Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[mozzagirl]

I guess we will find out much more of the real story of how CN was involved when it comes time for her trial. A few things have stood out as interesting to me in her testimony so far though. One was she explains MS as "an acquaintance" and that she doesn't know him well. Then why was his number in her phone under "Marky Mark" which seems much friendlier than the other contacts that she mostly has listed as first name, last name? Also when looking for DM on the 10th, her calls were first to AM and then to MS. Again, if she knew nothing of their "mission" why was her second phone call to MS? I think she was much closer to MS than she let on.

MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

I'm wondering if Pedo got evidence of TB on him from being around TB's body or remains? Maybe DM and CN washed the dog with the hose at Riverside? Is this possible or plausible? I think it is interesting that Pedo seems to have some sort of mysterious unanswered connection to the crime, IMO, as he and his whereabouts are often referred to, IMO.

All MOO.

I think DM is psychopath, and in being so has trouble differentiating between human, pet and material toys. Do you remember KH's visit back to the house of horror, and her priorities.?

Yes, having concern for his pet is normal, but I am sure the dog is being treated well. His reference to Pedo in letters is not normal to me, more like a soft spot CN has for pets, and how he can exploit that fact to manipulate her.

He most likely puts as much value in Pedo as he does a human. Not saying many normal folks don't, just that when you don't understand that murdering a pet is not the same as murdering a human, as terrible as that may sound. Our laws reflect that fact.

And yes, I have been a pet owner all my life. Both cats and dogs.

MOO

 

[ABro]

Thanks. What do you think about the 9:10 and 9:15 RAM spottings? What an unacceptable miss by the expert. Now the defense has a reason to talk about bias. Although, black RAMs are the primary mode of transportation in rural Ontario. What bothers me about it, is if they headed south by S. Sucker at 9:15 and were back at 9:20, why didn't Mr. Bullmann see the truck entering the field? It was such a short time interval, he would be likely in the view when they both entered and exited. Also, I missed the hole in the panel thing. I wonder if you remember the trial day and witness for that.

It wasn't a miss. Here's what I wrote about Pillay's cross examination of the forensic video expert:

It is about another truck that can be seen in the feeds from Super Sucker, but was never shown to the court during Plaxton’s direct examination. The truck travels north at 9:05 p.m.Super Sucker time and then south at 9:15 pm.. The vehicle that Pillay’s referring to has all three characteristics of the Bosma truck: running lights, chrome rims and chrome running boards. Plaxton agrees with Pillay that he can’t say that it’s not the same vehicle.

“That segment was not directed to you by anyone prior to today, the investigators didn't tell you about that segment,” Pillay suggests.

Plaxton contradicts him, answering, “Yes I would have seen that segment.”

“You didn't include it in your report. You missed that.”

While it is indeed true that Plaxton didn’t include it in his report, he has just said that he had indeed seen the truck. There is no reason to believe it is something he overlooked

Pillay shows another piece of Super Sucker video. It shows a truck like the Bosma one only this time it’s headed south on Trinity Road. “That’s another segment you were not directed to view, not in your report, not in your examination in chief” by the Crown, says Pillay. The first time you’re providing evidence about that is now.”

Plaxton agrees but neither he nor Tony Leitch, who conducted the direct examination, seem surprised or phased by this video of what could be the Bosma truck heading north at 9:05 and south at 9:15

.

why didn't Mr. Bullmann see the truck entering the field? It was such a short time interval, he would be likely in the view when they both entered and exited.

Five minutes is not a short time interval in a case like this. It can make all the difference between seeing something and not seeing it. Depending on the terrain and POV, one minute could make a difference -- or even 30 seconds.

 

[Claroon]

...

This seems to be one of those blank spots where something is missing, since DM texted SS asking about the pressure washer at 5:42am on the Wednesday. So that would suggest that either DM went ahead and washed TB's truck exterior using a different tool/hose, (that could be why there was spatter remaining on the underside of the truck?) before SS showed up for work that day, ... or SS was present when the truck was being washed (and possibly also AJ), ... or the truck still had all of that blood on it for SS and AJ to potentially see, and it was power-washed at a different time (perhaps DM and MS (or CN?) took the truck inside the trailer to Riverview at some point in between taking it out of the hangar and delivering it to MB's driveway?).

