Sure, and all your impassioned defences of Mark Smich might look pretty "disgusting" to those he think he's lying. If he's a liar, you're supporting a "ludicrous story" too. Do you deserve to have opprobrium heaped on you for what you have written here? Or should we acknowledge that, for better or for worse, this is how the adversarial justice system works?

My impassioned defense of MS? Wow. I have never intentionally posted a single word in "defense" of him, impassioned or not. I have however, posted my thoughts on what may or may not be believable, possible and or probable, in defense of the truth in this case and justice for what happened to Tim Bosma. I believe Smich lying about some things and telling the truth about other things and I've stated that repeatedly. Do I deserve to be sharply criticized for posting those thoughts? I guess so.

I'm not sure how this ended up being about me. You expressed your surprise at the disdain for Sachak, and I offered what might be the answer, based on all I've read.

 

[andreww]

The co-accused are not going to be walking free because of this video either. Not one of them. IMO.

its one piece, and we are only talking about Smich here, of the puzzle. Its he said/she said to exactly what happened so all we have to go on is small clues like this. Is there enough to convict Smich of first degree? We'll see.

 

[Arnie M]

But how can the clock be off 3 hours and 10 mins(5:46 to 8:56)
Then be off 3 hours and 5 minutes (6:05 to 9:10)
Would a clock thats off be off by the same time?

THANK YOU .... and that was what I wanted to point out ..... folks can add or subtract or adjust or correct the SS timelines any way they want but they must apply it consistently to all 4 sightings ... and they did not ...... and it is impossible to figure it out (in court) unless all the comparisons are plotted out properly .... its too confusing to calculate standing on your feet or sitting in a jury box..

 

[JuneBug67]

But how can the clock be off 3 hours and 10 mins(5:46 to 8:56)
Then be off 3 hours and 5 minutes (6:05 to 9:10)
Would a clock thats off be off by the same time.

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

There is no 9:10 in the adjusted timeline: 8:56, 9:15, 9:25 and 9:30. (I had briefly typoed 9:10 and 9:20 so perhaps that's what you are responding to).

Arnie M's 10 minute adjustment included one 20 minute adjustment so I think that is why he thought no adjustment worked with the facts.

 

[Typhoo1961]

We'll see.

Yes, we'll see. The trial isn't over yet.

 

[ABro]

Millard’s first lawyer promised there was much more to this story and it would become clear in court. There was more to the framing aspect he couldn't get into etc. Ive yet to see this happen. This is likely why WS want the truth IMO.
I'm sure most us us recall this article or similar ones.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/15/tim-bosma-murder-suspect-dellen-millard-in-hamilton-court

And you believed him -- why?

As the old saying goes, "well he would say that, wouldn't he?"

 

[Typhoo1961]

Maybe the disdain comes from the place that he's defending DM with such a ludicrous story it just disgusts people? "Oh no!" "let's call an ambulance". IMO - 100% BS.

Maybe it comes from the place that folks find it highly inappropriate & disrespectful that he makes such smart mouth comments like "did you wake up at the Bosma house?"

Maybe it comes from the place that absolutely everything he's accused MS of not doing to make things right (calling 911, telling the police what happened, etc.) his own client did not do either? The hypocrisy is incredible there.

Maybe it comes due to his incessant repetition of asking the very same questions he doesn't like the answer to, then making more sarcastic comments about that.

I'm just guessing, based on what I've seen so far. Maybe it's all of those things.

Most of us only have tweets to go by, and based on those tweets, the reaction from a lot of people toward Sachak is pretty much the same. He just rubs people the wrong way.

I bolded all the points why I dislike Sachak. I'm hoping he finishes quickly today and we can move on to the Crown's cross examination. I've had more then enough of Sachak.

 

[billandrew]

A simple 3 minute adjustment to the Super Sucker video makes the timeline work:

8:49pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
9:08pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
9:18pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
9:23pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

These times don't have to be absolute, they just need to be accurate relative to each other.

