Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[matou]

Thanks, Snooper. I was thinking that since criminal law is federal legislation in Canada, that the two murder cases would fall under a single, federal jurisdiction. I've been searching for further reading on this but have had no luck.

I've also been looking at the Paul Bernardo trial. Didn't his offenses take place across multiple jurisdictions? AFAIK he had one trial for all of his offenses.

Aside from his many many horrible rapes, I think the three murders occurred within Niagara Regional Police juristiction.

 

[MsSherlock]

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I have nothing to add to the real estate discussions but want to point out that of the three businesses they (WM+DM) owned one was Millard Properties Ltd .... so it stands to reason that trips to the lumber store , or hiring people to do renovations , building decks , or buying miles of garden hose had absolutely nothing to do with airplanes and I find it strange that was not even pointed out in court.

That could very well include the farm , backhoes and bobcats , plans for houses and workshops , those things all fall within the functions of a property holding company , and is the wise thing to do for tax purposes , and keeps separate records from anything aviation .

And as far as I remember the 6-plex rental unit was the original home of Carl and then it was assigned to DM . Point is that 6 units at $2000 per month brings $144,000 per year less taxes and maintenance could earn DM over $100,000 a year , and if he was also on salary with the aviation division , and if he lived at home and WM paid all the bills DM could easily end up with a substantial bank account of his own after a couple of years .... maybe even enough to pay cash for the farm.

So if that is the case it means DM was not sitting around doing absolutely nothing while drawing big wages from the hangar. At the very least DM was a property manager of his own real estate and derived his own income from it. I am thinking that when WM needed working capital for the new MRO maybe they had to pledge the 6-plex as security and that could have caused some friction between them if DM's assets were now on the line.

Sloppy bookkeeping aside , even Villada Homes fits nicely within a property management company , I find it strange the defense lawyers did not point that out . Instead it is portrayed as a weird airplane company running garden hoses all night while planning to build a deck.

The Riverside 6 plex was an excellent income property. Originally in DM & WM's name, IIRC, it was transferred to DM's solely with a 1M mortgage in WM's favour after CM died. Not many 29 years old are making 100K a year before they even get out of bed. DM's tastes were much more lavish than that. He wouldn't feel rich. He needed to feel like the Boss. His planes, his cars, the ability to buy whatever he wanted, to have people work for him. DM was feeding a sickness. IMO, WM set up Millard Properties for the tax benefits. Doesn't seem like any properties were registered to it. I don't remember LW1 mentioning doing the books for both Millardair and Millard Properties. Kind of looks like it was all mixed in together and the accountants would make the entries at the end of the year to minimize taxes. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks Snooper .... (I could be wrong) but I think the Riverside property was where Carl and Della lived when the airline was thriving , I think Wayne was raised there , then CM bought Maplegate and turned Riverside into rental units.

WM inherited Maplegate and DM got Riverside and WM ran the old hangar rental business until the new MRO idea.

I may not have that exactly right. Anyway , the point I was trying to make was there was more than just a hangar business , there was also a completely separate property division thus many of DM's actions should be considered normal , not abnormal , not that it matters to me but if I was a lawyer I would have pointed that out.

WM grew up in the "tiny bungalow at 127 St. Clements Avenue" according to CM's obit http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/Deaths.20061125.93074074/BDAStory/BDA/deaths

It's not a bungalow anymore (rebuild) <modsnip> but you can see that the lot is miniscule.

Maybe the lawyers didn't want to go there because they didn't want a discussion of what was going on on the property side. JV and DM have someone after them in small claims court:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc1218/2014onsc1218.html?resultIndex=18

 

[mskrisc]

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Anyone know for sure who is who in this video ??

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[video=youtube;oavEKN_Iw6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavEKN_Iw6I[/video]

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The guy in the green T-Shirt acts like he would be the mechanic (Andrew Michalski) yet he has been identified as Shane Schlatman in other pictures.

