Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[artemis17]

Do we have an idea why MS wasn't with him all the way through and help him move the incinerator and all that?

 

[tommyR]

Hah, ya think? He must be squirming so badly that these were found. Why on earth did he admit he wrote them??

A hand writing analyst with this much material to work with would have little trouble finding the author to be DM. And the last thing DM's side needs is another forensic expert pointing the finger at them. So it's my opinion that admitting to the letters is a cooperative move on evidence that is impossible to defend.

 

[MsSherlock]

This is why I think a lawyer helped. I don't know how Hamilton jails work, but find it hard to believe it's any differnt then other jails. You go in, show ID, get buzzed through a steal door, take a seat and talk on phones with glass between visitor and inmate. Mommy's don't have special privilege! My mother didn't either and dad was in for something supid, not murder! The only way mommy rabbit could pass CN'S letters directly, would be for DM to read them up against the glass.

I haven't made it past this post yet, so not sure if anyone that's familiar with Hamilton jail answered this yet. Sorry in advance as I read on

AFAIK, guards are on the lookout for anything coming and going out of prison. Letters are allowed, but they go thru a screening process because not only can those letters contain information in concern to criminal activities, they could also be containing drugs nestled in the folds of the letters. I understand that inmate mail is source documented and incoming/outgoing mail is opened & briefly scanned by prison guards. IMO, I tend to go along with other posters on this. Due to the shear volume of letters that went between the accused and someone on his "no-contact" list, it doesn't sit right that these were just being given to his mother during her visits. LW says she visited him about 5 times- perhaps some came out in accounting materials headed to or from MB. The second avenue would be someone who the guards didn't have the right to check because of client privilege. If the letter was addressed to someone on the no contact list, I doubt any lawyer would carry them out, however, if the letter was addressed to the mother of the accused, the lawyer wouldn't really be breaking any laws. Take that one step further and already have an understanding with mom that all the letters she gets are actually intended for CN and you've got a perfect little scheme happening by DM. In DM's eyes, no one is doing anything wrong. MOO

 

[billandrew]

Why did DM admit to writing the letters?

 

[Mrs. M]

Why did DM admit to writing the letters?

Anytime a defendant stipulates in a trial, I think the jury appreciates it. They don't all have to sit through handwriting experts which would slow the pace down and making the state or crown prove what is obvious is like giving them a win. Millard likes to win. This is my opinion only, but I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote some of the letters in anticipation that they would be read in court some day. He only told her to destroy the letter when he was trying to get her to convince Michalski to change his testimony. The letters when he puts the blame on Smich, he is probably happy the jury is hearing it.

 

[MsSherlock]

Why did DM admit to writing the letters?

IMHO, DM was once again showing the world that he is an upfront, out in the open type of guy who has absolutely nothing to hide!!! I actually asked myself that same question and then realized that he really didn't have a choice. If he denied writing them, he wouldn't be going along with the D's theme. It was a nice touch having him admit to something- obviously P & S feel that the letters contain some stuff that they'll be able to use- like what a great guy DM is, MS did it, MS is a drug addict, DM was taken advantage of. Having those statements contained in these "intimate" letters could lead people into believing that it's all DM's candid truths. MOO

 

[LoyalSleuth]

I agree completely with Mrs. M & MsSherlock...
Just to top up also, MS admitted he was on the test drive with Igor, so I guess DM thought he better admit to something too, just to balance out their credibility...

 

[mimimic]

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

Why does he say that it is MS's mess at all?

 

[NashBridges2]

She could have just as easily said she was so tired she slept all the way there. IMO Now she has a reputation.

Yeahs, reputation for giving oral sex while her boyfriend drives. My bet is she said it for attention, for the male jurors. All she needs is one....

 

[Elisabeth]

He can be found guilty of first degree murder even if he was following in the other truck. The evidence of co-conspiring a plot to steal and murder suggests that he was fully engaged. imo

First degree murder as well for murder during forcible confinement. Even if MS (Or DM) wasn't in the truck and therefore didn't get blood in the SUV, you can have two people outside of the truck holding a gun on Tim Bosma in the truck and they both guilty of forcible confinement.

But why prep the eliminator? why bring tape etc? (sorry was it tape MS asked for?)

Why say you need an all nighter? Why be happy the next morning that the mission was a success.... they were both happy....they were both in on the discussion of Eliminator

Experts can't place the shooter and yet people here can? It isn't even necessary.

 

[Elisabeth]

Why does he say that it is MS's mess at all?

He said all sorts of nonsense in those letters. He is one big WHY? In my opinion.

