Bosma Murder Trial 05.25.16 - Day 55

[Errrr]

Good work by Fraser today. I'm still not convinced MS was in the truck when Tim was shot, but the way it was reported he fumbled & stumbled through answers about the gun (and other things) tells me he knew a heck of a lot more than he's let on. He said "no one was supposed to die". I think it's possible the gun was there for show, to threaten Bosma but DM took it a step further. Either way, the Crown today dismantled MS's testimony pretty well. No idea how the jury is going to decide but it'll be interesting to hear the closing arguments by all three lawyers next week.

Thankful for the Bosma family, that this is almost over.

Even if the gun was for show, they would have difficulty putting a live person in their incinerator.

 

[Webulls]

I need to go back and read the crown's cross in full, but at first read, I'm still not feeling first degree for MS.
I feel he focused heavily on what happened "after" TB was murdered which MS already admitted to.
He also used the word "plan vs coincidence" a whole lot, which stood out to me, but not in reference prior to the night TB was murdered.

The jury sees the bigger picture IMO so whatever their verdict I would be completely respectful of because at this point I'm kinda on the fence. I do not envy them in any way.

Even with overwhelming and damning evidence, yet we still have fence-sitters? All I can say is thank God you're not on the jury. Thank God!

 

[Webulls]

yes , yes , and yes.

When ms first took the stand i allowed the possibility he was "not there" for the killing and dm might get a harsher sentence .... But not any more ... Ms has made it easy for me to say max sentence for both of them. And i am sure the jury thinks the same.

amen!

 

[Errrr]

This is what makes me think it's possible his story is a form of the truth. I feel like if he were inventing a story to fit know evidence, he would say oh yeah that's my lighter, I probably dropped it when I was getting into the Yukon after Dellen dropped me off, or he would say that DM backed into the field to drop him off, thus fitting with the evidence of the neighbour saying two vehicles pulled out of the field.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe MM testified that she was there when Mark was speaking with AM about getting the drugs, and that she never heard him ask for any toolbox. Most people feel she was the most truthful of all the witnesses, so I'd think people might believe this?

The problem is that a minute after Mark spoke to Andrew about getting drugs out of the house, Andrew phoned Matt to extract that toolbox. Matt only reluctantly agreed in the end, maybe after realizing he had a hot potato in his possession.
DM assured MS that the gun was in a safe place the day before. Why would it need to be moved? I still don't think DM wanted it to get back to MS. Someone else also pointed out, why would MS want to be in possession of a gun if LE were closing in?
There's more to this gun issue than we know.

 

[don_quixote]

Even with overwhelming and damning evidence, yet we still have fence-sitters? All I can say is thank God you're not on the jury. Thank God!

Didn't the judge say that the jury is not supposed to form an opinion until after the closing by the three parties? Is Honourable Justice Goodman promoting fence sittingship in your opinion?

 

[canadiangirl]

Even with overwhelming and damning evidence, yet we still have fence-sitters? All I can say is thank God you're not on the jury. Thank God!

I'm thankful I'm not on the jury either, as I said, I don't envy them at all. However no one has said that they think MS is innocent and should walk. We just aren't sure to what extent he is guilty. And since I'm not the only fence sitter, I tend to think out of 14 jurors there may be a fence sitter there too. Or at least someone wavering. Which is the whole point of MS going on the stand if you ask me. MOO.

I do have to say the "passion" I feel from posters and people in general discussing this case is strong. If I was on trial and trying to prove my innocence, I'd hope those people were not on the jury either.
A lot of people had both the accused guilty before ever going to trial. (general public included). Very scary IMO.

 

[Arnie M]

I think DM's lawyer had a closer scenario. They headed north on Trinity towards the highway. Tim was shot. They came back south to the field. Then headed back north again. I have no idea why the neighbour said they headed west.

9:05 north
9:15 south
9:30 north

I tend to agree but I am going to go back to those (adjusted) timelines again and see if the following is possible :

North to Super Sucker
And then South again
And then MS gets dropped at Yukon
And DM does go straight west on Book Rd like Bullman said
And MS follows in the Yukon
Then DM pulls over and shoots TB
Then DM walks back to Yukon like the lunatic MS described
Then the U-turn MS mentioned and up Trinity past SS

Then to Bobcat to change plates and wipe and toss phone

Liars (MS) will often mingle bits of truth in the story and I think the U-turn and lunatic parts maybe happened , just not how MS said.

 

[mimimic]

My thoughts on Pedo/Dogs and fire works ...three dogs i know of when fireworks are happening all react by trying to hide and one of them pants profusely.

 

[torontoguy31]

I'm thankful I'm not on the jury either, as I said, I don't envy them at all. However no one has said that they think MS is innocent and should walk. We just aren't sure to what extent he is guilty. And since I'm not the only fence sitter, I tend to think out of 14 jurors there may be a fence sitter there too. Or at least someone wavering. Which is the whole point of MS going on the stand if you ask me. MOO.

I do have to say the "passion" I feel from posters and people in general discussing this case is strong. If I was on trial and trying to prove my innocence, I'd hope those people were not on the jury either.
A lot of people had both the accused guilty before ever going to trial. (general public included). Very scary IMO.

couldn't have said it any better, I mean what a shock! people have different opinions!

 

[Errrr]

I agree for the most part. What did stand out to me was his comment that "no one was supposed to die". I'm not even sure why, but just the way that came out makes me now think he did know DM had that gun with him. But... if the plan all along in DM's head was to kill a man, steal his truck and burn his remains, I'm not convinced at this point that MS was in on all those details.

In other words, I'm still partially on the fence.

I still think MS knew the plan to kill a man but hoped they wouldn't. Here's to the future weakness of all his hopes.

