Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Inspector_North]

It certainly can be assumed that CN talked when she was finally arrested. The search warrant was 'specific' for the DVR. I think they 'knew' exactly where to find it. I think the defense successfully argued that the letters were seized outside the warrant and therefore are not going to be admissible evidence... The officer who testified about this seizure was blocked from mentioning the letters, followed by a long stretch of legal arguments. Doesn't matter though, the Jury heard about the letters during opening statement. I DO WONDER though if during CN's testimony it will come up again ...

I would be surprised if it didn't.

With CN, they will be revisiting the evening of the 9th

Hauling the truck
What they did at the farm - move Eliminator - use of Gloves for?
What did she know about the toolbox they dropped off
More about the DVR, and we may find out why she hid it for a year
The photo of the gun DM sent her
Text messages between her and DM around the time of the murder.
Text messages to others while with DM on the 9th
Who DM was referring to in the letter.

and most importantly, did she know what was in the trailer, and what she knew about its origins.

We may also be into a long question session about how DM was a big spender of a boyfriend, and that he was swimming in cash. He did pay for trips for her.

Of course, this is MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

I just went back to AJ's timeline.

He was off on the 7th
He went in on the 8th and the truck was on the tarp
He went back in on the 9th (Thurs) and took the pictures

"On Thursday, the truck was still there. Not seeing anyone around, Jennings took photos on his phone of the truck and vehicle information number, which is distinct for every vehicle." -NP


He met with SS and his wife after work on the 9th (What time?)
DM moves the truck to his mother's that evening
AJ goes back in on the 10th, truck is gone and DM's tells him to pack up.

So we don't know what the condition of the truck was on the morning of the 8th when AJ and SS turned up for work. The picture was taken a full 24 hrs. after that.

Can anyone tell if SS had already stripped the truck from the picture? He would of had to strip it after AJ was took pictures andend of work day on the 9th if this picture is before stripping. According to AJ, he met with SS after work on the 9th about the truck being TB's.


Was the truck still dripping from a wash on the morning of the 8th?

At first glance there appears to be something in the front passenger seat area <modsnip>
Case in point--try to locate the side mirror on the driver's door and then on the passenger's door. The mirror on the driver's door is picking up so many reflections that it does not look like a mirror at all....and the one on the passenger
door doesn't even look like it is something even attached to the truck--it looks more like something dark back up against the hangar wall.
Be assured that there are Photoshop programs that could clean up many of the reflections and certainly enough to determine if there were still seats in the front area of the truck. No doubt there have been forensic experts all over AJ's original pic and if what they saw did not match up with what he said we likely would have heard about it when he was on the stand.
It does not hurt any of us to take a second look at any of the evidence....and no one here has ever claimed to be an expert.....mistakes are going to happen and people are going to have misunderstood whole portions of what has seemed obvious to others<modsnip> So that's my 2 cents worth :twocents::twocents: .....

 

[jash]

Personally, I'd be driving by the airport and the hangar to see if there were any signs of something going on....and for sure I'd be on my cell phone fiddling with the app on and off all day long to see what I could see.....
Unless of course I already knew what was going on and the "airport politics" comment was code for 'the eagle has landed' or 'we got what we were after'.....and the 'stay away and don't even come for a tool' really meant we don't need your father-in-law poking around here today, so take the day off buddy.

Yes ITA. SS already knew what was meant by the text in the first place. JMO

Your posts are making me agree that SS did know what airport politics meant. His response to that message was "including me?" As if he were surprised not by the content of DM's text (after all, he didn't ask what was going on/what happened), but by the fact that he (SS) received it. He was concerned that he had done something to negatively impact DM (or DM's feelings about SS).

Speculation Warning:
It could be that SS knew of DM's plan to steal a diesel truck that weekend. IIRC, DM had texted SS earlier asking if he'd be coming in to work on Monday -- perhaps confirming that SS would be available to help with a 'hot' acquisition. But when the planned test drives didn't yield anything over the weekend, it was business as usual on Monday for SS (and I assume AJ, who otherwise may have received a message telling him to stay home).

On Monday night, when faced with a bloody truck and a body to dispose of, DM may have decided it was too big of a risk to bring SS into the fold at that point. My assumption is SS had proven to be trustworthy with stolen goods by then, but was unaware of DM's more serious criminal past and thus his loyalty untested in the face of more serious crime.

Once DM felt he and MS had sufficiently cleaned the truck/destroyed evidence, he had no qualms with SS, AJ and anyone else who came into the hangar seeing Tim's truck.

I hope we hear evidence at some point about internet searches/news articles accessed on DM's phone and computers about Tim's disappearance. Was he nervously following along, or was he confident and thinking he was untouchable? I'd also be curious about similar searches on SS's devices.