What doesn't make sense is, if we accept MS's version of the story and don't make any corrections to the video time, why it takes 15 minutes to get from Bosma's to the Super Sucker building. They only met in the driveway briefly before departing, and there's no way it took them 10-15 minutes to let MS hop in the Yukon per MS's story. If MS's version is correct, how does he explain the time gap?

It makes more sense that they left Bosma's place shortly after 9:05pm, drove north past Super Sucker 1-2 minutes after that, then drove back south 10 minutes later to retrieve the Yukon, then departed toward Brantford (once again driving north past Super Sucker). JMO.

 

[canadiangirl]

And you believed him -- why?

I didn't say I believed him. I was commenting why it's possible WSers want the truth and believe they can have it.

In the beginning his lawyers were VERY adamant on this point so I believe it's relevant.

 

[Juballee]

I wish he'd blurt that out! Because I'm wondering if that's the truth. He already helped clean up another murder. IMO

If he blurted that out, it would be a mistrial and the Bosma's would have to go through this all over again. I don't think anyone wants that.

 

[andreww]

Yes, we'll see. The trial isn't over yet.

Too many people here want to cast their vote right now. Two weeks ago or so I was standing up for Smich saying that there wasn't enough evidence against him to convict at that point and the people here went in to fits. Now, after he's given his side of the story more people are starting to question his guilt. But the crown still gets to question Smich, the Pilay (if necessary), so there is a long way to go. You can't rate a movie after ten minutes and you can't judge a man's guilt without hearing both sides of the story. So yes, lets wait and see.

 

[lclabtech]

I was quite disappointed in the Super Sucker portion of Sachak's cross. I already thought MS was lying about the gun, the SIM card, etc but when Sachak said he was going to show that Smich was lying about he events of the test drive, I was looking forward to hearing it, I thought there'd be more of a gotcha. How that was presented fell flat to me, especially the forget the times part. The suggestions of what happened according to DM fell even flatter. Did he actually help his client at all? I don't think so, IMO.

Also, I think the suggestion that it's just racial bias is pretty... disappointing.

 

[hellkat2]

Yup, most definitely watching us here! A few of us said this a long while back in discussions.

Or he is just probability theorist like most of us. And he is stating a lot of theories that in all probability are true.

 

[hellkat2]

I think DM's scenario is just as plausbile as MS'. In a way, I think it fits the timeline better. BUT.....I don't believe either story. They're both tailoring their stories to fit the evidence. We'll never know exactly what happened. I believe they both went into this expecting to use the incinerator that night. I'm baffled at how many people are so eager to accept what MS has to say. It's almost like a disgust for DM and his defense has translated into accepting MS' lies. MOO

Simply stated and quite valid.

 

[lclabtech]

A simple 3 minute adjustment to the Super Sucker video makes the timeline work:

8:49pm .... Yukon going south on Trinity
9:05pm .... confirmed time the Bate & Bosma phones walked in Bosma yard
9:08pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity
9:18pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going south on Trinity
9:23pm .... Vehicle consistent with Bosma truck going north on Trinity followed shortly by Yukon

These times don't have to be absolute, they just need to be accurate relative to each other.

What doesn't make sense is, if we accept MS's version of the story and don't make any corrections to the video time, why it takes 15 minutes to get from Bosma's to the Super Sucker building. They only met in the driveway briefly before departing, and there's no way it took them 10-15 minutes to let MS hop in the Yukon per MS's story. If MS's version is correct, how does he explain the time gap?

It makes more sense that they left Bosma's place shortly after 9:05pm, drove north past Super Sucker 1-2 minutes after that, then drove back south 10 minutes later to retrieve the Yukon, then departed toward Brantford (once again driving north past Super Sucker). JMO.

Thanks for this.

 

[andreww]

And you believed him -- why?

As the old saying goes, "well he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Not so much that we do or don't believe him as we don't believe Sachak and his client. It is natural for people to hear two sides and that that one person of the other is lying. What most don't take in to account is that both can be lying, Like the say, "there's your side, there's my side, then there's the truth".