If the truck had been hosed down prior to SS showing up on Wednesday morning, wouldn't he and AJ have noticed the water that would inevitably be present on the tarp, indicating the truck had just been washed? I suppose there also could have been a second pressure-washer, perhaps one that didn't work as well as the one that SS had in his vehicle?

:

Maybe he took just the carpets or a seat to wash at Riverside. Maybe even the Yukon seat. MM sat on something and am wondering if that board was added later.So blood in the grass.

 

[brightii]

I guess we will find out much more of the real story of how CN was involved when it comes time for her trial. A few things have stood out as interesting to me in her testimony so far though. One was she explains MS as "an acquaintance" and that she doesn't know him well. Then why was his number in her phone under "Marky Mark" which seems much friendlier than the other contacts that she mostly has listed as first name, last name? Also when looking for DM on the 10th, her calls were first to AM and then to MS. Again, if she knew nothing of their "mission" why was her second phone call to MS? I think she was much closer to MS than she let on.

MOO.

I agree. Also AM took the exact same distancing stance regarding MS, and yet between May 7th to May 11th there were several phone contacts between MS and AM, which came up during MM's testimony, IMO. So AM had spoken with MS before the night of DM's arrest and after TB's murder on May 6th, IMO. I think many people were aware of the planned truck theft, and if murder was discussed, then I think it may have been discussed as a wild idea by DM, and that would then make more sense to me that AM may have responded with his F-off statement, as I had posted here before, IMO.

Speculating here: If murder was in DM's mind a real plan, I think he may have been so bold to test his idea on friends to mine a response and entice accomplices, IMO. I could see if DM did suggest that he could murder the truck owner and just take the truck that his friends would reply with disbelief and incredulity, IMO. Perhaps DM took AM's response as a kind of challenge and DM was determined to show them all just what he is capable of, IMO, and they would then never dare to forget or challenge DM again, IMO. This kind of conversation may have been shared amid sick jokes, but AM didn't respond by laughing it off, and DM likely tried to shame AM by calling him out as a pansy in front of MM and MS, IMO. I think it is plausible that such a conversation about murdering the nice guy or the a-hole did take place and that no one took DM's dark humour seriously and likely thought DM was just messing with their heads and bluffing, IMO. They were minor thieves at DM's direction and under his influence before, so it's hard to fathom that any of them were suddenly overcome with a bloodlust for murder at his suggestion, IMO. Even for these immoral thieves, I think a cold-blooded pre-meditated murder would be a foreign concept to them as it would be to most people, IMO. Why would MS agree to be a part of a murder? I really don't see any incentive for MS, IMO, unlike DM, who seems to have wanted to take not only a truck but an innocent life along with it, IMO.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...y-treated-me-as-though-i-were-hannibal-lecter

In DM's Sept 14th letter to CN he wrote (paraphrasing here) that DM usually keeps his hopes and plans to himself, IMO. He was writing in context of dreams and plans DM had for he and CN that he had never shared with her (conveniently), IMO. I think those words will be used by TD to illustrate that DM did make plans and have wild fantasies that others were never privy to or informed about, IMO.

All MOO. And just my SPECULATION.

 

[Arnie M]

Imo, he wasn't talking about $100,000/month in relation to renting space at the hangar; see below; previous discussion here made it seem it would be impossible to make that kind of money simply by stealing stuff and selling it, or even by drug-dealing (which apparently he was already doing anyway):

from MH's Tweets:

Fair enough ..... that is one way to interpret it (that AM thought the 100k was to come from crime) ...... but I interpreted DM was talking about the Hangar business needed to bring in 100k to get out of the hole (debt)

As I said earlier 100k per month is exactly in line with what he could rent the hangar for ..... stealing bobcats and used trucks would not earn that much

Anyway , I interpreted "business" as meaning "hangar business" and some interpret it as proceeds of crime.


...................... (from the article) ........................

Another series of text messages between Millard and Michalski were shown the jury, dated April 5, 2013.

“2013 is gonna be all business. 2014/15 will be for inventions!” Millard texted his friend.

“Need to make some money first,” Michalski replied.

“About 100,000 a month, and I’ll be out of the hole,” said Millard.

On the stand, Michalski explained that Millard needed money to stay in the hangar.

