Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #14

[MrsThreadgoode]

Do we know if Tim even wore a wedding ring?
Not all men do...

Yes, Tim did wear a wedding ring ...

http://www.chch.com/tim-bosma-son-husband-remembered/


"Sharlene Bosma still wears her wedding rings. Still considers herself married. And because any of Tim’s belongings recovered by investigators are evidence — she had a replica of Tim’s wedding ring that fits her finger. It’s another way she keeps him close — after the worst year of her life."

 

[canadiangirl]

Okay, Im officially doomed - I just can't seem to disconnect from here today. :tantrum: Now I'm recalling the Crown's opening statement and IIRC they said TB died from a gunshot wound inside the truck after a struggle - have I got this right? If so, I wonder if TB began panicking around the Kemira site and threw his phone out of the window in the midst of a struggle with the driver DM? DM may then have completely lost it on TB and shot him and then pulled over to the Bobcat site to change the plates etc before continuing to the farm? I'm not sure if they would have passed Kemira before the Bobcat or after as I'm terrible with geography and I don't know the area at all. Also, since it was pitch black outside by then, maybe DM and MS tried to find where TB tossed the phone and couldn't find it, or maybe in the aftershock of his murder with adrenaline rushing, they forgot to search for the phone or didn't think it was that important to go after?

All MOO.

Curious how they would know about a struggle. It's the first time I've picked up on this.....

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[canadiangirl]

Igor lived in a high rise. Maybe the truck was parked in a secure underground parking facility like some places have. JMO.

I don't recall exactly what they say, but I thought the texts from the first truck owner - The one that slept through the test drive time - Stored his truck outside. The texts seemed to make note of this and I always thought, why bothering test driving a vehicle your going to steal when there is one just sitting there for the taking.

Didn't they test drive them to see about GPS and on star?

 

[brightii]

Funny how the tides turn.......For the record I never questioned you on the pics, bc I really didn't see the significance of them.....but I did question many other things

And now it's your turn to bring me down from the fence. I am surprised myself at my reaction to MS's testimony. Because, as you know, I said minimum of second degree and possibly even first after the Crown had rested....I hope the cross examinations bring clarity for me (and any others who have found themselves in this uncomfortable position) MOO

I think you and I and all of us here will be able to feel right about whatever final decision we each arrive at once the cross's are done and the closing addresses, and the Judge's instructions to the jury are read, IMO. I hate having spent time in a state of limbo about MS because I am quite opinionated and I usually can make up my mind and feel confident about it, IMO. About MS's guilt I have vacillated, sometimes in the course of the same day, but I just trust that at the end of the trial process I'll be comfortable with the final opinion I've formed. I don't usually react well when people try to force me off of a fence position, but I do pay attention to everything I read and it has had influence on me, just as you have had influence on me too. Just trust yourself and the manner and pace of your own analysis, and you will make up your mind about MS when you're ready and when it feels right. There's still more info to come and more time to assess it, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[don_quixote]

It seems that MS's direct examination stirred quite some emotions. Of course the direct examination presents him as a lost sheep. No reason to be emotional about it. Wait for the cross examinations.

What I find really puzzling is that so many posters talk about the "ship that sailed" for Millard's testimony, at the same time they find MS's interpretation too gtood to be true. Honestly, when I read MS's direct exam, I think "If I just replace MS with DM and vice versa, then my opinion about the two would be an absolute mirror image". Look, let's be honest. It's a black box. All we know with certainty is that Tim Bosma went for a test drive and that he was killed and cremated. Who did what is hidden behind the veil. Only MS and DM know.

Let DM speak. Both are degenerates, IMO. But from MS's direct exam, I think he should do some serious time, but not over, say, 15 yrs. That's punishment enough. He should still catch some good time of his life. But not too much. I'd like to hear what Millard has to say, and there would be no justice for Tim Bosma if he doesn't speak. The family may have a different opinion and I respect that. But from what MS presented so far... All IMO, of course.

 

[canadiangirl]

A huge strategical error IMO. I expected Dungey to close his direct with exactly that. The jury needs to hear remorse if his client is to get second or less. Makes me really wonder about the abrupt cut off yesterday. Even the judge appeared surprised.

Curious how you know the judge seemed surprised?

 

[canadiangirl]

I disagree. Remorse suggests he feels guilty, and thats the last thing he wants to project.

He already said he didn't feel as though he was guilty...

 

[brightii]

Curious how they would know about a struggle. It's the first time I've picked up on this.....

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

I thought it was mentioned in the Crown's Opening Statement but as JuneBug67 pointed out, and as per a Toronto Star article that CJPRINCESS and I had both posted up thread, a struggle was mentioned by a source close to the investigation in the early days and it was not officially mentioned at trial, so I don't think we can place any importance on it. It was a detail that just stuck with me and I was mistaken about where I'd read it. Apologies for the confusion.

All MOO.

 

[canadiangirl]

billandrew, I think it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, you are a member here whose opinion I always respect, value and appreciate. As you know I tend to be swayed often as more witnesses testify and more "stories" get told, but as much as I would like to believe, (and did for quite a long time), that MS was not involved in the planning and murder of TB, I am in the past week or so leaning in the direction that he was in on all aspects of it, IMO. You often bring clarity to the facts when you post, at least for me, and I just want to thank you for sharing your perspective. I trust it.

All MOO.

I'm just curious and you don't have to answer. Why did you not want to believe MS was involved in the planning and murder?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Curious how they would know about a struggle. It's the first time I've picked up on this.....