Link: http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-continues/ (aside: the video shows SS driving away from court - he's still got the black minivan)

 

[MsSherlock]

I think all the names specifically referenced in the phone exhibit will testify. So I'd add Spafford, Wishbone and Scott to your list.

I'm curious who Wishbone is. Aside for CN & MM, out of DM's list of BFF's, there's MH and AM. AP has indicated that these two will be on the stand this week. There's also mutual friends on AM's FB friends list that could be called, but unless they actually participated in the movement of the gun or something, I don't know what value they'd have aside for confirming that "Dell was rich".

Regardless of who the Crown has lined up, IMO, the most explosive part of the trial will be when CN and MM hit the stand. The defence teams are probably making their buckets of mud right now. Mr. Nice Rich guy has one person to look after and it's not going to be his sweet little helper. CN betrayed him by keeping the letters. CN is not stupid- after all, why did she keep those letters? Now CN knows that she's the only one out of DM's sleep pals facing charges. Matter of fact, aside for MS, she's the only one out of all of his pals facing charges. IMO, DM's going to see how tough CN is and we may see that the first attack on her by Sachak or Pillay backfires pretty fast. Things could get interesting! MOO

 

[jash]

Here's a slightly clearer image of Tim's truck inside the hangar.



Taken from: http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-continues/

 

[flipflop]

Here's a slightly clearer image of Tim's truck inside the hangar.

View attachment 91432

Taken from: http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-continues/

TY, I still see seats. This is JMO!!!!

 

[jash]

So being DM's mother, can the Crown/LE actually subpoena her? After all she wasn't even in town when DM parked the trailer in her driveway.

I'm asking because the case I was subpoenaed to, the guys mother had incriminating words to add but the Crown/LE couldn't subpoena her. They told me that she'd have to come forward on her own. The 2 brothers also had some information but again, they didn't get subpoenaed either. Even with me telling the LE the one brother COULD help their case better then I could.

Spouses have some clause where they don't have to testify against their spouse, is this the same with parents and siblings? I'm not really understanding how this works?

BBM - I'm not sure if this has been established as a fact.

One of the Kleinburg neighbours testified to seeing the door of MB's house open with lights on inside the night the trailer was dropped off. It could have been DM going into the house for something (assuming he had a key), or maybe it was MB coming out to see what was going on outside.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-at-home-of-dellen-millard-s-mother-1.3439791

 

[jash]

Bad luck DM:

Liked to make money
View attachment 91347
Never actually made any money

billandrew, you made me LOL!

Here's another "Bad luck DM" caption: Used burner phone. Forgot to turn off personal phone.

I was tempted to use a meme generator, but didn't think the mods would appreciate.

 

[MsSherlock]

Your posts are making me agree that SS did know what airport politics meant. His response to that message was "including me?" As if he were surprised not by the content of DM's text (after all, he didn't ask what was going on/what happened), but by the fact that he (SS) received it. He was concerned that he had done something to negatively impact DM (or DM's feelings about SS).

Speculation Warning:
It could be that SS knew of DM's plan to steal a diesel truck that weekend. IIRC, DM had texted SS earlier asking if he'd be coming in to work on Monday -- perhaps confirming that SS would be available to help with a 'hot' acquisition. But when the planned test drives didn't yield anything over the weekend, it was business as usual on Monday for SS (and I assume AJ, who otherwise may have received a message telling him to stay home).

On Monday night, when faced with a bloody truck and a body to dispose of, DM may have decided it was too big of a risk to bring SS into the fold at that point. My assumption is SS had proven to be trustworthy with stolen goods by then, but was unaware of DM's more serious criminal past and thus his loyalty untested in the face of more serious crime.

Once DM felt he and MS had sufficiently cleaned the truck/destroyed evidence, he had no qualms with SS, AJ and anyone else who came into the hangar seeing Tim's truck.

I hope we hear evidence at some point about internet searches/news articles accessed on DM's phone and computers about Tim's disappearance. Was he nervously following along, or was he confident and thinking he was untouchable? I'd also be curious about similar searches on SS's devices.

View attachment 91431
Link: http://www.chch.com/bosma-trial-continues/ (aside: the video shows SS driving away from court - he's still got the black minivan)

Makes sense to me. IMO, the riskiest part of DM's plan was to send the truck out to get painted. He needed to have the VIN switched before thus the window removal kit. Doesn't sound like SS was particularly talented in using the tool, so perhaps this was the first VIN number they switched? Nah...that doesn't sit right with me. I'm thinking that perhaps in the past they had assistance in removing the windshields to swap VIN's- a few bucks to an auto glass guy or something; however, this truck was "sooo hot" they had to do it themselves. SS didn't have a problem altering a stolen trailer and getting it registered.

