Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[jash]

<snipped>

I dont have much to go on , just instincts , but some things are obvious about MS ... his heart is set on the violent rap genre with all the slaughter and killing and blood and guts and gore and hatred .... and he even chose SAY10 as his moniker .... if that does not radiate evil , then I dont know what does. (I think his demeanor in court is sullen anger - not remorse)

<snipped>

BBM - According to the testimony, DM actually gave MS that nickname. But it certainly seems MS was happy to adopt it. I wonder if he got the custom hat himself or if it was gift from his brutha from another rabbit.

 

[Inspector_North]

Perhaps she convinced herself to drink DM'S kool-aid being his mother. A mother bear protects her cub at all costs. Her and CAN surely knew what was in that trailer and what was going down..why else would they think the media was coming.

Regardless MB was not charged that we are aware of. However I am quite confident that she has been plenty shamed and will continue to live with the consequences of her sons actions until the end of her days. I think that's pretty much a given. So for those who want her to suffer.... I have no doubt she is.

I wonder if living with the consequences of her son actions may even be an improvement. I am sure she wants this trial to be over so time and copious amounts of wine will allow her to get on with her life without the resource sucking son.

Don't expect sympathy from me. Only MM showed any kind of remorse. Both CN and MB didn't want to get involved in his "mess". I can't help but see red every time I hear one of them describe this horrible heartless crime.

MOO

 

[jash]

I agree 100% with this post. Most importantly, I think MS can be rehabilitated, whereas DM can not. Other differences I've seen between the two, MS kept those closest to him out of it, while DM drew those closest to him into the situation. MS seemed affected by what transpired, while DM continued on as if nothing happened. MS has also shown emotion in court, while DM jokes, laughs and waves like he's the queen of England.

While I think MS was clearly involved, and most likely knew what was going to go down(though I'm still not certain it's been proven without reasonable doubt) he's not on the level DM is. I think if he can get on the stand, tell the truth, and come across as credible, he can both give the Bosmas closure, knowing what really happened, and may give himself a shot at parole, and one day getting out of jail. All MOO

BBM - I think MS involved those around him less than DM may have (or less seriously) but he still did. He had MM present when they were discussing the theft (and possibly more). He hid the gun under his mother's washing machine and then took off as he didn't want to be around it (sounds like his sister sure appreciated that). He stayed at his girlfriend's sister's apartment, which resulted in her getting dragged into court. He used other people's phones for communication. He got his friend to pick up the backpack and toolbox, putting him at risk [just realized we never heard from this guy -- perhaps he'll be a witness for the defense]. He got his other friend to try to sell the gun and/or weed. And unrelated to the Tim Bosma case, but he had his girlfriend sell drugs for him using a `tricky scale`. Neither MS nor DM seemed to put anyone`s needs ahead of their own.

 

[jash]

IMO CN wasn't wiping off hers and MB's prints from the trailer, CN was wiping off hers and DM's prints MOO.

I'd love to know how long CN and MB were back at the house doing the wipe down. Shouldn't the Kleinburg neighbour's security camera have caught MB's Prius coming and going?

Does anyone know what kind of locks were on the trailer (keyed vs combination)? Is it possible CN was able to get into the trailer? I wonder if DM had a spare set of keys that she could have grabbed from Maplegate while collecting the emergency cash and chequebooks.

 

[dar107]

I wonder if living with the consequences of her son actions may even be an improvement. I am sure she wants this trial to be over so time and copious amounts of wine will allow her to get on with her life without the resource sucking son.

Don't expect sympathy from me. Only MM showed any kind of remorse. Both CN and MB didn't want to get involved in his "mess". I can't help but see red every time I hear one of them describe this horrible heartless crime.

MOO

Can you show me where I am asking for your sympathy? I am confused why you have said this twice on 2 of my posts?

 

[musicaljoke]

Does anyone with knowledge of how the jails work know if DM is lying that he would have been kept naked for weeks and been kept in a video-recorded cell, being given just bread, jam and water? That seems like one of his made up ideas in his head IMO, to make him seem more vulnerable to CN so she pities him.

MOO.

