Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[ArianeEmory]

No I don't think so. According to MM, his payment for missions was always in money. So I don't see this one being any different.

Not only that, but I feel like we recently learned that MS was only going to receive $300 for the Dodge theft?

 

[Errrr]

On what are you basing the statement "it was MS's gun"?

I don't have links in front of me, but I thought we heard testimony about DM buying a walther .380 from MWJ for $1200, same caliber as the shell casing? (I am open to correction if I've got this wrong.) And in the past I've seen posts that DM bought a concealed .380 holster on eBay. (I don't believe that part came up in the trial.)

Miranda16 asks up thread how we know DM drove the Dodge, I feel like this is something we're pretty solid on but I can't remember why. Is it because he told SS he drove it while sitting on a crate or something? He also had the Dodge key on his keyring. But wasn't there something else?

Edited to add: on the "I f'd up" comment. You know how sometimes when people say "I'm sorry " they really mean "I'm sorry I got caught"?

I think this was MS's moment of regret for being involved with killing TB, and to a large degree it was regret because he knew then he was going to be caught.

Still personally undecided on who pulled the trigger, but the GSR was over the driver's seat, and DM drove away from the Bosmas' house, and he was the one with $1200 to buy an illegal handgun.

Didn't MS tell his friend the gun was his?
Wasn't there video evidence from the Masonry company showing a tall guy pull up in Tims truck and get out?

 

[Dutchman]

Perhaps DM might have bought the truck if he could have used one of his many (daddy) plastic cards. Seems to me that he was willing to pay for just about everything with a credit card. But when it came to cash... It was a problem. Jmo

 

[swedie]

Do we have an idea why MS wasn't with him all the way through and help him move the incinerator and all that?

My guess would be because of his sister's upcoming wedding and plans of suit fitting, helping to do other wedding preparations, rehearsal. Or maybe he deliberately stayed away because he feared DM by that time. The Thursday MS and MM were at the hangar briefly, was it because DM said he would pick MS up to give him his reward and MS brought MM along for protection of sorts? If DM was the actual shooter, MS was stuck between a rock and a hard place. How was he to go to LE knowing full well he was present when LB was murdered and did not go to LE then? MOO.

 

[hopingforjustice]

DM believing that he'd be a better dad in prison than most men on the outside? This guy is still obviously toking in jail. Cracks me up to think that DM actually believed that a young, good looking, well educated woman like CN would actually be interested in procreating with a guy locked up for life and sharing romantic evenings in the prison trailer. This guy is so insane. MOO

I agree...but at the same time I think she is just as twisted and would have LOVED a romp in the trailer just for the "experience".

 

[ArianeEmory]

Didn't MS tell his friend the gun was his?
Wasn't there video evidence from the Masonry company showing a tall guy pull up in Tims truck and get out?

I don't know which friend you mean. If you mean when he was trying to sell it to get money for a lawyer, I don't specifically recall him claiming he owned it, but I guess it's good to pretend you own something you're trying to sell. Maybe someone else with links will chime in.

I don't know where MS would have gotten money to buy what he considered to be a $1000 gun when he was living off DM's charity to get his cellphone bills paid and whatnot.

As far as I know there are only a few confusing pieces of testimony that give the impression of two guns, but only pictures of one (the walther). Again, if anyone has different info, I'll be the first to admit I am going by shaky memory.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I agree...but at the same time I think she is just as twisted and would have LOVED a romp in the trailer just for the "experience".

You just reminded me of the mattresses and other furniture in DM's actual trailer.

 

[Arnie M]

So far I am seeing most people believe the "I f*&*'d up" comment to believe that MS is saying he shot TB. What if it just means something like that he had certain jobs to do within this mission to ensure its success and he failed on something he was supposed to do. And that failure resulted in their master plan going awry. Maybe they didn't plan to kill TB. Maybe they were going to leave him stranded somewhere and MS got stuck in red lights or made a wrong turn and got lost and that left DM alone with "no choice" but to kill TB. Or that he was supposed to do the killing and missed or his gun jammed and that forced DM to do it., All I am just saying that I don't believe that MS stating that he "f&*&'d up" necessarily means that he did the killing. It could mean any number of things. They are both still guilty in my mind either way..

My thoughts are along that line too ....... DM was to do the driving and MS was to shoot the victim in the back of the head with mushroom-fragmenting-zombie ammo that does not exit the body (no mess) .... and either the headrest was in the way and he tried it from the left rear seat and missed or wounded TB and then had to take several more shots which broke the window and caused wounds that bled onto the seats and carpets .... or he first tried to shoot thru the foam padded headrest which would have slowed the bullet right down and it only caused injuries at first.

That would also concur with DM telling CN he had to clean up Mark's Mess ..... it would certainly be an F-Up by MS because they ended up having to work all night removing seats and carpets and cleaning up blood from the interior instead of just parking the truck somewhere or send it to the paint shop or whatever ...... and because of all that extra work and the time involved the partly stripped truck was still sitting on a tarp in the hangar to be seen and noticed by the employee who called crime stoppers.