I think you're onto something there suggesting SS was expecting to go to the hangar on the 7th. It also could imply that there was a Plan B in the event that DM had taken his auto theft to the next level. There was always a chance that a truck owner would just give DM and MS the keys and let them go for a spin. If that happened, they'd just steal the truck and park it in the hangar. DM would tell everyone except SS to stay home the day after. Then there was always the chance that DM would get the opportunity to satisfy his sick need to burn a human in his incinerator.

IMO, SS knew that something nefarious had gone down the minute he was told to stay home, but if DM didn't tell him anything, SS could play as dumb as a doornail. That's probably why he was so upset with AJ's discovery. "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". AJ messed the whole thing up. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

I wonder if we have seen it all!!

The DVR was supposedly disconnected and given to CN on May 9. We have seen a small glimpse of what was recorded from one entrance that shows DM & MS walking in on the night of May 6. That leaves whatever was captured on the 7th & 8th which sounds promising initially until I recall how little was actually seen given the weird angle of the camera.
And if that is not enough, there is no guarantee that the entrance used on May 6th is the one that is regularly used....there are no less than 4 doors in the north wall alone and additional ones on all 3 of the other sides...I guess anything is possible

 

[SnooperDuper]

The DVR was supposedly disconnected and given to CN on May 9. We have seen a small glimpse of what was recorded from one entrance that shows DM & MS walking in on the night of May 6. That leaves whatever was captured on the 7th & 8th which sounds promising initially until I recall how little was actually seen given the weird angle of the camera.
And if that is not enough, there is no guarantee that the entrance used on May 6th is the one that is regularly used....there are no less than 4 doors in the north wall alone and additional ones on all 3 of the other sides...I guess anything is possible

Sort of amazing that they only had one working security camera working in the building (that entrance), isn't it?

I worked for a tech company that experienced a break-in, and the week of, someone came and cut down the bullet-type security cameras (not inside domes) at the back of the building. (And, in the end it turned out to be an inside job!)

At Millardair, went over a week with almost no security and no one moved to fix anything.

 

[flipflop]

Sort of amazing that they only had one working security camera working in the building (that entrance), isn't it?

I worked for a tech company that experienced a break-in, and the week of, someone came and cut down the bullet-type security cameras (not inside domes) at the back of the building. (And, in the end it turned out to be an inside job!)

At Millardair, went over a week with almost no security and no one moved to fix anything.

Wouldn't the whole Waterloo Regional Airport have security around all of the hangers on their grounds?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Wouldn't the whole Waterloo Regional Airport have security around all of the hangers on their grounds?

It's not high security - they have a guard that drives around and checks on things, but overall it's pretty lax.

I always use the example of JB's pot plane - his Feb 2014 flight originated from Waterloo with some much mj on board that the pilots were wearing oxygen masks

I trust it's not much of a problem to evade security in general, there.

 

[Susanne]

Great posts this weekend, lots of food f or thought.

I wonder why the courts really want the "average Joe" to serve on juries? Too much room for errors in IMO. The courts demand professionals for every other aspect of a trial: Judge, Crown, Defence, LE, expert witnesses, court personnel but not the jury - obviously the most important aspect of any trial.
No more DNA confusion, etc. etc. just people who are professionally trained to weigh the facts presented.
Create some jobs, and let go the average juror who wants to perform their civic duty but really doesn't want to survive on payment of $40 per day.
Really....unless you are single, independently wealthy, have an inquisitive nature, an IQ over 80 and don't mind the hours I don't believe too many people want to serve on a jury, especially for a well know criminal case such as this.
I know which type of jury I would prefer if ever needed, the heck with being judged by my peers who may or may not understand the evidence.
Just observing the questions and answers being lobbed back and forth on WS have shown me that it will take a special person to arrive at the correct judgement of the evidence of a trial. Remember OJ, Casey Anthony and several others.

On that note, I still can't get out of my head the fact that DM appears to have total control of all of WM assets, although this appears to have changed to MB after the arrest of DM. Power of attorney or something else. Actually I think I did read that MB got POA for DM, which would appear he was the Executor of WM's will.

I have read several times that MB, as well as DM, was present in the house when WM was killed by a gunshot. Why was MB there? Who shot WM?
WM's demise was treated as a suicide for the longest time, then suddenly DM is charged with his murder. No word from MB.

BUT, MB will, in IMO, questionably pay people who are called as witnesses to her son's trial for murder of TB.
And her son, who IMO, murders a man and steals his truck, feels the safest place to hide said truck is in his Mother's driveway miles away. Really?
And now the testimony of SS appears conveniently very slanted toward the betterment of DM.

 

[leafs_fan93]

I have absolutely zero knowledge of real estate, rates, etc. so I have zero to add to that particular angle but I was wondering if anyone else wonders about the sack of cell phones as much as I do? If they had 100% nothing to do with this case, they wouldn't have been brought up, would they?

