Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[Claroon]

Just a quick thought and maybe it was covered some where in another thread. But what ever happened to DM s man purse. SB said he had it on before the test drive. In the videoin the early morning at the hanger he is wearing it. Was there no blood evidence on it? Was it recovered? Even washing machines have difficulty removing those kind of stains.

And I would like clarity on if there were 2 murses. There is one inf the Yukon photo, but I believe there is testimony LE found one in the washing machine at DM's and they did test the blood stain on it. JMO

 

[Claroon]

Another quick thought he wore the sachet to the left like a left handed person would. Which might have protected it from blood. But anyone know if he's left handed? Would be easy to drive and get a shot off. Jmo easier than a right handed person, that is assuming he is driving....

We had the right handed left handed discussion before. I noticed today in a police sketch they show DM with a pen in his left hand.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

To recap what is known or understood based on information available and discussed in previous threads:
CN has testified that they were together 2010ish and they were exclusive.
From what is known, DM was engaged in May 2011 but it is understood that the engagement was called off not long after this but they remained friends. At the time of WM's death, DM was not engaged but his ex-fiance did come to the house. DM was also still texting with her and seeing her at the time of TB's murder.
DM was also believed to have an intimate relationship with LB before her murder July 2012.
Another witness has testified that she was also intimate with DM during that time.
I'm pretty doubtful that CN was unaware of his other relationships. She may be lying about her understanding about their relationship and when it began. moo

CN said she had "suspicions" but DM always denied. Though a FIANCEE can't really be denied, I think - other women/girls can.

 

[Claroon]

Or, they hung out at the farm for a couple of hours cleaning out the incinerator, hiding the bones.

I once thought he ran the hoses to soften the ground so he could dig it easier. Would he have time to bury the bones before the arrest? He did have the white can and dusty gloves in his Yukon. I'd think LE could see a difference in the earth if he had dug. IMO

Maybe it wasn't a gun in the toolbox, but bones. IMO

 

[Claroon]

.

You nailed it !!!!! .... if not for those 2 things the Bosma disappearance would be an unsolved cold-case today.

.

SB said he wore a long-sleeved orange shirt not short sleeved. http://m.thespec.com/news-story/626...ly-man-one-reclusive-showed-up-for-test-drive

Perhaps his mistake was getting his tattoo.

 

[Maple1]

Agree with everyone on major mistakes by DM and MS.
Thanks to everyone for the timelines on vehicle movements etc. (Especially Bill Andrew on the witness/phone data base). I am still trying to wrap my head around all of the named individual initials.

Thankfully, they were so inept in the planning of this "mission" that we should see first degree convictions.
I have been very impressed with the crown case as it has progressed. As frustrating as some moments have been.
They have in IMO a vast amount of evidence to convict. Having a burner phone and then still having your own phones during the mission were in my opinion, pretty dumb. And keeping the truck in plain sight in the hangar on May 8 with Jennings taking photos of VIN number and truck reporting to crime stoppers.
Had they been smarter there would of been much less proof to convict. For instance, realizing killing Tim Bosmas in the truck could never really be cleaned up, and to solve that, burning it all. But then again, TB is still missing, the truck is missing and DM/MS hopefully would of been found.

Looking forward to more of DM personal letters to give more evidence for his demise. I agree with whomever has posted that CN was called as a crown witness to establish DM wrote her letters and the timeline involved. Her actual testimony or DNR (do not recall) words have been 100% crapola (crayola) IMO.
Who ever wrote the post on DNR had me laughing! Sorry, not great at keeping track of all the info and actual post numbers.

The entire discussion this weekend on the "hose running for 10 hours" was a mystery to me. I do recall it in the testimony of DM's builder/contractor (sorry on initials). And now I see it may be involved with trying to destroy more evidence.

Totally non related, I have been wanting to comment on how graphically ugly all of DM's tattoo's are. Poor choice of font, and design overall. Sure helped in ID'ing him as a suspect.

One more question. Post trial or even when the jury is deliberating, some or all of the publication ban will be lifted?
I am looking forward to some of the police taped interviews with DM, MS, AM and others.
As well all of the legal suspressed potentially damaging evidence that was not allowed in during the trial.

Justice for Tim Bosma and his family. May he rest in peace.

 

[andreww]

I once thought he ran the hoses to soften the ground so he could dig it easier. Would he have time to bury the bones before the arrest? He did have the white can and dusty gloves in his Yukon. I'd think LE could see a difference in the earth if he had dug. IMO

Maybe it wasn't a gun in the toolbox, but bones. IMO

The area where the hose was running was actually a paved parking area behind the building. I still feel Millard dumped the ashes in the can in to a sewer, then ran the water all day to make sure there was no ash remaining.