He's lying. Detainees on suicide watch wear a heavy, sleeveless smock that can't be torn or rolled up into a noose. They aren't left naked. Just imagine the heating bills! Meals follow Canada's Food Guide. His account sounds like something he saw in an old movie.

It's hard for me to imagine that he truly was on suicide watch, and his description suggests that he has no idea what he's talking about. It seems like he's rather enjoying being a big frog in his small pond. He may have been in segregation, but that's not the same as suicide watch.
~~~~

&#8220;He&#8217;s not somebody who&#8217;s cocky or arrogant or one of those rich brat kids,&#8221; Paradkar said.
Millard is being held in the Barton Street East Jail in Hamilton, where he is under heavy guard but not in protective custody.
&#8220;I&#8217;m not saying [he&#8217;s in] isolation but similar to isolation,&#8221; Paradkar said.
He&#8217;s also not under a suicide watch, he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...formally_charged_with_firstdegree_murder.html

 

[Abitcountry]

My memory is failing me on the "who" but someone was at the trial when LW_1 testified. He was sitting at a table in cafeteria when he and his GF/wife overheard conversation. The lady asked the guy she was with "is that SB" and GF/wife turned around and said "yes, that is SB" they snickered or something (sorry I do not remeber the whole post word for word) When they went back in to the courtroom, LW_1 was called in and GF/wife said "isn't that the lady from cafeteria". This WS'er posted had the impression that MR. Charlie may not be called, due to maybe being hostile.

Hopefully the the WS'er that originally posted this, see's this and corrects me if I'm wrong or add what I forgot.

A few people are curious about this topic.......I believe it was billandrew who was in the cafeteria with his gf. They overheard people nearby asking "is that her" in reference to SB. When billandrew's gf responded in the affirmative, the woman who asked of SB behaved in a huffy and hostile fashion at being overheard in a public space. Later when trial began, billandrew and his gf recognized Ms Huffy & Hostile as LW_1 when she was invited to the witness stand.

LW_1 (Liz Williams I think )was testifying as a former bookkeeper at Millardair and her partner CD (Charles Dubien) was the IT guy that sometime later was expected to testify regarding the surveillance system that he supposedly installed.
LW_1's performance on the witness stand was so bizarre that posters here went a little nuts and there was huge speculation that she may be charged with perjury---she was not, but her testimony was awkward to say the least and seemed to be ended rather abruptly.

CD her partner, was supposed to be called in the future but that has not happened. Billandrew was right way back then when he speculated that CD "may not be called, due to maybe being hostile."
As the trial progressed we learned that Schlatmann actually installed the surveillance and knew how to operate it ----with his adjustments of the cameras and the app on his cell phones.
I believe that CD was consulted by Millardair regarding the surveillance system to purchase and the details of operation.....and he was later contacted by DM as to how to erase the digital recordings on the DVR. .......and possible intermittent service of the system.

IMO--Dropping CD from the witness list was a good move .....he was likely going to end up being more trouble than he was worth.

 

[matou]

I don't believe at all that DM was suicidal but he could have been place on suicide watch. His mugshot looks angry and he is clenching his jaw. He knows he is only charged with forcible confinement and theft and is curious to know what evidence the police have. In his letters, he mentions holes in the evidence and investigation. He is full of himself. JMO

 

[jash]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...y-treated-me-as-though-i-were-hannibal-lecter

&#8220;I knew before I was arrested that I wanted you to be the mother of my children. I was waiting for you to finish school. I was waiting for my business to stabilize. I was waiting for us to explore the entire globe. Maybe I was waiting for me to be to be just a little more mature&#8230;

Business? What business?
Living off credit? Stealing goods for personal use? Incineration? Farm commune?

 

[Errrr]

You are most likely correct , thank you , and most normal people will agree with you 100% .... but I must warn you .... I am NOT normal .... Haaaaa !!

Here is my slant , and I have said it from the beginning .... regardless of who actually pulled the trigger , if we could to peer deep into the hearts and souls of both those men , I think we would find the evil originated from deep within MS .... it radiated from there and then DM , the psychopath-narcissist latched on to it , became a willing partner and enabler with benefits for himself (another servant) (a free truck)