 

[Abitcountry]

He was risking serving a life sentence being labelled as a rat, which I understand is some of the hardest time that you can do. If convicted he will spend every second of his time with a huge target on his back. That is why DM did not testify, IMO.

I get the 'rat' thing......but what is the label for a former rich guy who busts his hump trying to frame each and everyone of his so called friends to save his own azz and his get back to his assets ?

 

[Arnie M]

Maybe the judge needs time. I can't imagine how mentally exhausting this is for everyone involved. I trust his judgment

I think the judge has to be very exacting during his instructions to the jury ... he has to touch on areas of testimony since day one of the trial and instruct them on how (or how not) to apply it .... Many defense appeals are based on "wrong instruction" claims

 

[mimimic]

MS as a rat... would it generally be considered ratting on DM (if he says his story is true to his new buddies) or only isho/squishy? Not sure i can make my question make sense, but If he tells his new friends in prison that DM went lunatic and he had no clue, is it still ratting?

 

[hellkat2]

I get the 'rat' thing......but what is the label for a former rich guy who busts his hump trying to frame each and everyone of his so called friends to save his own azz and his get back to his assets ?

From what I understand DM will have a better time of it because he did not rat on his co-accused like MS did. As terrible and unethical and difficult to understand that is for those of us who have no insight into that world.

 

[sleuther76]

Even with overwhelming and damning evidence, yet we still have fence-sitters? All I can say is thank God you're not on the jury. Thank God!

I don't think that comment was necessary. We have fence sitters (myself included) because there is still reasonable doubt (in our opinion) that MS knew about the plan to kill before hand and was present in the truck. There are still a lot of holes in the crowns evidence and the majority of it is circumstantial at best. My guess is that there is at least 1 or 2 fence sitters on the jury re: MS and they will be sticking to these few points very passionately. My guess is that MS get's a lesser charge ... most likely AATF

 

[hellkat2]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 33s34 seconds ago
Crown: "the two of you are good with each other and good with what happened and good with the plan." Agree or disagree? Smich: "I disagree."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 23s24 seconds ago
Smich says he "disagrees completely" with idea that he was comfortable with Millard at this point. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 39s40 seconds ago
Smich says on the 7th at night Millard was completely normal. Now that he thinks about it, it was the 7th. #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 34s35 seconds ago
Smich says by May 9 Dell was "normal."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 18s19 seconds ago
Smich has prev said that Millard was "back to normal" when he saw him on May 9. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 36s36 seconds ago
Smich agrees he had never seen Millard act like he did on the night of Bosma's death. #timbosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 41s41 seconds ago
Fraser is trying to understand. Millard was only a lunatic for five minutes when he shot and killed #TimBosma at Bobcat of Brantford?

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 35s35 seconds ago
But now says it was maybe the night of May 7, the first time he saw him again, that he was back to normal. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 21s21 seconds ago
Crown: "He was 5 minute lunatic Dell (when he shot Bosma) and you didn't see him for that." Smich says he was a lunatic after too.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 42s42 seconds ago
Fraser says "so he was a lunatic for five minutes and that was the precise time you were not with him?" Smich can't really explain. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 35s35 seconds ago
Fraser suggests then that Millard was "a lunatic...for 5 minutes." Conveniently the 5 mins Smich claims he wasn't with him.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 26s26 seconds ago
Smich says Millard stayed a lunatic for awhile after. "He looks pretty calm and rationale strolling through the hangar"at 1:30am Fraser says

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 15s15 seconds ago
Walking through hangar with Pedo after killing Bosma, Millard seems calm and rational, says Crown. Smich says he doesn't know, it was dark.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 37s37 seconds ago
Fraser suggests Millard didn't look like a lunatic "strolling" through the hangar in surveillance footage from 1:33 am on May 7. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 25s25 seconds ago
Fraser mocks MS' "so we r to believe that Del was a lunatic for 5 min. And it just so happens u weren't with him. And then he was normal"

Fraser is doing a very very good job.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I am curious to know why some people believe that MS has to be "in the truck" in order to be found guilty of 1st degree murder?

I am trying to understand the reasoning behind this belief. TIA


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Abitcountry]

Could not disagree more. Just because he's taking courses in prison does not for one second make him anything less than the monster he is. He's got 25 years coming at him. He best sign up for every course the prison offers.

And if/when he gets released after 25 years, maybe you can stand in line to be his neighbour. Your preoccupation with his rehab and well being is so far out of line with the disgust and horror most people feel about this killer.

I actually do agree with your first sentiment.....and I am happy to leave it in the hands of the judge and jury.

Regarding your second sentiment.....I was passionate like that when I was younger and I even felt what you obviously feel towards people like me. And then I grew up and aged considerably and found that my heart had become this compassionate reservoir of love and forgiveness in good measure together with sound judgement being firm but also fair. And I will tell you this--I would trade the passion and disrespectful ways of my youth for the comfort and peace I now experience living in my skin in a heartbeat.
Geez, if this transformation in life continues in my life and does a work in MS's as well, we just might be happy as neighbours.

I have no difficulty with you expressing yourself passionately but when you come that close to ad hominem attack in your choice of words and phrasing, in the eyes of many, you have lost points and possibly the argument. rinces:

 

[NashBridges2]

I agree with you,I'm not convinced either. While the crown painted a graphic picture of how they feel the events went down, and may have rattled MS a little, he still stuck to his story. He didn't cause him to admit to anything.

Lol, very rarely, does a defendant get on the stand and admit they committed a crime.

 

[hellkat2]

If that is the case then how did the blood and gun residue get all over the inside of the RAM? I'm not buying it.

Is it possible that TB was shot before MS got into the Yukon?