“I knew he had a mortgage on the hangar he had to pay off and he wasn’t getting any money in,

Challenge accepted,” said Michalski.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/13/s...-roommate-testifies-at-tim-bosma-murder-trial

.................................................................................

I also have a hard time believing that when AM said "challenge accepted" he meant partnering with DM in crime to bring in the 100k per month ..... that would be a huge leap for AM considering his crime experience thus far was as a lookout with a walkie talkie on a dark country road

 

[BeeRadley]

I was a bit steaming about CN's testimony like the majority of us when she first testified. I guess DMs letters and the weight of that evidence towards the entire trial balanced it out on my own personal psychological scale.

This is a bit OT, but I'm amazed at how far back text messages can be retrieved by LE. A funny story - I was being interviewed by a detective in Toronto for a case I would rather not mention. It was more of a statement on my end to gather evidence against someone. There were about a dozen text messages that I received on my phone that were of interest to LE. I don't know if this particular detective that I was in contact with was not in tune in technology, but he asked to see my phone and actually went to the photocopier in front of me and tried to photocopy the texts from my phone lol. Trying to hold back a large smile, I told him I don't think they'll show up that way. Why don't I just "forward" them to you if you need them for your case or take a screenshot of them and send them as a jpeg? I even told him to take picture of my phones texts if thats easier. He insisted on trying anyway and I did end up forwarding him the texts because he got a photocopy of blackberry with a black screen.

 

[ABro]

I was a bit steaming about CN's testimony like the majority of us when she first testified. I guess DMs letters and the weight of that evidence towards the entire trial balanced it out on my own personal psychological scale.

This is a bit OT, but I'm amazed at how far back text messages can be retrieved by LE. A funny story - I was being interviewed by a detective in Toronto for a case I would rather not mention. It was more of a statement on my end to gather evidence against someone. There were about a dozen text messages that I received on my phone that were of interest to LE. I don't know if this particular detective that I was in contact with was not in tune in technology, but he asked to see my phone and actually went to the photocopier in front of me and tried to photocopy the texts from my phone lol. Trying to hold back a large smile, I told him I don't think they'll show up that way. Why don't I just "forward" them to you if you need them for your case or take a screenshot of them and send them as a jpeg? I even told him to take picture of my phones texts if thats easier. He insisted on trying anyway and I did end up forwarding him the texts because he got a photocopy of blackberry with a black screen.

It's actually pretty routine to photograph texts on a phone. Then the cop can testify s/he saw and photographed the messages. I've seen it done a few times. A screenshot jpeg can be photoshopped.

Photocopying a Blackberry is downright weird.

 

[redwing7225]

It's actually routine to photograph texts on a phone. Then the cop can testify s/he saw and photographed the messages. A screenshot jpeg can be photoshopped.

Photocopying a Blackberry is downright weird.

My sincere thanks and appreciation to you for chiming in every once in a while. IMO, you keep our wandering thoughts/opinions on the correct path of fact vs. emotion.

 

[Georgeo]

Thanks, this is pretty much my exact theory as well. To me this seems most plausible! To me it explains why Tim's phone was found here , and why the perps deviated on their route to the farm. JMO This would explain the MS comment that he F'd up, it explains the short timeframe of the swap at the Yukon S. of Supersucker, it explains MS wanting tape. It explains the 'change of plans' that seemed to occur at the bobcat dealer. It explains GSR on roof of driver side, and the hole in the panel on the door and broken window (I think more than one shot was fired) etc etc etc. It is the simplest solution explaining so much more than other theories that people seem to be pushing. MOO Like many here I think DM and MS are guilty of first degree due to their participation in planning and commission. I think the ONLY way we will ever get to the story of how things played out, will be for MS to take the stand. I don't think DM is capable of hitting the stand, he would come across as the psychopath he appears to be and damage his own defense. MS on the other hand with TD's questioning could be most damaging to DM but this hinges on the above theory that DM alone shot TB. ALL MOO

How would we know that MS story on the stand is the truth though?

 

[Georgeo]

This trial seems like a complicated crime drama (movie). So many twists and turns, and inconsistent evidence from witnesses. Will the whole story ever be known in its entirety? No. Will Bosma family have complete closure - and know that Tim died quickly and didn't suffer? Doubtful. Will the perps realize they should be truthful, even after trial is over and their sentences are decided on? Not a chance.

This is type of person simply doesn't care and the suffering of victim's family means nothing to them.