I dont have much to go on , just instincts , but some things are obvious about MS ... his heart is set on the violent rap genre with all the slaughter and killing and blood and guts and gore and hatred .... and he even chose SAY10 as his moniker .... if that does not radiate evil , then I dont know what does. (I think his demeanor in court is sullen anger - not remorse)

He even composed some lyrics for his songs that used the words anger and danger and .380 (his gun) ..... I think he saw DM as his enabler for his "rap career" .... and I think DM saw MS as someone he could manipulate for his own purposes by holding out a carrot to MS ..... "promises" to set him up in a pad at Riverside , and help him establish his rap career , things like that

Even his long time buddy testified ..............

..... we heard more cross examination of one of Mark Smich’s close friends from 2013, Brendan Daly and we heard that Daly was intimidated by Smich, an aspiring rap star who made him uncomfortable with violent conversations.

Brendan Daly told the court his friend Mark Smich was always aggravated and had a mean and violent streak in him. The two were Oakville neighbors who hung out every day to smoke weed and drink beer. Daly said he got nervous when Smich started talking about violent things. The jury heard Smich’s ipad was full of rap lyrics talking about guns like, “my 380 is no stranger when I’m angered you’re in danger.” The crown believes Tim Bosma was killed by a Walther 380 pistol.

I dont see that embedded evil in DM , he is simply an immature delusional irresponsible narcissistic psychopath who has done evil things (I dont think his demeanor in court is a lack of remorse as much as it is a continuation of his delusion) (even his letters confirm that)

By saying all that I am now almost forced to lay much of the blame on MS for the LB murder ..... which now puts me in a very tight corner where I almost have to include Wayne's death in there as well .

And I am able to do that on the very slenderest of information .... DM has been charged with the illegal purchase of the gun that killed WM .... and indeed I think DM did buy the gun .... but it was for Mark .... people say it is a mystery where Mark's .380 gun is .... I dont think it is a mystery .... I think Police have had "Mark's gun" ever since they investigated the "suicide" of WM .... and for all we know "Mark's gun" could have been used on LB a few months earlier.

That's the scary thing about DM. He presents himself as a civilized, polite and accomplished person. And he is counting on people just like you for his entire defence.

 

[Abitcountry]

I don't believe at all that DM was suicidal but he could have been place on suicide watch. His mugshot looks angry and he is clenching his jaw. He knows he is only charged with forcible confinement and theft and is curious to know what evidence the police have. In his letters, he mentions holes in the evidence and investigation. He is full of himself. JMO

And he looks "fat" in that mug shot. Fat....fat.....fat.....:rocker: But what can you expect after eating all that 'bread and jam' while

on su-icide watch. I repeat........Fat...fat....fat.....fat....fat.....IMHO :floorlaugh:

 

[Arnie M]

That's the scary thing about DM. He presents himself as a civilized, polite and accomplished person. And he is counting on people just like you for his entire defence.

Hi Errr .... I am not defending him per say ..... its more of a description of his personality (and I could be wrong) ..... let me put it another way , many psychopaths go into business and become wealthy .... it often depends who mentored them or who they hung around with.

And yes , you are right , if DM had gone into a legitimate business he would be the same .... manipulate people , act civilized and polite , and pour on the charm to get what he wants. And if he manufactured or sold products that killed half his customers he wouldn't care about them any more than he cared about TB.

 

[brightii]

I wonder if the letters sent from CN to DM do still exist and if DM's defence team has them? If the letters were not destroyed, will they be used at this trial, or at CN's trial later in the year? Perhaps they will be presented at both?

I don't buy that CN's letters were destroyed by DM or MB if they contained anything at all that could be considered "useful" to DM, IMO. If the letters exist and contain information that would further incriminate DM, then we'll be expected to accept that they were destroyed, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[jash]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...y-treated-me-as-though-i-were-hannibal-lecter

Oct. 1, 2013

“I hope my September 16th letter made sense. Haha, I was in a special state of mind when I wrote it,”

“None of the science included in the disclosure is hugely relevant. I’m assuming they have Grissom from CSI Las Vegas working the case, and will discover and prove everything that science can.

“If they miss something, then bonus. If they fake something, then it’s a chance to catch them faking. The science shows a body was disposed of. It does not, in this case, show how someone died.

