Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #13

[mimimic]

And the "she devil" woke up to check her "media drain"

 

[canadiangirl]

And the "she devil" woke up to check her "media drain"

How do you know?

 

[Miranda16]

First of all, it's not a question of "saving" evidence for her trial. Her testimony at the Bosma trial was just that. It wasn't a dry run for her own trial.

Second of all, judges know and instruct juries to look at the evidence as a whole. So in a circumstantial case, while it may be reasonable to explain away one piece of circumstantial evidence, it's becomes far less reasonable to explain away three and downright unreasonable to explain away 10.

Finally, I don't really understand this little game that is played on so many crime discussion sites where people seem to like to entertain/torture themselves with fears about whether the prosecution has enough evidence. Why not just wait for the trial and see what they've got after months of investigation? What's the point of wringing your hands now, especially when there's nothing to suggest that charges are being laid gratuitously?

This is a forum for discussing crimes, trials and evidence (mainly by members of the public, not legal professionals for the most part). That's what I am doing, as are you. Naturally you are more knowledgable. I'm entitled to my opinion on whether or not she would be found guilty based on what we know so far (also entitled to fret about it - I don't want criminals to 'walk'). And as a non-professional, I may be off-base. So be it. I'm one of many expressing such opinions.

 

[brightii]

I'm late to the party.....ok - I can give you the video/lyrics (although i do believe it shows a tendency towards violence.....not everyone could come up with that.....but I agree that not all people who do this type of "art" commit murder.

However, I have a HUGE problem with someone saying that MS isn't violent because he only hit MM ONCE? It is NEVER ok to hit a woman. Never, ever, ever. MOO

I appreciate your viewpoint and often agree with what you have to say, so I am honestly asking the next question in sincerity......what evidence would you need to see to find MS guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

I completely agree that it's never okay for a man to hit a woman, but I didn't minimize MS's actions with the qualifier "only". To me that is an important distinction to make and clarify. I don't think there is any justification or excuse for abuse.

My point is there is no evidence that MS has a pattern of abuse with MM and the abuse that happened on one occasion, according to MM, didn't escalate into regular abuse as it so often does with a violent abusers.

I hope you and everyone here understands that I don't like MS or see him as in any way admirable, but though he seems to be a troubled character and a person I would avoid like the plague, so are ALL the characters around DM, and DM primarily, IMO, and with the exception of DM, I don't see that much difference between any of them and MS if I'm being honest, IMO. It just makes sense to me that if DM suggested and planned a murder and he shared this information with MS, he would also tell the others, IMO. Equally, if DM did not share his plan with MS or the others to murder TB on the test drive, then I think it plausible that MS was taken by surprise by DM's actions on the test drive, IMO, just as the others would be shocked to discover a murder happened, IMO. They ALL went into cover-up mode after TB's murder, IMO. I struggle with MS's guilt because I truly believe if MS knew the plan, they all knew and agreed to help DM in particular to escape justice, IMO. If MS and the others didn't know the plan or participate in it, I can see how the others might act to help their leader, DM by choosing to scapegoat the less respected and more dispensible MS, by moving around evidence and getting DM's gun and weed to MS, IMO. So I do think a frame-up of MS is possible, and DM's letters only confirmed that possibility for me, IMO. I think it's possible that MS was being sacrificed to save DM by the actions of others after the fact, IMO.

The reasonable doubt that persists for me is admittedly weak at this point, IMO, perhaps weaker than you or others may suspect, IMO, especially when I think of MS also being charged in LB's murder and his living at the home of WM when he was allegedly murdered by DM, IMO. Of course the jury cannot consider these charges or circumstances when deliberating about MS or DM, but I cannot overlook these things and they are a legitimate cause for concern when thinking about MS's guilt in TB's murder, IMO.

I hope MS will testify, and if he does, or if TD presents further evidence, or even if DM testifies - whatever is to be revealed this week at trial - I genuinely hope will help me make a decision about MS that relieves my lingering doubts about his guilt, IMO. I honestly don't know what I need to see or hear about MS, but I trust that if and when it happens, I'll be able to recognize the truth and assess it, IMO. I just want to be more sure before I can say MS is guilty, IMO. Have no doubt about one thing, my desire to see justice delivered for TB and his family is sincere.

All MOO.

 

[mimimic]

How do you know?

She deleted a nasty comment on her inst account

 

[canadiangirl]

She deleted a nasty comment on her inst account

I missed the nasty comment? Ugh I didn't look far enough. Lol booo

 

[Mscree]

I looked through and wasn't able to find it

 

[caseyjonesin905]

She deleted a nasty comment on her inst account

She does it all the time..

Not really a go getter.. lol Wakes up at the crack of noon..

 

[canadiangirl]

She does it all the time..

I must be looking in the wrong place. I was hoping there'd be more lol she deserves it IMO

 

[caseyjonesin905]

I looked through and wasn't able to find it

Her comment on the booze pic was "what's your poison?"

Someone commented something about it not helping a murderer..

 

[mimimic]

OH - did it say in one of the letters to Cn that D liked talking with her dad about (both) her grandfathers time in prison somewhere?? if not sorry i must have imagined it somehow.

 

[DeepWoodsOff]

Thankful for life's little miracles....no court on the anniversary date of Tim's passing. The family can commemorate without having to sit in the courtroom, that I am sure they are looking forward to seeing the end of. MOO

 

[Typhoo1961]

Her comment on the booze pic was "what's your poison?"

Someone commented something about it not helping a murderer..

Yup. I saw that one. Made me laugh.

 

[RandomName479]

I completely agree that it's never okay for a man to hit a woman, but I didn't minimize MS's actions with the qualifier "only". To me that is an important distinction to make and clarify. I don't think there is any justification or excuse for abuse.

