Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #15

[Typhoo1961]

Would it be fair to say that from the perspective of MS and BD of 3 years ago..... clouded by weed ... they might expect the Bosma's to come after them just as they might some of their other friends eg MWJ in a similar situation.
Those of us not in cloud of weed will see it differently and think it unlikely.
is it really what MS thought, could be.
All MOO

They were probably paranoid from drug and alcohol use.

 

[Typhoo1961]

LE has said since the beginning that there were signs of a struggle.

I wonder what the signs of the struggle were and how LE could tell because by the time they got the truck it was pretty much torn apart and had been hosed down.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

<modsnip>

In trying to make sense of BD's statement about MS being afraid of the 'victim's friends I am left to either discount it as error, OR MS was afraid of the internet posse that popped up post abduction and was rooting around DM's, AM's, and MS's Facebook and other social media, OR as someone else pointed out (thanks for that) that MS was being all faux gangsta tough and putting on an image for BD. It is apparent MS did not fully engage BD with truths and seemed to put on an image for him.

 

[canadiangirl]

You can think what you want. But it's actual evidence that a sober Brendan Daly said in court that Smich was scared the victim's friends would come after him. Everything else is pure speculation and fantasy by random folks on a chatboard. That's an important distinction.

There is actual evidence in court that CN doesn't remember anything except fellatio. I take a lot of these comments with a grain of salt. IMO this is one of them.

 

[ABro]

Perhaps instead of tearing apart anyone that thinks differently about BD's testimony you can help us all figure out HOW it can possibly make any sense? A few of us are trying to make sense of it, not suggest it didn't exist we are all here to DISCUSS the case and discussion has two or more sides with input from all folks freely and not dismissive of others.

In trying to make sense of BD's statement about MS being afraid of the 'victim's friends I am left to either discount it as error, OR MS was afraid of the internet posse that popped up post abduction and was rooting around DM's, AM's, and MS's Facebook and other social media, OR as someone else pointed out (thanks for that) that MS was being all faux gangsta tough and putting on an image for BD. It is apparent MS did not fully engage BD with truths and seemed to put on an image for him.

Brendan Daly was a credible witness IMO. There is no reason to doubt his evidence that Mark Smich said what he said.

Whether Mark Smich's comment makes sense is a separate issue having nothing to do with Daly's credibility.

 

[Mscree]

I'm not sure we will be able to make sense of a lot that went on and what was said, it does seem odd since we are aware of the kind of man Mr Bosma was said to be by those who knew him. It could be something smich said to try and justify himself or his actions.

 

[brightii]

BD was not nervous. He was a very self-assured witness. Plus he was given his police interview notes to refresh his memory.

Also, BD doesn't have a reason to lie. MS does.

It's called tunnel vision when you refuse to accept evidence you don't like. I see that happening a lot among those struggling to believe MS's story. Everything that contradicts it is systematically dismissed.

bbm IIRC, you've stressed the point here before that the jury can pick and choose which parts of the evidence and witness testimonies they believe when considering their decision. I think that's what everyone here is attempting to do. Tunnel vision could explain why some people don't accept certain things, but it can just as easily be because they honestly find things questionable and therefore say so.

All MOO.

 

[cansleuther]

Perhaps MS was scared after watching the news and hearing TB's brother-in-law "threaten" the second suspect:

"We know they have more information but they're withholding that for life and death. If they release too much right now, that could be the end of Tim."

A police officer himself with Sarnia Police Services, Noordam had some strong words for those involved in Bosma's disappearance.

"Turn yourself in," he said. "We know who you are. We know where you are. We will find you. There's no hope for you."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/toronto-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-disappearance-1.1323652

 

[JuneBug67]

Given the full circumstances I think people are employing a great deal of common sense in questioning the reliability of Brendan's testimony, which the vast majority of people here seem to understand is completely separate from questioning his credibility.

 

[brightii]

Perhaps MS was scared after watching the news and hearing TB's brother-in-law "threaten" the second suspect:



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...arrested-in-tim-bosma-disappearance-1.1323652

Thanks so much for posting this link as the discussion here today made me recall that press conference with TB' brother-in-law and in the context of what BD testified to about what MS said to him about being afraid of TB's friends, it makes complete sense to me that it is very likely true.

"A police officer himself with Sarnia Police Services, Noordam had some strong words for those involved in Bosma's disappearance.

"Turn yourself in," he said. "We know who you are. We know where you are. We will find you. There's no hope for you."



All MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

:modstop:

Inflammatory posts have been removed or edited. We aren't here to discuss and/or insult other members. Stick to discussing the facts of the case and your opinion on the case, not your opinion of how other members think or post.

