Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[hellkat2]

The thing that is still lacking about Smich is his motive. Millard is getting a $20k truck, while all we hear about Smich is that he might have got $300? Smich isn't the brightest bulb in the box, and if this plan was to include murder from the beginning, I can't imagine home settling for such a ridiculously low cut.

We've heard talk of the Caddy being his payment, but why wouldn't Millard just sell the caddy and buy the truck? There is a text the morning of the 6th to MM where he says "I got a ride now". This seems an odd thing to say because he doesn't drive, of course he has a ride if he's on his way. Could he have meant that he had a car now?

I'm sure will find out more from one or both of the defence presentations.


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smich was in love with DM. They were going to live happily ever after and DM was gonna make DM a rapper. Come on....there is the motive. Follow the money. Smich in it for the long term. He was already latched on to Dellen mallard and pictures himself livin large with DM on DM's coat tails.

 

[hellkat2]

.

Not defending CN or MB but if they began to suspect the trailer was used by DM in a crime they would be wise to remove their own fingerprints .... after all they were not involved with the truck theft were they ??

I found an abandoned vehicle on one of my properties and looked in the glove box for the owner registration (wasn't there) so I called the cops and reported it

Turns out it was a stolen car that was used in a robbery and now it had my prints on it ..... I had to supply cops with my prints so they could eliminate mine from the others. I lost a whole day of work and if I had to do it over I would have used gloves or wiped my prints off and told the cops I never touched it. They also kept my fingerprints on file which was not a problem because I have never been involved in crime and have nothing to fear ..... but I objected because normally only criminals have their prints in police files and I was not one

You obviously did the right thing, considering what is happening with CN and MB. These two secret agents should have done the right thing and they wouldn't be in the deep doo doo they are in right now.

 

[hippy_chic]

I agree with you that DM likely was the shooter, and that is why MS did not get any gsr in the yukon, nor any blood. I cannot understand why, if DM's fingerprints are on the gun, MS does not reveal the location of the gun to prove it was not him who held it, and shot TB. Would this not help his case, and improve his chances of getting convicted of second degree murder ? IMO

Could be several reasons MS won't give up the location of the gun. I would assume MS handled the gun after it was delivered in the toolbox...so it would likely have his prints on it...possibly in addition to DM's prints. If they have both handled the gun during or previous to the crime, it could have both of their fingerprints on it. If either of them had loaded the gun at any time, both of their prints could be on the clip inside the gun. Who knows...maybe they both took a shot TB...in case they were caught, they'd have equal culpability, & be less likely to testify against the other. MOO

 

[hellkat2]

I agree with you that DM likely was the shooter, and that is why MS did not get any gsr in the yukon, nor any blood. I cannot understand why, if DM's fingerprints are on the gun, MS does not reveal the location of the gun to prove it was not him who held it, and shot TB. Would this not help his case, and improve his chances of getting convicted of second degree murder ? IMO

I guess the only reason I can think of is because it may be that Smich knows that his own greasy finger prints are on that gun. Although.....I go back to ....there were two guns. They both had a gun. So ....

 

[hellkat2]

I agree with this - DM starts his here's what we're going to say and we need to be aligned thinking in the letters AFTER he got disclosure and saw MM said MS Effed Up. DM also only then after getting disclosure started to pretend HE had the bum shoulder. Everything he and CN are up to are lies trying to get herself and DM out. Also - she says she gave DM a 45 min on the car ride?? Something tells me that will be her defense as to how her DNA got on the gloves in DM's pocket.

Again - I can't understand the following:
- How did the letters get out of jail? If lawyer (which explains why lawyer change happened), why not charged?
- Why didnt DM get charged for being in contact with CN?
- Will MB (DM mom) be charged for tampering with evidence?
- What lies/inconsistencies are we seeing from AM's testimony given this new light? The other guy who cried made it clear the two men didnt agree on their memories of the events... which leads me to believe AM (on DM payroll) made up some lies to incriminate MS (even down to the hoodie which MM claimed was always a grey one)
- Why was toolbox guy laughing when DM dropped it off but crying on stand? What are we missing here?
- If we know DM started to make up (make believe) a defense based on disclosure, how will the crown be able to tear down the lies? If he's a psychopath (which I assume he is) I have no doubt he is probably itching to get up on the stand, sing and dance, enjoy the spotlight and tell grand tales of what "really happened"
- Since we see that DM's clearly lying, and asking everyone else (AM, CN) to lie and change their stories, why is anyone even taking his "Mark Effed up" seriously? Why in the world would DM do extra evidence clean up and leave evidence on his property if his goony screwed up? Feels like DM was always in control - even of the clean up.
- If the two defense strategies will be to point fingers at eachother, how is the jury supposed to make an assessment? just call them both guilty and call it a day?