There is also a picture of SS leaving the court and he looks more like the guy on the right in the video http://www.newspaperpost.com/tag/shane-schlatman/

.

That's Shane Schlatman, without a doubt

 

[billandrew]

The Riverside 6 plex was an excellent income property. Originally in DM & WM's name, IIRC, it was transferred to DM's solely with a 1M mortgage in WM's favour after CM died. Not many 29 years old are making 100K a year before they even get out of bed. DM's tastes were much more lavish than that. He wouldn't feel rich. He needed to feel like the Boss. His planes, his cars, the ability to buy whatever he wanted, to have people work for him. DM was feeding a sickness. IMO, WM set up Millard Properties for the tax benefits. Doesn't seem like any properties were registered to it. I don't remember LW1 mentioning doing the books for both Millardair and Millard Properties. Kind of looks like it was all mixed in together and the accountants would make the entries at the end of the year to minimize taxes. MOO

Millard Properties likely owned the hangar and held the lease on the airport land. It is common for businesses to hold real estate and other property in a separate corporation from the operating side of the business. The primary reason is liability protection, but there are tax and other considerations as well.

I would not expect any of DM's residential rental properties to have been owned in any of the corporations. Without any information to state otherwise, I would guess that DM owned his rental properties personally.

 

[Alethea Dice]

WM grew up in the "tiny bungalow at 127 St. Clements Avenue" according to CM's obit http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/Deaths.20061125.93074074/BDAStory/BDA/deaths

It's not a bungalow anymore (rebuild) <modsnip> but you can see that the lot is miniscule.

Maybe the lawyers didn't want to go there because they didn't want a discussion of what was going on on the property side. JV and DM have someone after them in small claims court:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc1218/2014onsc1218.html?resultIndex=18

<modsnip>

 

[Alethea Dice]

Millard Properties likely owned the hangar and held the lease on the airport land. It is common for businesses to hold real estate and other property in a separate corporation from the operating side of the business. The primary reason is liability protection, but there are tax and other considerations as well.

I would not expect any of DM's residential rental properties to have been owned in any of the corporations. Without any information to state otherwise, I would guess that DM owned his rental properties personally.

Agree.

Effective April 1, 2015 Regional Council approved Penmore Holdings Inc. request to assume the lease of the hangar owned and operated by Millard Properties Limited.

http://www.waterlooairport.ca/en/newslist/index.aspx?corpId=gzyzez7QxwumqjwReGz9VgeQuAleQuAl&newsId=i52UZ5lA5HLr92zhurNRq1BvcgeQuAleQuAl

 

[Sphinx]

DM wanted the truck. He told several people he wanted a diesel right? He thought he had unsolvable cash flow problems. Therefore he intended to steal the truck (bringing a gun, using a fake name, burner phone) . Doesn't it speak to the intent? (It could also be intent to murder to others' points) but the truck was a prize in either case and the desire for the truck and the perceived cash flow problems back that up.



This link talks about the mens rea or guilty mind/intent as a necessary component to convict.
http://www.lawlessons.ca/lesson-plans/2.1.definition-and-principles

I don't think they ever intended to leave a witness alive who had seen them up close for an extended period of time, and who would press charges for theft. Also they likely would have been charged with kidnapping since Tim went on the test drive. I think Igor, and the other man who was called about a test drive, but who missed the call, know the same thing might have happened to them. Igor, and his memory of the ambition tattoo was really the beginning of their capture. IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks, WM may have grown up on Clements but we can't be posting pics and links to what is now private property owned by others who are not connected in any way to this case.