My point is there is no evidence that MS has a pattern of abuse with MM and the abuse that happened on one occasion, according to MM, didn't escalate into regular abuse as it so often does with a violent abusers.

I hope you and everyone here understands that I don't like MS or see him as in any way admirable, but though he seems to be a troubled character and a person I would avoid like the plague, so are ALL the characters around DM, and DM primarily, IMO, and with the exception of DM, I don't see that much difference between any of them and MS if I'm being honest, IMO. It just makes sense to me that if DM suggested and planned a murder and he shared this information with MS, he would also tell the others, IMO. Equally, if DM did not share his plan with MS or the others to murder TB on the test drive, then I think it plausible that MS was taken by surprise by DM's actions on the test drive, IMO, just as the others would be shocked to discover a murder happened, IMO. They ALL went into cover-up mode after TB's murder, IMO. I struggle with MS's guilt because I truly believe if MS knew the plan, they all knew and agreed to help DM in particular to escape justice, IMO. If MS and the others didn't know the plan or participate in it, I can see how the others might act to help their leader, DM by choosing to scapegoat the less respected and more dispensible MS, by moving around evidence and getting DM's gun and weed to MS, IMO. So I do think a frame-up of MS is possible, and DM's letters only confirmed that possibility for me, IMO. I think it's possible that MS was being sacrificed to save DM by the actions of others after the fact, IMO.

The reasonable doubt that persists for me is admittedly weak at this point, IMO, perhaps weaker than you or others may suspect, IMO, especially when I think of MS also being charged in LB's murder and his living at the home of WM when he was allegedly murdered by DM, IMO. Of course the jury cannot consider these charges or circumstances when deliberating about MS or DM, but I cannot overlook these things and they are a legitimate cause for concern when thinking about MS's guilt in TB's murder, IMO.

I hope MS will testify, and if he does, or if TD presents further evidence, or even if DM testifies - whatever is to be revealed this week at trial - I genuinely hope will help me make a decision about MS that relieves my lingering doubts about his guilt, IMO. I honestly don't know what I need to see or hear about MS, but I trust that if and when it happens, I'll be able to recognize the truth and assess it, IMO. I just want to be more sure before I can say MS is guilty, IMO. Have no doubt about one thing, my desire to see justice delivered for TB and his family is sincere.

All MOO.

We will have to agree to disagree. IMO the Crown has shown at a minimum that MS was with DM the night of the murder, at the hangar afterwards and the next morning. We have texts about them planning the mission. I do struggle with whether MS knew a murder would be involved, but I have no doubt about his involvement that night. DM's other minions have been accounted for....whether or not they knew about the murder beforehand is almost irrelevant.....they weren't there when it went down.

If MS does testify and TD introduces evidence that shows DM was the shooter and MS was nowhere to be found I may change my opinion, but as it stands MS IMO needs to be held accountable for his actions on the night of May 6, 2013 and that requires he spend a long, long time in jail.

 

[Miranda16]

OH - did it say in one of the letters to Cn that D liked talking with her dad about (both) her grandfathers time in prison somewhere?? if not sorry i must have imagined it somehow.

I saw that. I assumed it had to do with injustices/wrongful imprisonment in Ukraine/USSR? But just a guess (haven't studied history enough either)

 

[Inspector_North]

I saw that. I assumed it had to do with injustices/wrongful imprisonment in Ukraine/USSR? But just a guess (haven't studied history enough either)

I believe It had to do with the treatment of the Ukraine during the great famine. He did mention Holodomor.

MOO

 

[brightii]

http://www.900chml.com/2016/05/06/tim-bosma-3-years-later/

 

[Just4TB]

I don't think it's him....this is the same arm he has the baha dessert tattoo on..unless he covered it.

nevermind I was wrong it was a pic of him in the mirror so the baha is on the other arm..still looks too small for his arm.

It's him. There are two freckles near the collarbone that match other pics of him on his FB site

ETA
Just noticed mimimic already stated same observation

 

[Dutchman]

I can tell you with certainty that she was very clear in saying that MB called DM and that this was done at a payphone. She even said that MB needed to call him at a certain time when she was under cross by Dungey.
Whether this is how it happened, I can't say. I'm not sure why, if it did happen differently, that she would need to say that it happened the way that it did. I don't know what it would have changed to say that DM called MB and sang a song to her on MB's cell phone.

As for as Barton Street jail, I don't know how many cell phones get inside. I'm sure it can happen. How DM manages it while being in Seg, I don't know. The same way that letters should not have been getting in and out, I imagine a phone could find its way in.
But CN definitely knew what she was saying when she said that MB called him.
jmo

It is my understanding that inmates do have phone privelgdes the prison as a copy of phone numbers an inmate would call. The reason for either a pay phone or a landline is because they are collect calls and you cannot receive a collect call on your cell. Unless you have your landline phone number as your cell.

 

[Mikala]

Well. you are here discussing it, so I think you do understand it. Bottom line is that CN was a witness for the crown in THIS trial, and they attempted to show that she was complicit in the cleanup after the crime, and they failed. Maybe they have more evidence but something tells me if they had a text from her talking specifically about moving Bosma's truck, or any other damning piece of evidence for that matter, the would have used it here. They didn't, and the frustration for the crown attorneys seemed quite obvious. My point is, if there is no "Saving evidence", one could rightly assume that they probably don't have stronger piece of evidence to present.

I know it's been mentioned before, but this is not CN's trial. The Crown's goal is to get convictions against DM and MS, and it really wouldn't serve their purpose to make CN look bad. The Crown needed CN to help them in this trial. Same for the respective defence counsel. In truth, unless I'm missing something I can't really understand why Dungey went on as he did. How did that help MS?