Bosma Murder Trial 06.13.16 - Day 60 - Charge to jury - Day 2

[RandomName479]

The judge has allowed some material to be published and has upheld the ban on other stuff as per DM's request.

BBM - as per DM? do you have a link for that?

 

[canadiangirl]

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 7m7 minutes ago
We are now moving onto Decision Tree 2 -- aiding/abetting.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes · 7m7 minutes ago
Goodman says he's going to go another 10 or so minutes, and that lunch will be ordered in for the jury today.

 

[meterclicks]

The next question is asking if at the time of helping or encourage, did the other know the first intended to commit a planned murder. If the answer to that is no, the accused is guilty of 2nd degree murder.
by Adam Carter 12:17 PM

If the answer to that last question is yes, then they're guilty of first degree murder.
by Adam Carter 12:18 PM

Sorry everyone, I know how technical this is. I'm trying to distill it down as best I can.
by Adam Carter 12:19 PM

 

[meterclicks]

We're now taking lunch. Back at 1:30 p.m.
by Adam Carter 12:23 PM

 

[littlesauce]

BBM - as per DM? do you have a link for that?

Deleted my post as I realized it was discussed without jury in the room last Friday. The media will release what they can when the jury goes to deliberate.

 

[Ontario Mom]

FWIW ... Here is an example of what a simple decision tree can look like ... This example is for a finding of 2nd DM:

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Very helpful to have a visual. Thank you for that.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I thought there was still going to be a publication ban on a lot of stuff pending other trials.

I think that as long as the "what the jury doesn't know" reporting doesn't include anything that can harm the upcoming trials, it can be published. Not sure how much info THAT will be, though, lol!


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[MrsThreadgoode]

So from what I take from this.... If the jury feels DM/MS did not plan to kill TB then it cannot be considered M1. Right? DM could have planned to kill SOMEONE but unless he directly planned to kill TB, it is not M1. Or am I way off? lol

I could be wrong, but I didn't interpret it that way ... Doesn't matter who the victim would be, as long as it was a deliberate plan to murder.

MOO


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[Bellers]

Hard to say, Abro felt BD was a credible witness, and MM changed her "celebrating" testimony. I don't think either have a reason to lie about this so it's possible both occurred IMO

Sorry, who is BD? I can't keep track of all these acronyms, it gets a bit confusing.

 

[RandomName479]

Sorry, who is BD? I can't keep track of all these acronyms, it gets a bit confusing.

Brendan Daly

 

[dar107]

I am looking forward to reading the articles about "what the jury didn't see".......

SC (for one) tweeted that she will be publishing something once the jury is sequestered.....

Could shine some light on the TRUTH (not to be confused with JUSTICE)....

all MOO

I am betting there will be a lot of shocking tidbits that are going to make us angry! I think the level of that anger will be determined by the verdicts. There has been so much we have not heard, but then there is still stuff they we may not hear until after other trials.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Did he actually use that big word? lol

A judge after my own heart. LOL

 

[littlesauce]

Goodman now moving on to planning and deliberation. If the jury believes Millard and Smich planned Bosma's murder, and it was deliberate, they are then to be found guilty of first-degree murder.
by Adam Carter 11:44 AM

"It is not enough for Crown counsel to prove that Bosma was murdered ... or that it was planned, or it was deliberate," Goodman says. It has to be both.
by Adam Carter 11:45 AM

Planned and deliberate mean different things, Goodman says. Planned means a "calculated scheme or design ... the plan does not have to be calculated or sensible."
by Adam Carter 11:47 AM

Does this not read as they have to have planned Bosma's murder specifically? BBM

 

[Lexiintoronto]

@court, lunch
@11:20 when judge was talking about 'unlawful killing', DM looked at MS, who ignores him.

Defendants in courtroom when jury walked in after first break. Most jurors looked towards middle of seats where Bosma family are seated.

Judge: do not consider evidence in isolation, but as a whole.

Abeter is equal to encourage. Did the abeter know Bosma would be threatened with a gun?

Why bring a loaded gun to a car theft?

Abeter cannot encourage unless they know what the act is, does not have to be a long plan.


My observation: when jury not in room, standing with hands in back pocket of JEANS, talking and smiling with lawyer.

DM was described as calm, polite, relaxed when at Bosma residence--he acts that way today in court as well.

 

[Inspector_North]

Does this not read as they have to have planned Bosma's murder specifically? BBM

There is much evidence that they planned a murder. And if it is specific to this particular event, the whole part of the trial showing activity before TB put his truck on sale would be mute.

There are two parts to the planning, the generic planning, the Eliminator, purchase of gun etc. And the more specific part that occurred around the time of the first calls to TB. That would be the mission preparation for the all nighter, and the request for gloves and tape for fireworks night.

MOO

 

[FastLikeLight]

talking and smiling with lawyer.

Does anybody know how much it costs to have a lawyer for a such long case? What I hear and read about lawyer charges I doubt that SM could afford any even if he sold a gun and weed.

 

[FastLikeLight]

deleted

 

[Sillybilly]

Does this not read as they have to have planned Bosma's murder specifically? BBM

No, it is planning the murder of any person who in this case happens to be TB.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Does this not read as they have to have planned Bosma's murder specifically? BBM

Perhaps those tweets read that way, but legally speaking, some people deliberately plan to murder someone, anyone, without knowing in advance who their victim might be, i.e. some serial killers, mass murderers, many other individual murderers. To be convicted of 1st DM, a murder is planned and deliberate, regardless of whether or not the murderer's plan included a specific choice of person.

MOO


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[Inspector_North]

I am not getting what Judge Goodman meant when he said no motive, and that Dell had the funds to purchase a truck.

Yes Dell still had some leveraging room, but he was not in a good financial position to remain sustainable. He even acknowledged that when he texted AM about needing to steal $100,000/month to get out of the hole. He said it was not an option. How is that for motive in DM's eyes?

MOO