“If someone dies accidently, and then the body is disposed of, that’s not murder. If someone dies accidently during a robbery, that’s murder,”

“Most of the evidence points to me going to Buy a pickup. This results in an acquittal, and I’m a free man. But there’s a problem, and it’s the testimony of Andrew Michalski.”

“****ing panzy, scared into giving up a true friend. He doesn’t understand the law. He doesn’t know what the words mean. He’s the only piece of evidence that puts me in the category of intentional robbery.

“His testimony, not forensic science, is going to get me convicted. He is the most important, single piece of the case against me…

“We are going to argue that Andrew was given the message that he wasn’t going home until he said what police wanted to hear. That he was untruthful, so that police would let him leave…

“He is probably mad at me, blaming me for his frightenning interrogation, so that he doesn’t have to admit to himself how completely he has thrown me under the bus. All he had to do was say nothing, but instead he tried to talk his way out.”

“Andrew needs to say I showed him a picture of a truck and asked ‘who’s I should BUY. That he changed it to steal because, before the interrogation began, cops told him they wanted to hear about the planning of a truck robbery.

“Someone needs to shake him up.”

“He should never have moved things after I was arrested. That was Mark who brought heat to him, not me…

“It was Mark who ****ed up a truck robbery, not me. And just because I helped clean up Mark’s mess, does not mean I should also pay for it. Especially not because of a technicality in the law. Especially not because Andrew didn’t know how to keep his mouth shut.

“I need him to undo the damage he has done me!

“I love him and I know he loves me. He has a loyal heart. If he knew that his words were going to get me a life sentence, he would want to change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them.”

BBM
- I don't believe they've introduced the Sept 16th letter but I wonder if DM got access to mind-altering substances. Barton St. jail has had 6 overdose deaths since 2012 so drugs are coming in.
- Curious to know DM's thoughts now on whether anything was missed by forensics.
- Setting up test drive via burner phone, hiding his own vehicle and going at night/barely looking over truck = indications of intent to buy? Sure Melon.
- I think DM is happy AM moved the stuff, otherwise police would have the gun right now. I wish we had more clarity on who DM told about the toolbox. According to MH, he got it from DM and didn't know what was inside. According to AM, MS requested the drugs from the house and what was given to MH. According to MS's crew, he neither wanted nor was expecting the gun.
- Amazing how easy it is for DM to express his (so called) feelings about his buddies, but it takes facing life in prison to be able to say it to his longtime girlfriend.

I wouldn't be surprised if down the road, DM tries to write his own book about the case like OJ's If I Did It.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I too think MS really doesn't have much more to lose if he took the stand but there may be huge risks for him too. The big risk that I can think of is there may be evidence or behaviour patterns of the accused deemed inadmissible that if MS or DM takes the stand could be admissible. I don't know if that is possible but that was my first thought. IMO, the Crown would have extra evidence ready if either of the two accused take the stand. Just like Dungey brought up abuse with MM when she was on the stand, I am positive the Crown has heavily prepared just incase.

MOO.

Who kept his mouth shut for 3 years as DM and MS did (I'm convinced that is a pact between the both) will not take the stand, I think. The witnesses lied or told half truths, so they did DM and MS a great favour although they have nothing to gain (except a future carreer in the OC?). Why destroy the nice creation of lies and missing pieces by the accused? - MS I don't know, but DM is certainly sunbathing in the imperfect story thinking of the idiots (in his eyes) who never will learn the whole truth about this evil deed. IMO

 

[Wollander77]

I agree 100% with this post. Most importantly, I think MS can be rehabilitated, whereas DM can not. Other differences I've seen between the two, MS kept those closest to him out of it, while DM drew those closest to him into the situation. MS seemed affected by what transpired, while DM continued on as if nothing happened. MS has also shown emotion in court, while DM jokes, laughs and waves like he's the queen of England.


While I think MS was clearly involved, and most likely knew what was going to go down (though I'm still not certain it's been proven without reasonable doubt) he's not on the level DM is. I think if he can get on the stand, tell the truth, and come across as credible, he can both give the Bosmas closure, knowing what really happened, and may give himself a shot at parole, and one day getting out of jail. All MOO