:tyou:

 

[JuneBug67]

Perhaps MS was scared after watching the news and hearing TB's brother-in-law "threaten" the second suspect:



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/toronto-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-disappearance-1.1323652

That's an interesting catch. Sort of an interesting confluence of a personal motivation that Brendan interpreted and the power of LE who indeed do not screw around in pursuing these things.

 

[Mscree]

Given the full circumstances I think people are employing a great deal of common sense in questioning the reliability of Brendan's testimony, which the vast majority of people here seem to understand is completely separate from questioning his credibility.

I never took him to be dishonest or a liar like some of the other witnesses thou

 

[JuneBug67]

I never took him to be dishonest or a liar like some of the other witnesses thou

That's the point. He can be telling the truth and still not convey the essence of the conversation such that it can be relied upon as accurate.

 

[hellkat2]

I cannot get past that they left the Yukon where they would have to go back for it after committing the intended crime. Please anybody....help me get around this.

 

[brightii]

That's the point. He can be telling the truth and still not convey the essence of the conversation such that it can be relied upon as accurate.

But according to Abro who saw and heard BD testify on the stand about what MS said about being afraid of TB's friends, BD did come across as a reliable witness. After reading the article posted today by cansleuther, it supports IMO what MS told BD and provides a plausible explanation why MS would fear the extremely dedicated and well-organized Bosma Army who were quickly and publicly stating that they were determined to find the suspects.

The high profile case that included constant media saturation along with the sheer magnitude of the police investigation and the highly effective and far-reaching social media campaign conducted by TB's friends and family, all combined is quite convincing to me that MS was fearful of them all, and rightly so, as MS was indeed caught thanks to the outstanding efforts of many and he was then charged with first degree murder.

All MOO.

 

[Abitcountry]

Went back over Smich's own words--

"These n... as are coming to get me. These guys don't f.... around. They are gonna come and get me.

Seems to me that Smich clearly has in mind who "these "n....as" are.
Seems to me that he has had previous experience with "these guys" because he clearly knows that "they don't f... around
Seems to me that he has no doubt what is coming down the pipe at him...."They are gonna come and get me."

--How could "These guys" possibly be the Bosma friends and family.....Smich had no previous knowlege of the Bosmas or how they would behave if they happened upon him ????
--"They don't f... around " has a much more sinister and dangerous threat to it .......the kind of thing one might expect from a gang of ****s and not from law abiding citizens.
--And there was no possible way that the Bosmas would have known of Smich in any way, shape or form nor his whereabouts when these words were spoken.....they would have posed no imminent threat to him at this time but the friends of DM would have.
--Daly's testimony makes no sense.....Smich having said it about the Bosmas makes no sense either. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

Just popping in here to say that yesterday I was grabbing a few groceries when I happened to notice lyrics that stood out in music that was playing in the store. I'm sorry for a very bad memory when it comes to names and exact words.. but it was lyrics that said 'gone, gone' (or could have been also, 'gone, gone, gone', not sure). It made me wonder if that is how MS reportedly said those words to MM, as in song, perhaps even singing the words from whichever song he may know the lyrics to. I looked up tunes that have those words and there are a few of them, at least one is a rap song too. Where previously it sounded like those words could have potentially been said remorsefully, I now wonder if they were instead 'sung', unremorsefully. Just a thought, thought I'd share it.

 

[rmoeller]

Signs of a struggle? Can you elaborate please? This is news to me.

I would think the truck would have swerved more than once if the driver was holding a gun on the passenger. LE has said since the beginning that there were signs of a struggle.

I have no idea how someone could drive and hold a gun on someone, personally. I hate to take my eyes off the road long enough to fool around with my stereo or GPS, and even then my eyes always have to keep darting back to the road.

MS's story would have made more sense if he said he saw a lot of erratic driving or if he said the truck pulled over and then he saw a flash and heard a shot.

 

[ABro]

Went back over Smich's own words--

"These n... as are coming to get me. These guys don't f.... around. They are gonna come and get me.

Seems to me that Smich clearly has in mind who "these "n....as" are.
Seems to me that he has had previous experience with "these guys" because he clearly knows that "they don't f... around
Seems to me that he has no doubt what is coming down the pipe at him...."They are gonna come and get me."

--How could "These guys" possibly be the Bosma friends and family.....Smich had no previous knowlege of the Bosmas or how they would behave if they happened upon him ????
--"They don't f... around " has a much more sinister and dangerous threat to it .......the kind of thing one might expect from a gang of ****s and not from law abiding citizens.
--And there was no possible way that the Bosmas would have known of Smich in any way, shape or form nor his whereabouts when these words were spoken.....they would have posed no imminent threat to him at this time but the friends of DM would have.
--Daly's testimony makes no sense.....Smich having said it about the Bosmas makes no sense either. IMO

Of course, the victim's friends weren't going to come and get Smich vigilante style. That doesn't mean that in his paranoid state, he didn't imagine it.