Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[mimimic]

The way I understood that was that they were going to scope it out (the same way they did Igor's truck) and if DM decided it was the one he wanted, they were going to come back later that night, and steal it. Likely in the middle of the night when the Bosmas would have clearly been sound asleep. It makes sense they'd have the RAM plates in the Yukon if that was the plan. It wouldn't surprise me to learn they had the RAM plates in the Yukon on the test drive with Igor as well.

The change of clothes makes sense as well in case anyone did see them, they'd describe two guys in completely different colored clothes, than the test driver guys from earlier.
The text conversation DM had with CN also makes sense - if it's a flop (turned out to be not the truck he wanted) he'd be back in 2 hours (it's just under a 2 hour round trip from DM's former home to the Bosma residence) but if it "goes" it's going to be an "all-nighter".

If the plan all along was to check out the truck and come back in the middle of the night, that same night, to steal it (in a different set of clothes), obviously DM and MS would have to hang out around the area for a few hours, the same way they apparently did on most of their other theft "missions", thus the "all-nighter" comment to CN. All of that makes sense to me, which causes me to wonder if killing the owner was never actually part of the plan at all. DM bringing a gun to scare/threaten him, but that was it, until it wasn't. Yes I know he's charged with killing LB and WM but that doesn't automatically mean TB's murder was also planned.

OR, it was, and was only planned by DM and MS honestly had no idea.

OR, it was planned by both of them and MS is lying his face off.

OR, MS actually brought the gun, shot Tim and is trying to set DM up for it. (I actually don't believe that one but it's certainly possible)

moo.

This all does make sense other than the fireworks and frying pan pic.

 

[Oreck]

I remember back when BD said MS got real paranoid. MS said these *iggers don't *uck around. I took that to mean that he was scared that DM would
put out a contract on him.
Does anyone else remember that?

 

[andreww]

Does the phone discovery announcement on the news land on the same day MS says he F'd up?

Not sure, but finding the phone was no big deal. The fact that the phone being in close proximity to the dealership led to them getting video of them is a big deal. Smich wouldn't have known that then though.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Totally agree that these are major hurdles. I've been thinking about TD's strategy here. TD is definitely no stoop- he's fully aware that these texts and pics are really big to the Crowns case, yet he didn't address them or come up with some reason for their existence during his Examination in Chief. He addressed lot's of other stuff and I don't believe he would just let MS hang out to dry on these items- I do believe he would stick handled them himself or had MS explain them to him. Rather, I'm thinking that perhaps TD knows exactly what they pertain to and they may not be as damning as we think. I think we would be fooling ourselves to think that the Crown isn't thinking about the same thing. Lot's of pressure on the Crown to prove their case and I doubt that they're in the mood for any surprises; it's been long, exhausting trial. MOO

I understand what you are saying, especially about Dungey being no stoop - but these texts and pics were entered into evidence. The jury is made up of law-abiding citizens, and they must be horrified at this cunning and senseless murder of another law-abiding citizen. It could have been one of them, if they had the wrong truck advertised at the wrong time. To add to all that, they have listened to callous, self-serving witnesses, and that includes MS, who has expressed no remorse for his role. These items needed to be addressed by Dungey, IMO, or the jury will likely find they are indeed damning.

All IMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's so interesting how different people see things differently. There was another person on a previous thread who says they were there for the first day of his testimony who found him credible and remorseful. It must be so tense in jury rooms sometimes when average people try to reconcile their views. Somehow in the end the mostly seem to get it right.

I think it's rather fascinating really that an entire group of people can hear/see the exact same thing and come away with so many different opinions on it. I do think what has been reported as MS's testimony is believable, but I also question if I had been in the courtroom myself and watched his body language, facial expression, heard his tone of voice, etc., if I'd still have the same opinion. Following trial on twitter is good, but it removes all those other forms of communication and that's really unfortunate.

A perfect example of what I'm talking about, is when your kid lies to you. They can say all the right things and give a 100% believable story but... for that one thing they do when they're lying. Maybe they blink a lot more, or start messing with their hair, or their cheeks get flushed, etc. If my kid's story was being delivered through twitter, lol, I might believe it. But if I saw her messing with her hair while she was telling the story, she'd be grounded before she finished the story.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Didn't he also say MS would say things of a very violent nature and that he was a little scared of MS?

TD showed a character reference from MS's teacher (when he was incarcerated and clean) but BD's character reference is likely more true to how he was at the time of these events.

Moo

Something has struck me funny with BD'S testimony from day one.
So if MS was SO violent in nature and he was scared of him, why did he continue to hang out with him daily? Also wasn't there a Court no contact order in place for their mutual mischief charge? Or did I misread that?