Speaking for myself, I don't think I can credit MS with the kind of integrity and character it'll take to admit his minimal, or extensive, involvement in TB's death.

ATM, I also don't see MS and TD as opportunistic risk-takers willing to throw DM under the bus by first admitting MS's role in TB's, or LB's, murder.

Then again, I'm a cynic. I see MS as someone exhibits a different, but equally dangerous, kind of crazy. Someone who allegedly had a dislocated shoulder, fell drunk over the weekend, and still agreed, by all appearances eagerly and of his own volition, for money or cheap thrills, to help DM steal TB's truck on Monday evening. Later than night, he assisted DM in burning TB's body and returned home the next morning with his girlfriend no worse for wear. MS may not have been physically present at the time of murder (which I doubt) or shot TB, but if we are to believe the hangar video, he had no qualms hiding all pertinent evidence of the murder and disengaging himself from such a gruesome endeavour to happily attend his sister's wedding. Takes a "special" kind of person, who's also less inclined to admit his wrongdoings in court, to do this. MOO.

 

[brightii]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...y-treated-me-as-though-i-were-hannibal-lecter


BBM
- I don't believe they've introduced the Sept 16th letter but I wonder if DM got access to mind-altering substances. Barton St. jail has had 6 overdose deaths since 2012 so drugs are coming in.
- Curious to know DM's thoughts now on whether anything was missed by forensics.
- Setting up test drive via burner phone, hiding his own vehicle and going at night/barely looking over truck = indications of intent to buy? Sure Melon.
- I think DM is happy AM moved the stuff, otherwise police would have the gun right now. I wish we had more clarity on who DM told about the toolbox. According to MH, he got it from DM and didn't know what was inside. According to AM, MS requested the drugs from the house and what was given to MH. According to MS's crew, he neither wanted nor was expecting the gun.
- Amazing how easy it is for DM to express his (so called) feelings about his buddies, but it takes facing life in prison to be able to say it to his longtime girlfriend.

I wouldn't be surprised if down the road, DM tries to write his own book about the case like OJ's If I Did It.

bbm I agree Jash, DM may very well take on a new mission behind bars by writing about the crime and how he was set-up by his despicable missionaries. It would be filled with tall tales of intrigue, betrayals, and conspiracy theories all embellished with his signature writing style, and of course he would be the sole victim of unfortunate circumstances, IMO. No doubt that DM thinks he is a gifted writer! He has no insight at all, IMO.

All MOO.

ETA: http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/research-library/profiting-from-crime-laws-against/ It's good to know that DM could not profit from a book that recounts the murder of TB, if DM is convicted. I wonder if DM would bother if he couldn't capitalize on his story being written or would the attention he would attract to himself be adequate currency for DM?

 

[Errrr]

Hi Errr .... I am not defending him per say ..... its more of a description of his personality (and I could be wrong) ..... let me put it another way , many psychopaths go into business and become wealthy .... it often depends who mentored them or who they hung around with.

And yes , you are right , if DM had gone into a legitimate business he would be the same .... manipulate people , act civilized and polite , and pour on the charm to get what he wants. And if he manufactured or sold products that killed half his customers he wouldn't care about them any more than he cared about TB.

Yes, I think if he had not had access to so much money and the time to pursue his worst interests without limits or oversight, he might have become a politician or a lawyer.

 

[Elisabeth]

bbm I agree Jash, DM may very well take on a new mission behind bars by writing about the crime and how he was set-up by his despicable missionaries. It would be filled with tall tales of intrigue, betrayals, and conspiracy theories all embellished with his signature writing style, and of course he would be the sole victim of unfortunate circumstances, IMO. No doubt that DM thinks he is a gifted writer! He has no insight at all, IMO.

All MOO.

ETA: http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/research-library/profiting-from-crime-laws-against/ It's good to know that DM could not profit from a book that recounts the murder of TB, if DM is convicted. I wonder if DM would bother if he couldn't capitalize on his story being written or would the attention he would attract to himself be adequate currency for DM?

and I wonder how he will explain away the court laughing at his purple prose.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I just started a new poll. I promise I won't go crazy on the polls. But the question is this: who do you think shot TB? DM or MS?