 

[Elisabeth]

IMHO, DM was once again showing the world that he is an upfront, out in the open type of guy who has absolutely nothing to hide!!! I actually asked myself that same question and then realized that he really didn't have a choice. If he denied writing them, he wouldn't be going along with the D's theme. It was a nice touch having him admit to something- obviously P & S feel that the letters contain some stuff that they'll be able to use- like what a great guy DM is, MS did it, MS is a drug addict, DM was taken advantage of. Having those statements contained in these "intimate" letters could lead people into believing that it's all DM's candid truths. MOO

MS is the drug addict but CN talks about how stoned she and DM were.

 

[mimimic]

IMO, it's all part of the manipulation process: the buy in. This was DM's story and he wanted to make sure CN knew the "real story" - he was just being his regular nice guy self trying to help MS clean up a mess MS created when they were simply trying to steal a truck. All he was trying to do was play CN. "I love you- I miss you- you're beautiful- you're "my" secret agent"- "please have my baby"- "MS is a drug addict"- "I was just helping MS clean up his mess"- "I didn't realize how monogamous I wanted to be until I got in here" . Maybe or MS screwed up HOW he was to do his part in the shooting.

Seems like they redacted many sections of the letters, so IMHO, it's hard to say how much sick manipulation was actually contained in his prose. MOO

Maybe or MS screwed up HOW he was to do his part in the shooting.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

Probably to convince her that he is not a murderer and she should stay with him.

 

[redwing7225]

As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it on people who make him 'angry', DM or MS? MS, that's who. Both these guys are total cowards, they would never confront someone with a gun, they would shoot from behind, and only one of them was behind.

I think the only thing that makes people think DM pulled the gun is schadenfreude. It feels better for some people to want the spoiled rich kid to go to prison for a long time, rather than the troubled loser. And they don't want the spoiled rich kid to 'get away' with anything, since he's obviously a thief and a narcissitic jerk.

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

BBM: Sorry if this has been questioned, still trying to catch up...
single clean fatal headshot, only one shot fired - is this fact? i personally have questioned how many shots were fired since the day DM glared at MS when the shell casing was mentioned during testimony (my apologies, can't recall the day). IMO, if it was MS job to clean up the truck, there's the possibility that MS may not have been in the truck during the shooting, found a casing, removed it and job complete. DM may have fired 2 shots and didn't inform MS. (just thought the glare/glance to MS was odd)
who raps about his gun and using it...there's many writers out there who don't act on what they write (imo) e.g. E.L. James must be busy in the bedroom if she is writing as per experiance
due to the fact one shot fired...again, is this fact, if so, i have missed this information somewhere.

I haven't the foggiest clue as to where i stand in the case, there was a great deal of information provided through the letters, forensics, video, etc. It isn't my intent to jump onto this post, imo you seem certain of a couple of things that haven't been proven in court (that i have read). Again, i may have missed information along the way, my apologies in advance if that is the case. all my opinion.

 

[mimimic]

After all this with the letters ect...I am thinking DM pulled the trigger of MS's gun...MS was in the Yukon at the time of the shot(s) fired. GSR found all over the RAM truck....but non was found in the Yukon?? (if I remember correctly)....shooting in the truck produced a high concentration of GSR....pulling a tigger even more....pulling a trigger then moving back to the Yukon would have transferred high concetrations of GSR in the Yukon.
The plan was to steal and kill...Only MS was called to the "mission" because the plan was for the seller to never come home.
MS was tasked with cleaning the RAM truck (which he failed at), manning the incinerator (which he likely didn't do properly as per DM's instruction).
MS likely couldn't keep up after it all went down....so DM was scrambling.
CN was the only person he could reach out to in an attempt to manipulate and try to save his .
While CN is guilty after the fact - of going along with him ect, she is "not over him" in the least and may never be. She did not "end" the relationship on her terms - an arrest prematurely did....over time and with age she maybe would have came to her senses and likely grown apart from him. She has no closure and will continue to be drawn to him until she finally finds what she is looking for in some else...that will be hard. When they are both in jail I would assume they could write each other.... When she is out and he is still in I would suspect she will visit.

All MOO on a Friday am.

Thinking of the Bosma's today and always...it could have been any family...my husband even. She had it right. The devil smiled at her before taking Tim away....chilling

Wow I never considered that!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

IMO, everthing in these letters are DM "suggesting" not true facts. He's back peddling and trying to save his AZZ and keep CN loving and believing in him.

We also shouldn't forget, DM was getting information about the case. He wrote about MS'S F***'d up because he (DM) knew that's what MM and MS already said. He's used this to his advantage and adding "I just helped clean up his mess" to make it look more believable.
I still think the F***'d up was MS didn't restraint TB good enough and TB got out of the shabby tape job (MS asked for gloves and tape) Opening suggested a struggle inside the tuck before TB was shot. Then DM shot TB in the struggle while MS drove the Yukon behind them (MM tesimony to MS couldnt talk because was driving). IMO, that's why they pulled into the Bobcat parking lot.

MM testified to MS'S shoulder problem, DM wrote about his shoulder problem. Coincidence? I doubt it!