 

[andreww]

You can explain anything if you are just making stuff up. The truth shows itself when there are just too many things that need explaining. If these texts didn't exist I'd say Smich should probably be found guilty, but there is a bunch of incriminating stuff, he's obviously lying about the gun and IMO he's lying about what happened at the field.

Wait til Monday, I think you'll change your opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JuneBug67]

I think it's rather fascinating really that an entire group of people can hear/see the exact same thing and come away with so many different opinions on it. I do think what has been reported as MS's testimony is believable, but I also question if I had been in the courtroom myself and watched his body language, facial expression, heard his tone of voice, etc., if I'd still have the same opinion. Following trial on twitter is good, but it removes all those other forms of communication and that's really unfortunate.

That's both the brilliance and the curse of the jury system in a way - we bring our own experience with us everywhere we go, and we are unavoidably egocentric in our perception of the world.

Anyway, for those who missed it this was the summary of a person who attended the first day of Smich's testimony who found him credible. For those who missed billandrew's recent post, he was also there and did not find Smich credible.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ich-Defence-commences&p=12548979#post12548979

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I have missed the discussions on here this week because I've been attending the trial each day and then catching up at work during the evenings. Today I quickly skimmed through this week's threads and was shocked to find that so many people believe MS's story. I hope the jury isn't similarly fooled. His story, which conveniently removes him from the murder and the cleanup while pinning it all on DM, is extremely weak IMO. It contains numerous holes and fits awkwardly into the other evidence. What a liar this guy is. I'm looking forward to the Crown going up and ripping him to pieces next week. They will out his lies and make sure his true character -- a violent, evil killer who conspired with DM to murder the owner of a truck -- is revealed to all. JMO.

Billandrew, I sure hope you are correct! I will have NO problem admitting how wrong I was.

 

[Ontario Mom]

This all does make sense other than the fireworks and frying pan pic.

I mentioned yesterday that I wasn't here for the discussion on that frying pan/sausage issue so I really don't know what the context was as at all. Can someone summarize for me what the deal is there? Who sent texts/pics to who, and what was said, exactly, and in what context?

 

[Ontario Mom]

That's both the brilliance and the curse of the jury system in a way - we bring our own experience with us everywhere we go, and we are unavoidably egocentric in our perception of the world.

Anyway, for those who missed it this was the summary of a person who attended the first day of Smich's testimony who found him credible. For those who missed billandrew's recent post, he was also there and did not find Smich credible.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ich-Defence-commences&p=12548979#post12548979

Thanks for posting that. It was posted late at night and I don't usually read the late late or overnight posts.

 

[JuneBug67]

I mentioned yesterday that I wasn't here for the discussion on that frying pan/sausage issue so I really don't know what the context was as at all. Can someone summarize for me what the deal is there? Who sent texts/pics to who, and what was said, exactly, and in what context?

This is Molly Hayes. Texts are May 3, and it's not clear what if any gaps in time there are between them. YYM is Smich.

Text from YYM: can Marlena reach and chill with Pedo while we do our thing?" YYM sends a photo. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Oh sorry there are two photos from YYM. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
First looks like a tree trunk carved into some sort of bench? Second is of painted tree stump stools? #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
More texts from YYM. Sends another photo, this time of sausages in a frying pan... #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Millard texts he just finished a 6hr mtg at the hangar. YYM asks him to come scope some of these things and mentions "'missions and more." Apr 19, 2016
YYM says "speaking of scope" he needs some of that mouthwash with the fluoride. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Millard phone: "I'm reaching your ways now, ete 50mins." YYM: ok. Millard phone: "be - love you <3" Millard then texts to Lisa. Apr 19, 2016

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Didn't MS say one of the things they were "scoping out" was whether the truck had GPS? Maybe Igor's (being a newer model) had it? It seems that after the incident with the GPS on the bobcat leading to the police arriving at the hanger, they were aware this could be an issue. Do we know if TB's Ram had GPS?

Also, someone mentioned about these trucks needing a special chipped key (sorry, I'm not sure who it was, or I would give you credit for this info!) Do we know how far back in model years it goes before this became a standard feature? Is it possible that these keys were optional for the years they were scouting, but whether the specific vehicle had them or not, might need to be "scoped out"? And if they didn't have the special keys, wouldn't they be easier to hotwire if you went back to steal it later? Sorry, I know absolutely nothing about stealing cars, I'm just trying to understand.

Really all just questions, and I don't know anything, so all MOO.

thanks.