 

[Arnie M]

SB said he wore a long-sleeved orange shirt not short sleeved. http://m.thespec.com/news-story/626...ly-man-one-reclusive-showed-up-for-test-drive

Perhaps his mistake was getting his tattoo.

It was Igor T. who saw the tattoo , not SB

 

[andreww]

This is pretty much what I said in my post #459. "When considering forcible confinement, think comparatively of it being very similar to an abduction of a child." Thank you! Think comparatively...kidnapping and forcible confinement. These sum TB's situation up perfectly: "There must be proven that there was at least a minimal deprivation of the victim's freedom." A person who voluntarily enters into a car, but is then denied the ability to leave will usually make out the offence.

The judge will give precise definitions to the jurors on premeditation, the different degrees of murder and forcible confinement. I don't think we should worry or fear these two &%$#*%@$ getting off. MOO.

I get how that relates to Millard, assuming he's in the car with TB, but what about Smich? Once he leaves the vehicle, and assuming all is still well with Bosma, and no gun has yet been pulled, is he still guilty by association?

Not that I feel Smich is innocent, just interested to know what his defence will be?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

SB said he wore a long-sleeved orange shirt not short sleeved. http://m.thespec.com/news-story/626...ly-man-one-reclusive-showed-up-for-test-drive

Perhaps his mistake was getting his tattoo.

His mistake was always pulling up his sleeves. IMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html

“I aspired to that image in some ways because people wanted that of me,” he says pulling up his orange sleeves, revealing large tattoos across both arms that read “I am heaven sent” and “Don’t you dare forget.”
“I threw some parties. I tried to make that a reality for my friends.”

http://www.metronews.ca/news/hamilt...-killers-want-to-speak-out-but-just-cant.html

Millard stood tall behind the glass during the brief visit; his orange coveralls zipped up all the way, with the sleeves rolled halfway up his arms.

 

[andreww]

His mistake was always pulling up his sleeves. IMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...didnt_kill_tim_bosma_exclusive_interview.html


http://www.metronews.ca/news/hamilt...-killers-want-to-speak-out-but-just-cant.html

Didn't he wear a short sleeved shirt on the test drive with IT?

 

[andreww]

BTW, while on the subject of Millard's tattoos, it was said back when this happened that police received several tips about Millard based on the tattoo information. Have we heard who made those calls? Certainly it wasn't one of Millard's motley crew as they apparantly never watched TV, listened to the radio, or read the papers, so who was the hero?

 

[mimimic]

BTW, while on the subject of Millard's tattoos, it was said back when this happened that police received several tips about Millard based on the tattoo information. Have we heard who made those calls? Certainly it wasn't one of Millard's motley crew as they apparantly never watched TV, listened to the radio, or read the papers, so who was the hero?

DM was with a previous ticket(?) he was pulled over for something and they noted his tattoo.

 

[andreww]

DM was with a previous ticket(?) he was pulled over for something and they noted his tattoo.

You sure about that? Somehow I don't think Toronto police are taking tattoo info on traffic stops.

 

[Inspector_North]

You sure about that? Somehow I don't think Toronto police are taking tattoo info on traffic stops.

IIRC. DM was tearing up and down a street and was reported. LE responding to that call carded DM, and the tattoo was recorded.

MOO

 

[Boudica]

You sure about that? Somehow I don't think Toronto police are taking tattoo info on traffic stops.

Yes they do. Millard was carded.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

 

[MsSherlock]

I get how that relates to Millard, assuming he's in the car with TB, but what about Smich? Once he leaves the vehicle, and assuming all is still well with Bosma, and no gun has yet been pulled, is he still guilty by association?

Not that I feel Smich is innocent, just interested to know what his defence will be?

IMO, since it's up to the Crown to prove that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, MS doesn't really have to do but sit there and hope that the Crown hasn't been successful. If this forum is an example of the cross section of people who are on the Jury, IMO, most feel that the Crown has proved their case against DM- without a doubt, however, I don't know if the same can be said with MS. IMO, all of the stuff that the DM camp has done to try to destroy, manipulate and alter evidence in an effort to cast the blame 100% on MS has somewhat muddied things. My thoughts are that TD will wage his ultimate defence when he cross examines CN in an attempt to show the Jury that DM would stop at nothing to make MS the fall guy.