What is shocking to me is that even DM's mother was covering for her son! The girl friends too. Not to mention AM, SS and the rest of the gang too. Hope they all have a great life now that their names are out in the public's eye.

All MOO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Thanks. What do you think about the 9:10 and 9:15 RAM spottings? What an unacceptable miss by the expert. Now the defense has a reason to talk about bias. Although, black RAMs are the primary mode of transportation in rural Ontario. What bothers me about it, is if they headed south by S. Sucker at 9:15 and were back at 9:20, why didn't Mr. Bullmann see the truck entering the field? It was such a short time interval, he would be likely in the view when they both entered and exited. Also, I missed the hole in the panel thing. I wonder if you remember the trial day and witness for that.

It was a piece of the passenger side panel where 'tissue' was reportedly found and it was around the testimony of the blood splatters in the truck, I just searched day 8 and am finding WS terribly laggy. I have to run right now, but I will continue looking for you when I return. The piece was removed from just below the window and above the door handle. MOO

On another note I found it interesting on day 8 truck evidence, DM was holding head in hands and appearing less than happy, while MS was frantically taking notes. Given what we know now, it was interesting looking back.

 

[Errrr]

That guy is DELUSIONAL!!!

I don't understand how he got beat up four times if he's been in segregation the whole time?
Was also wondering if CN caught the reference he made to the excuse that someone borrowed his cellphone to leave evidence on?...as he did with hers???

 

[Dutchman]

Does anyone with knowledge of how the jails work know if DM is lying that he would have been kept naked for weeks and been kept in a video-recorded cell, being given just bread, jam and water? That seems like one of his made up ideas in his head IMO, to make him seem more vulnerable to CN so she pities him.

MOO.

Sometimes when a person is being watched for suicide their clothes are taken so there is no risk of hanging themselves. For there own protection.

 

[brightii]

How would we know that MS story on the stand is the truth though?

I think the jury has to rely on their judgment when considering the credibility of every person who testifies to determine if the witness appears to be truthful or not, so they'd have to do the same with MS if he does take the stand, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[don_quixote]

Thank you, I'll look that up. A bullet hole is very identifiable. May be a very important piece.

 

[Errrr]

Fair enough ..... that is one way to interpret it (that AM thought the 100k was to come from crime) ...... but I interpreted DM was talking about the Hangar business needed to bring in 100k to get out of the hole (debt)

As I said earlier 100k per month is exactly in line with what he could rent the hangar for ..... stealing bobcats and used trucks would not earn that much

Anyway , I interpreted "business" as meaning "hangar business" and some interpret it as proceeds of crime.


...................... (from the article) ........................

Another series of text messages between Millard and Michalski were shown the jury, dated April 5, 2013.

“2013 is gonna be all business. 2014/15 will be for inventions!” Millard texted his friend.

“Need to make some money first,” Michalski replied.

“About 100,000 a month, and I’ll be out of the hole,” said Millard.

On the stand, Michalski explained that Millard needed money to stay in the hangar.

“I knew he had a mortgage on the hangar he had to pay off and he wasn’t getting any money in,

Challenge accepted,” said Michalski.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/04/13/s...-roommate-testifies-at-tim-bosma-murder-trial

.................................................................................

I also have a hard time believing that when AM said "challenge accepted" he meant partnering with DM in crime to bring in the 100k per month ..... that would be a huge leap for AM considering his crime experience thus far was as a lookout with a walkie talkie on a dark country road

IMO Any of these aquaintances would listen to DMs wacky ideas and agree to go along with them as long as the money keeps flowing. It seems they didn't always go ahead with them anyway so why worry as long as the goodies continue to flow. They probably though of him as their "Sugar Loon".

 

[Dutchman]

“Have your cover stories planned and ready. Romance is always a good one. I don’t mind you being publicly flirtacious if it’s in my favor. Just so long as all of him stays on the outside of you. I leave it to you to plan. But do plan it. Don’t wing it. "Well this explains CN testimony"jmo

 

[mimimic]

This article transcribes a lot of the letters that were presented at trial on Thursday

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...y-treated-me-as-though-i-were-hannibal-lecter

Whoa!!!

 

[Errrr]

I wonder if DM had never seen the bedroom of CN? If he had, he would have known it was risky expecting her to throw something out.