If Smich f'd up....why didn't DM call 911 and do the right thing?

 

[hellkat2]

Could be several reasons MS won't give up the location of the gun. I would assume MS handled the gun after it was delivered in the toolbox...so it would likely have his prints on it...possibly in addition to DM's prints. If they have both handled the gun during or previous to the crime, it could have both of their fingerprints on it. If either of them had loaded the gun at any time, both of their prints could be on the clip inside the gun. Who knows...maybe they both took a shot TB...in case they were caught, they'd have equal culpability, & be less likely to testify against the other. MOO

Do they need the prints? The gun would be enuf in those gun experts hands to say that it matched that casing etc.

 

[hippy_chic]

Do they need the prints? The gun would be enuf in those gun experts hands to say that it matched that casing etc.

Experts would be able to match the casing with the gun, but fingerprints would tell the story of who fired the weapon. MOO

 

[redwing7225]

.

Not defending CN or MB but if they began to suspect the trailer was used by DM in a crime they would be wise to remove their own fingerprints .... after all they were not involved with the truck theft were they ??

I found an abandoned vehicle on one of my properties and looked in the glove box for the owner registration (wasn't there) so I called the cops and reported it

Turns out it was a stolen car that was used in a robbery and now it had my prints on it ..... I had to supply cops with my prints so they could eliminate mine from the others. I lost a whole day of work and if I had to do it over I would have used gloves or wiped my prints off and told the cops I never touched it. They also kept my fingerprints on file which was not a problem because I have never been involved in crime and have nothing to fear ..... but I objected because normally only criminals have their prints in police files and I was not one

Been there Arnie M...a company vehicle was broken into at our home, $10000 worth of tools stolen, we had to do fingerprints as well. On the positive, the police will never come knocking on your door with the assumption of involvement :fence:

 

[hellkat2]

I agree with this - DM starts his here's what we're going to say and we need to be aligned thinking in the letters AFTER he got disclosure and saw MM said MS Effed Up. DM also only then after getting disclosure started to pretend HE had the bum shoulder. Everything he and CN are up to are lies trying to get herself and DM out. Also - she says she gave DM a 45 min on the car ride?? Something tells me that will be her defense as to how her DNA got on the gloves in DM's pocket.

Again - I can't understand the following:
- How did the letters get out of jail? If lawyer (which explains why lawyer change happened), why not charged?
- Why didnt DM get charged for being in contact with CN?
- Will MB (DM mom) be charged for tampering with evidence?
- What lies/inconsistencies are we seeing from AM's testimony given this new light? The other guy who cried made it clear the two men didnt agree on their memories of the events... which leads me to believe AM (on DM payroll) made up some lies to incriminate MS (even down to the hoodie which MM claimed was always a grey one)
- Why was toolbox guy laughing when DM dropped it off but crying on stand? What are we missing here?
- If we know DM started to make up (make believe) a defense based on disclosure, how will the crown be able to tear down the lies? If he's a psychopath (which I assume he is) I have no doubt he is probably itching to get up on the stand, sing and dance, enjoy the spotlight and tell grand tales of what "really happened"
- Since we see that DM's clearly lying, and asking everyone else (AM, CN) to lie and change their stories, why is anyone even taking his "Mark Effed up" seriously? Why in the world would DM do extra evidence clean up and leave evidence on his property if his goony screwed up? Feels like DM was always in control - even of the clean up.
- If the two defense strategies will be to point fingers at eachother, how is the jury supposed to make an assessment? just call them both guilty and call it a day?

Maybe the jail was giving them enuf rope to hang themselves. Can they do that? At the direction of the police????

 

[hellkat2]

Could be several reasons MS won't give up the location of the gun. I would assume MS handled the gun after it was delivered in the toolbox...so it would likely have his prints on it...possibly in addition to DM's prints. If they have both handled the gun during or previous to the crime, it could have both of their fingerprints on it. If either of them had loaded the gun at any time, both of their prints could be on the clip inside the gun. Who knows...maybe they both took a shot TB...in case they were caught, they'd have equal culpability, & be less likely to testify against the other. MOO

Wouldn't you think these two geniuses would have wiped the gun clean?

 

[matou]

Maybe CN was at Isho's with DM getting gun lessons. DM was there for a few hours and I believe that he sent CN a photo of the gun on Valentine's Day. I'm pretty sure he would have wanted to hang with his girl on that day. JMO

 

[ABro]

She does not seem to hold back from talking about DM's actions. Her lack of memory has only really been around things that would incriminate her. She is most definitely not telling the whole story but it's about saving herself. I am sure for some time after his arrest, she was still in love with him or at least the idea of it all and it went way too far for her to see a way to get herself out of it. IMO, what she is saying and remembering are not things that are showing loyalty to DM. She can't tell a different story at this trial about knowing full well about the murder and the plan that night and then say she didn't know anything at her own trial. The evidence in this trial can't be used in her trial but it can be used to impeach her.