 

[billandrew]

I don't think they ever intended to leave a witness alive who had seen them up close for an extended period of time, and who would press charges for theft. Also they likely would have been charged with kidnapping since Tim went on the test drive. I think Igor, and the other man who was called about a test drive, but who missed the call, know the same thing might have happened to them. Igor, and his memory of the ambition tattoo was really the beginning of their capture. IMO

Does anyone recall from SB's or WDB's testimony if the two men coming up the driveway of the Bosma residence saw them standing in the garage having a smoke? Did they exchange words? Or did SB and WDB just watch them from a distance? Perhaps DM and MS never knew anyone besides TB had seen them?

 

[flipflop]

I wonder if his Mother, MB showed up to support him, or has she turned on him too like her brother, the Vet. RB ? If she is a witness, then she has to stay away from court, until she testifies, but if she never testifies ( and I think she might, because the trailer was in her driveway ), then we know that she has more or less disowned her only child, and serial killer son. I could not blame her if that is the case. It will be very hard for her, and her family socially now in the area where they are now living. I imagine she is not welcome in many social circles anymore, and that she has few friends, if any, left. She may not want to lose her brother too. IMO

If I were in MB's shoes, I would not want to show my face in court, I would want to hide from the media and it would be too heartwrenching to sit in the same room as the Bosma family knowing that your son is the cause! If she is not testifying, I understand why she is no where to be seen.

 

[flipflop]

Aside from his many many horrible rapes, I think the three murders occurred within Niagara Regional Police juristiction.

The disgraceful Colonel committed rapes/murders and break in's in several different jurisiticions and it was one case. However, he did plead guilty.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks, Snooper. I was thinking that since criminal law is federal legislation in Canada, that the two murder cases would fall under a single, federal jurisdiction. I've been searching for further reading on this but have had no luck.

I've also been looking at the Paul Bernardo trial. Didn't his offenses take place across multiple jurisdictions? AFAIK he had one trial for all of his offenses.

While the Criminal Code applies to all of Canada, it is administered by the individual provinces, and trials are held in the jurisdication where the crime occurred (unless there is a change of venue for some reason)

 

[Sillybilly]

The disgraceful Colonel committed rapes/murders and break in's in several different jurisiticions and it was one case.

He pled guilty and it was probably in the interests of the administration of justice to have only the one trial. IMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Millard Properties likely owned the hangar and held the lease on the airport land. It is common for businesses to hold real estate and other property in a separate corporation from the operating side of the business. The primary reason is liability protection, but there are tax and other considerations as well.

I would not expect any of DM's residential rental properties to have been owned in any of the corporations. Without any information to state otherwise, I would guess that DM owned his rental properties personally.

Correct. Maple Gate was in both WM & DM's name, Roseville Farm, Woodbridge Condo in DM's name and Riverside multi - transferred to DM for 1.1M and mortgage on title in favour of WM for 1M.

"The assignment of the lease comes after Millard Properties sold the hangar to the group. Wood said they have been working with Millard Properties for about two years to have them sell the hangar &#8211; the deal closes April 24."

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...or-former-millard-hangar-at-regional-airport/

Then there was Millard Holdings "
A cherry red 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 was registered to Millard Holdings Ltd., an amalgamated company formerly helmed by his late grandfather, Carl Millard, and father Wayne Millard."

Remaining aircraft were registered to Millardair Inc.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...n=|MILLARD|&tn=||&ln=||&fn=||&rfr2=RchHs.aspx

But most telling was this tweet from AC- it went right over my head on the day LW1 was on the stand.

"Williams says she "still does a little bit of work" for MillardAir and Millard properties, gathering paperwork for a chartered accountant. She's being paid hourly, doing about 10 hours a month."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...f-dellen-millard-s-company-disputed-1.3463996

A year after Chartright purchased the Hangar and many months after all of the real estate has been liquidated, LW1 is still working approximately 10 hours a month gathering "paperwork" for a "chartered accountant". IMHO, that means they're still trying to sort everything out. Almost sounds like a forensic audit happening. MOO

 

[billandrew]

While the Criminal Code applies to all of Canada, it is administered by the individual provinces, and trials are held in the jurisdication where the crime occurred (unless there is a change of venue for some reason)

Thanks sillybilly. So, all else equal, if Babcock was killed in Ancaster then DM and MS would be facing a single trial for both murders?