I think Mark's Mess was the big F-Up ..... there is no way they anticipated or planned to contaminate the interior like that ..... it fits with the whole zombie-ammo purpose .... a small 9mm entrance wound and no exit wounds and the truck interior could remain intact.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Perhaps DM might have bought the truck if he could have used one of his many (daddy) plastic cards. Seems to me that he was willing to pay for just about everything with a credit card. But when it came to cash... It was a problem. Jmo

Randomly but ...

At least where I am, car dealerships won't take credit cards because of the huge transaction fees they'd have to eat. But I don't see why he couldn't get a car loan like a normal person. He was able to buy real estate, his credit must have been decent.

Edit: up thread, what's this about 9mm ammo, I thought the casing was .380.

Edit 2: that moment when you realize it's 11pm and you are effectively posting to yourself.

 

[don_quixote]

Horrible crime and such a tragedy.

Just joined WS, but following for a while. I've been wondering about that: it seems that they each had a gun, so where is the second gun? Were there actually 2 guns in the toolbox? DM texted '2' back in response to the MH question about guns didn't he? Did MS actually bury 2 guns? If not wouldn't the police have found a second one in one of the searched properties?

other things I'm wondering about:
- it seems to be a common theory that MS was driving the Yukon on the evening of the murder. Why is that? Couldn't it have been DM driving it? Any clues either way?
- I think the murder was planned and both knew in advance, but I agree with the posters who said that they could have originally been planning to force TB out of the truck at the farm (to avoid crime scene in the stolen truck)
- if they had gone ahead with an assault on IT during the first test drive, how would they have carried it out? It was during daylight hours (in a more populated area) and further from the farm. In that case wouldn't they have had to attack him in broad daylight in the truck?
- I assume that more of the gang besides MS could have realized that DM's crimes were escalating beyond just theft. E.g. I'm sure that SS knew more and maybe (likely?) CN. The incinerator could only have had a sinister purpose (this proves long-term planning of evil acts by DM and I assume it was used with LB?).
- who amongst the friends would believe that a truck would be stolen following a test drive? Wouldn't they have just stolen it at night if theft was the goal? To a thief would showing your face to the victim be worth it in exchange for verifying the operability of the truck in a test drive? Wouldn't it cause suspicion if a truck for sale was stolen after a test drive (while owner is away or asleep)? I'm Asking not because I think this was intended but because DM would need to be confident that the non-insiders would 'buy-in' to the theft idea (as SS pretended to do with the talk that DM 'bought' a hot truck)
- why did DM keep the murder weapon(s) initially after the murder? Why not convince MS to take them immediately if he wanted to frame him if necessary (maybe he was so confident of his invincibility that he wanted to retain them for the next 'mission'?
- was TB shot before or after they retrieved the Yukon? Good theories by posters that the Yukon driver was 'clean' and therefore TB was shot after MS and DM retrieved the Yukon, but I think it is a risky move for a driver to try to shoot a passenger at close quarters in the front seat. E.g. a desperate/brave victim could try to grab the gun arm. Maybe that's what happened and the shooter got the shot off fast, but it is a risky move for a shooter and I'm not sure that DM or MS would risk it. I would think that they wanted both to be present during the shooting to make sure that the victim could not turn the tables on a single assailant.
- they could have tried to order TB out of the truck, intending to restrain him with tape, retrieve the Yukon, and then bring him to the farm to murder him (as someone suggested) but he fought back at this stage before they could force him out of the truck? Maybe but wouldn't most people cooperate with a gunman, thinking that cooperation would get them released?

I think shooting was not planned. Incapacitate or kill in a bloodless manner - strangle with a cord from behind, or blow to the head (orange guy is a plastic mallet? They sell those in home depot) and may be tie up with tape. Or do so at the gun point. I'm nd you, they based on super sucker and bullmann observations they had either 2-3 or 5-10 minutes to transfer MS to Yukon. I'd say Tim Bosma was incapacitated either right after they left Bosma's residence or on Trinity road north of super sucker (depending on whether the 9:15 and 9:20 RAM sightings are Bosma's truck)

MS fks up by either not strangling enough and missing vitals, or not delivering sufficient blows, or doesn't tie well enough. They drive up Paris Rd, Tim Bosma regains consciousness or releases himself partially, may be breaks the window? DM has to immediately pull to oak park Rd (it's an over 90degree turn, not a good place for non urgent pull over) and pulls handgun keeping in his left hand. Driving down oak park he sees houses left and right, can't shoot ( mind you, 380 produces a muzzle report of over 157 dB). Finally he crosses the railroad and sees an industrial area and he shoots while still moving. He breaks almost immediately, yukon nearly rears the pickup. Possibly the first shot hits the window, second shot severes the carotid artery and Bosma dies a horrible death within 15-20 seconds. Blood all over. MS and DM assess the situation, and decide to move quickly. Possibly cover the body with tarp or repositioning so that it's less visible. But not moving to the trunk. Heavy bleeding would on the ground would prompt a 911 call next morning. Guaranteed, soil from the ditch was tested for blood. DM and MS do not know the area because instead of going around the block they make a U-turn, which doesn't save any time, looks suspicious, and given MS being a novice driver and the unpaved shoulder may lead to more trouble. My interpretation

 

[hopingforjustice]

I'm not entirely sure but he would be permitted to phone a lawyer as soon as he requested this.