The toolbox, "Mark gave Dell a toolbox but Dell wasn't sure if Mark told him the combination" that this is what the cops already know. Ya, the LE knows because that's what DM told them. again, this is what he was hoping CN would testify to. Another suggestion by DM. He was also assuring he'd make sure that CN was safe on the stand, that her testimony would line up.

DM wanted everyone to lie and tamper with evidence, his words were being composed in hopes CN would help him. He was suggesting what she should do and say. He was talking in a way she'd understand it but being causious incase the letter writings were discovered in the transits. JMO

I was wondering why LE arrested AM, but makes sense...DM was trying to pin it on AM and MS. Hey CN, look for those pics on FB, they may help with the plan. That backfired when AM "S**T his pants" and told all. DM then had to back peddle to convince AM to change his words. Maybe he thought AM was stupid...oh right DM did say that AM was "slow"! And not know the reason behind his (AM) arrest. MOO

I think reading between the lines on all these letters is a good idea just because DM wrote those words, don't mean they are true statements.

All MOO and JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Probably to convince her that he is not a murderer and she should stay with him.

I like the part where CN (who btw wasn't following the case at all) see's the letter from D on a Facebook forum. DM then goes into damage control about how D is going to bring her friends to Court for support and that's why he should maintain contact with her. According to DM the Jury can be swayed by the number of supporters the accused has. :cheer:I sure hope that getting to trial didn't drag on to long and D and her supporters couldn't wait any longer. The sooner D and her supporters do their magic, AM changes "steal" to "buy" and "treacherous Mark" goes away for life, the sooner CN and him can set sail around the world on their baby making expedition. Chances are poor DM would return home from that trip single- crying to MB that CN fell overboard. Oh such tragedy. MOO

 

[lclabtech]

So we really need to look at the "planning a murder" aspect. Do you think there is enough to prove premeditated murder? An if so, what evidence are you considering as most damaging for the accused?

- references to preparing BBQ/generator
- telling Smich to bring a change of clothes
- post-mission actions -- if you went into a robbery and killing someone wasn't part of the plan, boy are they nonchalant about it. Doesn't really sound like a "successful mission" but his texts and how they behaved in front of of MM pointed to that.
- telling CN that if the mission to steal the truck goes as planned, it'll be an all nighter. Why? We know what they did all night. They cleaned the blood, burned the body.

There's probably others but those are off the top of my head.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

IMO, everthing in these letters are DM "suggesting" not true facts. He's back peddling and trying to save his AZZ and keep CN loving and believing in him.

We also shouldn't forget, DM was getting information about the case. He wrote about MS'S F***'d up because he (DM) knew that's what MM and MS already said. He's used this to his advantage and adding "I just helped clean up his mess" to make it look more believable.
I still think the F***'d up was MS didn't restraint TB good enough and TB got out of the shabby tape job (MS asked for gloves and tape) Opening suggested a struggle inside the tuck before TB was shot.

MM testified to MS'S shoulder problem, DM wrote about his shoulder problem. Coincidence? I doubt it!

The toolbox, "Mark gave Dell a toolbox but Dell wasn't sure if Mark told him the combination" that this is what the cops already know. Ya, the LE knows because that's what DM told them. again, this is what he was hoping CN would testify to. Another suggestion by DM. He was also assuring he'd make sure that CN was safe on the stand, that her testimony would line up.

DM wanted everyone to lie and tamper with evidence, his words were being composed in hopes CN would help him. He was suggesting what she should do and say. He was talking in a way she'd understand it but being causious incase the letter writings were discovered in the transits. JMO

I was wondering why LE arrested AM, but makes sense...DM was trying to pin it on AM and MS. Hey CN, look for those pics on FB, they may help with the plan. That backfired when AM "S**T his pants" and told all. DM then had to back peddle to convince AM to change his words. Maybe he thought AM was stupid...oh right DM did say that AM was "slow"! And not know the reason behind his (AM) arrest. MOO

I think reading between the lines on all these letters is a good idea just because DM wrote those words, don't mean they are true statements.

All MOO and JMO

I continue to believe that MS did not pull the trigger (at least without being ordered to), and not because I feel some sympathy toward him or feel in some ways he wouldn't do that. Rather, he was the minion, and in the dynamic of their relationship with DM, DM ALWAYS called the shots (no pun intended). Mark would not be "authorized" to act on his own in that way, unless DM instructed him to. There is a chance MS might have pulled the trigger if somehow TB broke loose of the bonds and was fighting DM while DM was driving....DM may have ordered Mark to shoot at that point.

Further, because DM was the mastermind, and the primary beneficiary of each mission, MS would not have likely risked doing something so serious as killing someone for Dell when he was just getting paid a relatively small stipend to assist.

So, it's my belief, MS did not pull the trigger, or, if he did, it was under direct order from DM in a situation where MS had little choice, or under total mental submission to DM's manipulative mastery.