Pro-tip to future serial killers: kill each victim in a different city.

 

[matou]

The disgraceful Colonel committed rapes/murders and break in's in several different jurisiticions and it was one case.

He pled guilty though. He gave a statement of facts and was sentenced. Not the same.

ETA: sorry I see Sillybilly also replied with similar response.

 

[billandrew]

Correct. Maple Gate was in both WM & DM's name, Roseville Farm, Woodbridge Condo in DM's name and Riverside multi - transferred to DM for 1.1M and mortgage on title in favour of WM for 1M.

"The assignment of the lease comes after Millard Properties sold the hangar to the group. Wood said they have been working with Millard Properties for about two years to have them sell the hangar – the deal closes April 24."

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...or-former-millard-hangar-at-regional-airport/

Then there was Millard Holdings "
A cherry red 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 was registered to Millard Holdings Ltd., an amalgamated company formerly helmed by his late grandfather, Carl Millard, and father Wayne Millard."

Remaining aircraft were registered to Millardair Inc.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...n=|MILLARD|&tn=||&ln=||&fn=||&rfr2=RchHs.aspx

But most telling was this tweet from AC- it went right over my head on the day LW1 was on the stand.

"Williams says she "still does a little bit of work" for MillardAir and Millard properties, gathering paperwork for a chartered accountant. She's being paid hourly, doing about 10 hours a month."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...f-dellen-millard-s-company-disputed-1.3463996

A year after Chartright purchased the Hangar and many months after all of the real estate has been liquidated, LW1 is still working approximately 10 hours a month gathering "paperwork" for a "chartered accountant". IMHO, that means they're still trying to sort everything out. Almost sounds like a forensic audit happening. MOO

I don't envy the chartered accountant who has to sort out LW's "bookkeeping".

 

[brightii]

I wonder if Dungey will pick up on the security cameras testimony in his cross of SS on Monday?

I know that SS and his wife got new phones on May 7th, the day DM told SS and others to stay away from the hangar, but is it known if texts prior to May 7th on SS's original phone were able to be captured, or only his texts as seen on the receiver's phone, as was done with DM's phone to capture their conversations?

It is just too much of a coincidence that SS decided on May 7th to get a new phone, IMO. Also, did he delete the security app from his old phone or was LE able to access the old data pre-May 7th from SS's new phone? I wonder because of his testimony yesterday:

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
Schlatman says he had the ability to control the camera inside the MIllardAir hangar. "You had the ability to do that on May 6, and May 7," Sachak says. "Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?" Schlatman says no.

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
"During those 72 hours, you could have looked inside the hangar by just looking at your phone," Sachak says.

Mar 31 2016 3:53 PM
The camera was pointed at some "expensive equipment" on May 6, Sachak says, to which Schlatman agrees.

NS may just have been confirming that DM never asked him to delete the app and the app is still accessible? - OR - Was the app deleted and NS just wants to make sure to get SS to say that it's because he changed phones and DM didn't ask him to delete it?

NS is also putting all the responsibility onto SS for the control of the security cameras it seems and SS seems to agree.

Also NS first mentions both dates May 6th and 7th, and then follows up only with the May 6th date :"Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?"

Was the May 7th dated purposefully omitted by NS? It just also happens to be the same date that SS got rid of his old phone and got a new one. This all sounds so convoluted. I'm confused I guess, and it's showing. lol

I know I'm very skeptical, but I just don't believe in such convenient coincidences.:notgood: PS Tweets above posted by Velma yesterday.

All MOO.

 

[Arnie M]

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In spite of sophisticated security features 74,000 vehicles were stolen in Canada in 2014

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/04/01/cars-are-getting-smarter-but-so-are-thieves-investigation