Mine is a 2003 and has the chip key. I don't know beyond our year when that started. From what I know, it wasn't something that was optional.

From different Dodge forums, the RFID SENTRY Computer chip Transponder key started in 1998.

 

[Errrr]

Actually wouldn't be that hard for someone the size of Millard to lift TBs skinny body. Same way firefighters do it.

View attachment 94442

DM isn't a firefighter, but still, I think they used he loader they arranged beforehand.

 

[JuneBug67]

This is Molly Hayes. Texts are May 3, and it's not clear what if any gaps in time there are between them. YYM is Smich.

Text from YYM: can Marlena reach and chill with Pedo while we do our thing?" YYM sends a photo. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Oh sorry there are two photos from YYM. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
First looks like a tree trunk carved into some sort of bench? Second is of painted tree stump stools? #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
More texts from YYM. Sends another photo, this time of sausages in a frying pan... #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Millard texts he just finished a 6hr mtg at the hangar. YYM asks him to come scope some of these things and mentions "'missions and more." Apr 19, 2016
YYM says "speaking of scope" he needs some of that mouthwash with the fluoride. #Bosma Apr 19, 2016
Millard phone: "I'm reaching your ways now, ete 50mins." YYM: ok. Millard phone: "be - love you <3" Millard then texts to Lisa. Apr 19, 2016

Reading this back to myself I am struck again that it would be very useful to see these photos. Another MSM tweeter said that the 'caption' in the photo was "fireside furniture". Was that Smich's caption, or was it part of the photo? Did he get these photos off the internet or did he snap them in his neighbours back yard and their significance to a mission is that he wants to steal them? Are frying sausages really the best analogy for incineration? I'm having my first crisis of doubt about this evidence and it is THE thing that pushed me to premeditation. Sigh.

Realizing that by not raising this Dungey effectively sends the message it is not significant evidence. If MS has a credible explanation if/when he's asked on cross...well...I just don't know.

 

[Errrr]

Do we know if Tim even wore a wedding ring?
Not all men do...

Didn't someone say there were studs or grommets left in there? From jeans or the sheet he was wrapped in? Either of those is only thin metal.

 

[Inspector_North]

Because DM is such a manipulating narcissist psycho, MS is coming across as normal. Considering MS as sincere with his testimony may be a relativity moment.

Like many have said, the easy part of his testimony is over, and now he will be tested during cross.

MOO

 

[slowsleuthy]

billandrew, I think it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, you are a member here whose opinion I always respect, value and appreciate. As you know I tend to be swayed often as more witnesses testify and more "stories" get told, but as much as I would like to believe, (and did for quite a long time), that MS was not involved in the planning and murder of TB, I am in the past week or so leaning in the direction that he was in on all aspects of it, IMO. You often bring clarity to the facts when you post, at least for me, and I just want to thank you for sharing your perspective. I trust it.

All MOO.

I believe his testimony is his effort to get his charges reduced, he's lying about the murder not being in the plans, him being in a state of shock, not helping load the incinerator, can't remember where he buried the gun, and the toolbox being unloaded to him unexpectedly, blah blah blah, lies and half truths, moo.

 

[JuneBug67]

Because DM is such a manipulating narcissist psycho, MS is coming across as normal. Considering MS as sincere with his testimony may be a relativity moment.

Like many have said, the easy part of his testimony is over, and now he will be tested during cross.

MOO

Somebody made the point weeks ago that trying them together was not fair to MS. I replied at the time that I thought it was hugely beneficial to him for just that reason. Comparatively speaking, he not a psychopath you want to punch in the face over and over again!

 

[brightii]

I mentioned yesterday that I wasn't here for the discussion on that frying pan/sausage issue so I really don't know what the context was as at all. Can someone summarize for me what the deal is there? Who sent texts/pics to who, and what was said, exactly, and in what context?

I can't copy and paste tweets from my iPad to summarize, so I've linked a page where several posts about the fireside furniture and sausages in a frying pan texts are mentioned - no pics have been published anywhere, IMO. What stood out to me is that a poster, gremlingirl, seems to have been really affected by what those texts from MS suggested and I don't know if she's ever posted again, IMO. Her post is #74.

I thought at the time, and for some time after that these texts/pics could have had another explanation, but revisiting those pages in the older thread today, I'm inclined to believe they did have a sick connotation and I think in light of the BBQ texts etc., they were in reference to the incinerator, IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?305500-Bosma-Murder-Trial-04-19-16-Day-37/page5

I think the first mention begins on page 4 but re-reading the thread from the beginning was helpful to me. HTH.

All MOO.