Yes, but she doesn't have to testify at her own trial. And based on her performance at this trial, no lawyer is going to put her on the stand at her own trial.

 

[hellkat2]

This theory could explain why the lawyer changed occurred and why they waited so long to go to trial.... but wouldn't the lawyer have been charged? And why wasn't DM charged for communicating with CN if she was on his do-not-contact? seems fishy.

CN and MB were likely under surveillance and they were giving them enough rope by the police to see where it would take the investigation? Is this the kind of things they do in their police work?

 

[hellkat2]

Well other than the death occurred during a forcible confinement (TB never exited that vehicle of his own free will) there is the fact that neither accused has offered up any plausible explanation to LE at the time of the killing or even at the time of their subsequent arrests, without benefit of discovery, that indicates the other was absolutely responsible for the killing. So the default seems to be that each is also capable (2 guns?) of having committed this murder simultaneously. And if that is not enough, there is also evidence that the murder may have been premeditated by both of them

3 strikes and you're out?

MOO

I want them to prove what happened whether it be planned or not planned. The Bosma's need the truth about what happened and why on the night they lost their Tim. In order for closure this is something any family member in my opinion would want. It doesn't matter whether it was 1st degree or second degree. I think they would want to know how, when and why. Did he suffer, did he see it coming? They deserve at least this. From these lying bunch of thieves.

 

[hellkat2]

BBM "All" the evidence? What about that pesky concentration of gunshot residue in the front, closer to the driver's side? Cartridge ejected from the right side of the gun (which is towards the back in the case of a front seat shooter.) MOO

i agree....I don't understand how the majority think DM did it. I think it is because they want it to be First Degree. I wonder if it would have been better to have DM's father's trial and the Babcock trial before the Bosma trial. If that would have made a difference.

 

[aawaterloo]

- references to preparing BBQ/generator
- telling Smich to bring a change of clothes
- post-mission actions -- if you went into a robbery and killing someone wasn't part of the plan, boy are they nonchalant about it. Doesn't really sound like a "successful mission" but his texts and how they behaved in front of of MM pointed to that.
- telling CN that if the mission to steal the truck goes as planned, it'll be an all nighter. Why? We know what they did all night. They cleaned the blood, burned the body.

There's probably others but those are off the top of my head.

And don't forget they took a loaded gun on the "test drive".
DM and his minions had already stolen a bobcat, a motorcycle, lawnmowers and quite possibly other vehicles. If the plan was to simply steal a truck, they could have easily done it in the middle of the night like many of their previous missions.
They planned and went prepared. Murder was always on the cards. My views only.

 

[Dutchman]

First time poster here. Followed WS from when TB first went missing. Great thought processes. Here's a thought is it plausible that DM never thought CN would destroy the letters. This is his way of twisting his version? Not knowing what's in the letters of course. Just a thought.

 

[hellkat2]

First time poster here. Followed WS from when TB first went missing. Great thought processes. Here's a thought is it plausible that DM never thought CN would destroy the letters. This is his way of twisting his version? Not knowing what's in the letters of course. Just a thought.

Totally crossed my mind. DM and his two secret agents.

 

[Kamille]

First time poster here. Followed WS from when TB first went missing. Great thought processes. Here's a thought is it plausible that DM never thought CN would destroy the letters. This is his way of twisting his version? Not knowing what's in the letters of course. Just a thought.

Welcome Dutchman :welcome:

I really don't think DM and MB expected any action by CN that didn't include thoroughly destroying those letters. She even apparently left some with MB to destroy. Plus he knew all of hers to him were being destroyed for him. There is some pretty damning information in those letters, along with a lot of blubbering nonsense that even he probably can't believe he wrote as he's sitting there in the courtroom listening to them being read out loud.

I wonder if MS has been having a hard time not showing either outright anger at the parts about him or laughing out loud at the absurdity of the manipulation in those writings.

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

First time poster here. Followed WS from when TB first went missing. Great thought processes. Here's a thought is it plausible that DM never thought CN would destroy the letters. This is his way of twisting his version? Not knowing what's in the letters of course. Just a thought.

I think DM was quite accustomed to getting what he wanted because those around him were willing to do whatever he asked, for the benefits being close to DM provided. That said, I think once he was in jail on these heinous charges, his spell began to wear off for certain folks and he likely continued to over-estimate his importance. It's impossible to know for sure of course, but I don't think DM ever wanted those letters to see the light of day, the way they are now.

moo. (by the way, welcome to the forum)