And ironically the first lawyer he called was the one who was defending his buddy who sold him a gun (allegedly) I can't imagine MB having this lawyers number on speed dial.

 

[swedie]

Yeahs, reputation for giving oral sex while her boyfriend drives. My bet is she said it for attention, for the male jurors. All she needs is one....

Attention and a pathetic excuse to try and convince the jurors she was too focused and into her "act" that she was totally oblivious to everything else going on around her such as the cell phone calls/texts DM was making to MH. Her "act" also served the purpose of taking away any time spent between the two in which they likely talked about the theft, murder and what was going on. CN and DM are cut from the same cloth. They are both conniving manipulators. MOO.

 

[InducedLogic]

I would just like to state in MS rap video, where he plays the murderer and has a guy tied up covered in blood, one of the lines of the lyrics is "1 shot to your brain as your sitting inside"( WM, smich was living in the basement when WM was killed) and the last words of the song are 'gone, gone, gone...'.

 

[brightii]

:welcome3: Miranda16 and don_quixote

Goodnight all. Good luck trying to figure everything out - I'm too tired to think about it anymore tonight.

 

[Arnie M]

Edit: up thread, what's this about 9mm ammo, I thought the casing was .380.

Same thing with some variation in the brass casings for ejection etc

. Men came up with the most convoluted way to describe ammo and firearms sizes and calibers .... many times they do not even understand it themselves haaa

Just like we call a revolver a pistol and a pistol a revolver .... but a true revolver has a rotating (revolving) magazine (6-shooter) and a pistol has a clip that holds the ammo .

Not to mention a magazine is actually something to read and a clip is something to put in your hair and a shooter is a sweet liqueur you drink in a bar .

I have a 7mm hunting rifle which is slightly more powerful than a 270 which is slightly larger than a 30-06 which is larger than a 30-30

 

[don_quixote]

:welcome3: Miranda16 and don_quixote


Goodnight all. Good luck trying to figure everything out - I'm too tired to think about it anymore tonight.

Merci

 

[hellkat2]

I have a thought on why it feels like premeditated murder to me. Even just going off AM's statement saying DM asked him "should I steal the truck from the a**hole or the nice guy?". He was putting too much thought into which person to steal from. Was he having a moral dilemma not so much about which truck to take (as they were identical from what I understand) but which person's life to take?

The reason I am thinking this too is he was worried about AM's statement and wanting it changed just to "which truck should I buy?" and having nothing to do with the personal characterizations of the owners.

DM didn't seem to have morals about much in life but I really feel like his question to AM was some kind of moral dilemma to him about which person to murder?

Like many have said, if DM just wanted to steal a truck he could have gone and found one in the cover of darkness and taken it. For some reason this was the first time he stole something with the owner present and that person ends up dead? Not a coincidence to me.

All MOO.

Following Laura B's disappearance and his own father's shooting. And lord knows what else.

 

[Pink Panther]

And don't forget they took a loaded gun on the "test drive".
DM and his minions had already stolen a bobcat, a motorcycle, lawnmowers and quite possibly other vehicles. If the plan was to simply steal a truck, they could have easily done it in the middle of the night like many of their previous missions.
They planned and went prepared. Murder was always on the cards. My views only.

I agree. Why take a gun otherwise?

 

[Pink Panther]

Following Laura B's disappearance and his own father's shooting. And lord knows what else.

And what else is a very good question. He's such an awful "cheesy" writer, you can recognize his style easily. His father's obituary and his father's girlfriend…They should look into her death as well. Remember the obituary for Elisabeth Glass? Same awful writing, same awful everything...

 

[don_quixote]

Same thing with some variation in the brass casings for ejection etc

. Men came up with the most convoluted way to describe ammo and firearms sizes and calibers .... many times they do not even understand it themselves haaa

Just like we call a revolver a pistol and a pistol a revolver .... but a true revolver has a rotating (revolving) magazine (6-shooter) and a pistol has a clip that holds the ammo .

Not to mention a magazine is actually something to read and a clip is something to put in your hair and a shooter is a sweet liqueur you drink in a bar .

I have a 7mm hunting rifle which is slightly more powerful than a 270 which is slightly larger than a 30-06 which is larger than a 30-30

380 acp is the max caliber energy-wise that works with direct blowback mechanism. It's a 9mm projectile, but reduced powder charge and, therefore, a smaller case. The benefit is in the simple and compact direct blowback design. 9 mm Luger requires positive breach locking.

I swear, I knew it's going to be a walther ppk when they announced the discovery of a 380 casing. Walther ppk is the original James bond gun. The a-hole was playing 007 or something.