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

I recall reading "after a struggle" and simply assumed the level of violence indicated in the cab presented as a struggle of some sort. The front passenger window shattered, blood evidence on the door, dash and floor, plus the stripped seats & seat belts. Although, usually when I read something worded like "a source close to the investigation stated" I take that with a large boulder of salt. If "source" goes on record with name & professional title, then fine. If not, I usually don't take it as fact.

 

[ILoveDateline]

Didn't they test drive them to see about GPS and on star?

Yes, thanks. I forgot MS testified to that.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I recall reading "after a struggle" and simply assumed the level of violence indicated in the cab presented as a struggle of some sort. The front passenger window shattered, blood evidence on the door, dash and floor, plus the stripped seats & seat belts. Although, usually when I read something worded like "a source close to the investigation stated" I take that with a large boulder of salt. If "source" goes on record with name & professional title, then fine. If not, I usually don't take it as fact.

You just reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask. We never did find out how the rearview mirror got broken off, did we?

 

[SnooperDuper]

So ... If I'm understanding the way the rest of the process works, the Crown may have introduced the texts hoping the jury would get the gist, BUT:

1) They can't ask either defendant what it meant, not even now that MS has given testimony. Correct?

2) DM's lawyers would have to be crazy to bring it up

So ... It's basically going to remain in the state it's currently in, pretty damning seeming but without further elaboration?

No idea what the jury will make of it. I don't remember gremlin girl's post but I remember being shocked and posting something or other, and being surprised at the lack of other comments at the time it came in.

And the press not making a bigger deal of it doesn't really mean anything since the jury isn't supposed to be reading the news coverage, I assume.

I suppose the Crown could bring it up again in close? Or do I have that wrong.

(What I'm doing here is both trying to guess how the jury reacted, and figure out if they will have further exposure to the info.)

The Crown is doing the cross exam so they are free to bring the pictures up. MS is going to have to explain himself.

 

[Ontario Mom]

He already said he didn't feel as though he was guilty...

Indeed, because he claims he neither shot nor disposed of Tim Bosma. In which case, if actually true, he'd feel a lot of things (fear, confusion and disgust among them) but he wouldn't feel guilty for something he didn't do.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Indeed, because he claims he neither shot nor disposed of Tim Bosma. In which case, if actually true, he'd feel a lot of things (fear, confusion and disgust among them) but he wouldn't feel guilty for something he didn't do.

But so many others wept or bowed their heads with guilt because they did not go to police immediately.

 

[brightii]

I'm just curious and you don't have to answer. Why did you not want to believe MS was involved in the planning and murder?

As I said, I truly don't know why, but it may be an emotional response upon hearing from all the other witnesses in the crew who I don't see that much different to MS, IMO. I think in general the crime is so completely shocking and the victim chosen so randomly, that it is really disturbing to think that anyone could have premeditated such a heinous and cold-blooded crime, IMO. I am thoroughly convinced though that DM is seriously depraved, and perhaps because for the majority of the trial the focus was on DM and little time spent on MS, I came to believe that he had played a less active role in the murder, IMO. I don't follow trials like so many of you here do, so I don't have the experience others here may, but I do think my initial instincts about MS were wrong and based more on wishful thinking than anything.

All MOO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

The Crown is doing the cross exam so they are free to bring the pictures up. MS is going to have to explain himself.

Ok, at some point in the last few days I got the impression that the only things that could be brought up in cross were things that MS had actually mentioned in his direct testimony. So like, they could try to get more clarity on the eliminator part, but not stuff that had been given by other witnesses (like electronic communications). This should definitely be interesting,

 

[canadiangirl]

I thought it was mentioned in the Crown's Opening Statement but as JuneBug67 pointed out, and as per a Toronto Star article that CJPRINCESS and I had both posted up thread, a struggle was mentioned by a source close to the investigation in the early days and it was not officially mentioned at trial, so I don't think we can place any importance on it. It was a detail that just stuck with me and I was mistaken about where I'd read it. Apologies for the confusion.

All MOO.

No worries. I thought I recalled the same but after thinking about it wondered with what evidence they could determine that

 

[ILoveDateline]

Yes, Tim did wear a wedding ring ...

http://www.chch.com/tim-bosma-son-husband-remembered/


"Sharlene Bosma still wears her wedding rings. Still considers herself married. And because any of Tim’s belongings recovered by investigators are evidence — she had a replica of Tim’s wedding ring that fits her finger. It’s another way she keeps him close — after the worst year of her life."

The article implies the ring was recovered by LE, however, doesn't explicitly say that. If LE did recover the ring, presumably from the eliminator, why wasn't that used to identify TBs remains? SB could positively ID the ring.

Not that it was necessary. IMO. It's assumed the remains are TB due to the bone fragment profiling and DNA on the outside of the eliminator. I'm just curious why that wouldn't have been used?

Did I miss something?

 

[ArianeEmory]

The article implies the ring was recovered by LE, however, doesn't explicitly say that. If LE did recover the ring, presumably from the eliminator, why wasn't that used to identify TBs remains? SB could positively ID the ring.

Not that it was necessary. IMO. It's assumed the remains are TB due to the bone fragment profiling and DNA on the outside of the eliminator. I'm just curious why that wouldn't have been used?

Did I miss something?

All I can say is that I'm 99% sure it never came up in the forensic testimony given about the eliminator. I think some of us were holding our breath waiting to hear.