Initially I didn't think too much about them, mostly because I too have a reusable shopping bag in my closet with 4 or 5 old cell phones. But after thinking about it, I wonder if these are how MS was linked to the LB disappearance? Perhaps some old text messages on one of those old, forgotten about cell phones. There was never any "heat" so to speak regarding her disappearance, so after months go by, you forget those messages are even there. All just speculation on my part however.

 

[MsSherlock]

Great posts this weekend, lots of food f or thought.

I wonder why the courts really want the "average Joe" to serve on juries? Too much room for errors in IMO. The courts demand professionals for every other aspect of a trial: Judge, Crown, Defence, LE, expert witnesses, court personnel but not the jury - obviously the most important aspect of any trial.
No more DNA confusion, etc. etc. just people who are professionally trained to weigh the facts presented.
Create some jobs, and let go the average juror who wants to perform their civic duty but really doesn't want to survive on payment of $40 per day.
Really....unless you are single, independently wealthy, have an inquisitive nature, an IQ over 80 and don't mind the hours I don't believe too many people want to serve on a jury, especially for a well know criminal case such as this.
I know which type of jury I would prefer if ever needed, the heck with being judged by my peers who may or may not understand the evidence.
Just observing the questions and answers being lobbed back and forth on WS have shown me that it will take a special person to arrive at the correct judgement of the evidence of a trial. Remember OJ, Casey Anthony and several others.

On that note, I still can't get out of my head the fact that DM appears to have total control of all of WM assets, although this appears to have changed to MB after the arrest of DM. Power of attorney or something else. Actually I think I did read that MB got POA for DM, which would appear he was the Executor of WM's will.

I have read several times that MB, as well as DM, was present in the house when WM was killed by a gunshot. Why was MB there? Who shot WM?
WM's demise was treated as a suicide for the longest time, then suddenly DM is charged with his murder. No word from MB.

BUT, MB will, in IMO, questionably pay people who are called as witnesses to her son's trial for murder of TB.
And her son, who IMO, murders a man and steals his truck, feels the safest place to hide said truck is in his Mother's driveway miles away. Really?
And now the testimony of SS appears conveniently very slanted toward the betterment of DM.

I wouldn't be too certain that DM still has possession of WM's assets. IMHO, that could be why LW2 is supplying info to an accountant right now. WM has a family outside of DM, and upon divorce, MB would not be considered to be a beneficiary, so IMO, the money that WM had put into the hangar along with his interest in Maple Gate plus the 1Million dollar mortgage that he held on Riverside would be of interest to the remaining legal beneficiaries. Exactly what does that leave DM-after he pays his legal bills, his mom, LW2 and everyone else. The party may be over. MOO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

SS said DM drove the truck to the hanger by sitting on a pail as there were no seats.

However FIL has a pic of the truck and it has seats.

Does SS really think that people believe his testimony?????

You're busted SS, telling a lie on the stand means that the karma bus is going to hit you hard....or has it already?!?

I thought it had seats at that time as well, see arrow in attached pic. I had thought that all along unless someone can describe what it is we are seeing in AJ pic from the 8th. It sure looks like a headrest to me. JMO

 

[Prairie_dawg]

Makes sense to me. IMO, the riskiest part of DM's plan was to send the truck out to get painted. He needed to have the VIN switched before thus the window removal kit. Doesn't sound like SS was particularly talented in using the tool, so perhaps this was the first VIN number they switched? Nah...that doesn't sit right with me. I'm thinking that perhaps in the past they had assistance in removing the windshields to swap VIN's- a few bucks to an auto glass guy or something; however, this truck was "sooo hot" they had to do it themselves. SS didn't have a problem altering a stolen trailer and getting it registered.

...

In the past they may have simply smashed the windshields to get what they needed. Then order a new one in the $15k a month SS and DM spent on 'stuff'. I recall seeing them trash a Mustang windshield on purpose, in a FB video when there were removing its engine. I suspect given the need to get the truck painted asap, he wanted an intact windshield in and fast. As well Baja was approaching and it could take a day or so to track down a new windshield, which may also have raised suspicion ie someone looking for that particular RAM windshield days after TB went missing. MOO

 

[flipflop]

]It's not high security[/B] - they have a guard that drives around and checks on things, but overall it's pretty lax.

I always use the example of JB's pot plane - his Feb 2014 flight originated from Waterloo with some much mj on board that the pilots were wearing oxygen masks

I trust it's not much of a problem to evade security in general, there.

That is a scary thought, in this day and age, considering they have various airlines that fly in from various countries.

 

[SnooperDuper]

That is a scary thought, in this day and age, considering they have various airlines that fly in from various countries.

You can generally only go Canada, US, Caribbean from there.