Nothing takes away the evidence we have heard about MS. MS has admitted that he was the guy in the backseat for the IT test-drive. He was there for the conversation with AM after the IT test drive and from MM/AM's collaborating testimony, MS was with DM from the night of the TB test drive until 8 am the next morning. MM has testified that MS got paid from DM for his part in this "mission"- even though it was thought by MM that MS was expecting more. IMHO, that makes MS, DM's hired wingman/assistant for this mission and MS was fully aware that DM wanted to steal a truck, kill someone and use the incinerator to get rid of the evidence and for whatever reason, MS accepted the mission. MM's stated that DM & MS said the mission was successful and neither of them appeared to be stressed or upset- matter of fact, they were pretty happy. So, regardless of all of the other stuff that these guys have done post murder, the actions by DM & MS immediately before and after the actual murder is sufficient to prove to me that the murder itself was part of one of DM's missions; it was premeditated and completed by both of them. MOO

Even though DM seems to have hit the jackpot with CN's inability to remember many details, the little crayon in the drawer that CN feels isn't the "sharpest" does seem to have remembered a lot. A defence by either DM or MS would have to address MM's testimony, "pacifically" the mood in the Yukon when they came to pick her up the morning after. It's funny that DM was only concerned about AM recanting the truck theft conversation- did he not think of MM and what she knew?

So perhaps DM will take the stand and clear up all of these misunderstandings. IMO, they're both guilty and the Jury will find them both guilty as charged. MOO

 

[andreww]

IMO, since it's up to the Crown to prove that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, MS doesn't really have to do but sit there and hope that the Crown hasn't been successful. If this forum is an example of the cross section of people who are on the Jury, IMO, most feel that the Crown has proved their case against DM- without a doubt, however, I don't know if the same can be said with MS. IMO, all of the stuff that the DM camp has done to try to destroy, manipulate and alter evidence in an effort to cast the blame 100% on MS has somewhat muddied things. My thoughts are that TD will wage his ultimate defence when he cross examines CN in an attempt to show the Jury that DM would stop at nothing to make MS the fall guy.

Nothing takes away the evidence we have heard about MS. MS has admitted that he was the guy in the backseat for the IT test-drive. He was there for the conversation with AM after the IT test drive and from MM/AM's collaborating testimony, MS was with DM from the night of the TB test drive until 8 am the next morning. MM has testified that MS got paid from DM for his part in this "mission"- even though it was thought by MM that MS was expecting more. IMHO, that makes MS, DM's hired wingman/assistant for this mission and MS was fully aware that DM wanted to steal a truck, kill someone and use the incinerator to get rid of the evidence and for whatever reason, MS accepted the mission. MM's stated that DM & MS said the mission was successful and neither of them appeared to be stressed or upset- matter of fact, they were pretty happy. So, regardless of all of the other stuff that these guys have done post murder, the actions by DM & MS immediately before and after the actual murder is sufficient to prove to me that the murder itself was part of one of DM's missions; it was premeditated and completed by both of them. MOO

Even though DM seems to have hit the jackpot with CN's inability to remember many details, the little crayon in the drawer that CN feels isn't the "sharpest" does seem to have remembered a lot. A defence by either DM or MS would have to address MM's testimony, "pacifically" the mood in the Yukon when they came to pick her up the morning after. It's funny that DM was only concerned about AM recanting the truck theft conversation- did he not think of MM and what she knew?

So perhaps DM will take the stand and clear up all of these misunderstandings. IMO, they're both guilty and the Jury will find them both guilty as charged. MOO

BBM, MM wasn't exactly positive what the $300 was actually for. If it was for the truck mission it would be hard for him to say he was disappointed as he was paid in advance. I just don't see MS going along with this for $300 while Millard gets a $20K truck. Tao about pay inequity.

But to my original point, if as the law says, the are guilty of 1st degree because Tim was being held against his will, nothing matters but the fact that Smich was actually there. Its already been proved beyond a doubt that he knew the mission involved stealing the truck, so I just don't get what possible defence he could put up with the exception of saying that he wasn't actually there. But who's going to believe that???

 

[andreww]

Yes they do. Millard was carded.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

Thanks for that! There's actually a big push in the Toronto area to put an end to the practice of carding. IMO criminals are the only ones that are speaking out.

 

[Abitcountry]

IMO....last week the best one liner came from Nosey Parker....."Oh what a difference a Hostile Witness makes" tra la la.

Kudos NP :guitar:

Looking forward to this week's testimony.........:singing::singing::singing:


(Nosey Parker is a sleuth here on WS)