Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Claroon]

Source http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...found-on-key-ring-in-suv-millard-was-driving/

You know how some killers keep something that belonged to their victim? I wonder if his extensive key collection includes more? And, yes, I know he had multiple properties and vehicles requiring keys. Just find it creepy he put TB's key on there so quickly.

 

[Claroon]

IMO SS knew about the truck theft and was helping cover it up. Given how closely involved he was with DM and his vehicles, he would have certainly known about DM's desire to get a diesel truck. It was a huge deal for them, and the minute SS saw the truck in the hangar he would have been all over it checking it out. Many questions would have instantly popped into his head:

• Why are there no front seats?
• Why is it sitting on a tarp?
• Why is the carpet cut out and sitting underneath the truck?
• Wait, are those... blood stains on the carpet?
• Oh god... those are definitely blood stains on the dashboard...

He said DM told him he bought the truck in Kitchener and drove it to the hangar sitting on a pail. Hm, that's a perfectly legit answer, I guess I won't ask any more questions. When the Crown asked him about the windshield removal kit, he claimed he tried to use it on the red Dodge Ram, not the black one sitting in the hangar. Sure, SS, sounds like you're just covering your own arse. He took a fit on AJ and told him to keep his mouth shut. And despite his testimony, IMO SS did alert DM about AJ's call to Crimestoppers. I don't see a better explanation as to why DM suddenly moved the truck to his mom's house and tried to hide a bunch of other evidence on May 9.

IMO SS took a "don't ask, don't tell" position on TB's murder too, and likely knew or had a strong suspicion that the incinerator was used. AJ probably agrees and that's why they haven't talked in 3 years.

Yes, all of those details, plus key on his chain are DAMNING evidence. And SS imo is covering his butt.

DM didn't just purchase a vehicle from Kitchener, he purchased one with no front seats, smashed window... and for SS to imply it might be "warm" I'm sorry but even if someone else had stolen it from TB and sold it to DM they wouldn't have time to take out the seats, etc. AND list it for sale, AND sell it properly in the timeframe.

 

[flipflop]

5 bucks that TD postponed his cross of SS 'til Monday because he wanted the weekend to gather the amazing questions and info from the super sleuths on this site.
I bow in awe....simply amazing how you catch the obvious that goes right over my head. "security lights that turn to the wall if it's cold.
Seriously?
JMHO

that and the fact that it was 4pm (the usual end of the day) and TD knew he would have a days worth, or 2 of questioning for SS.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm not a video surveillance camera guy, but the testimony of the camera in question, essentially doing a 180° turn from a panoramic view, then to face the wall?.........seems a bit fishy

Seems fishy for a few reasons IMO. If the reason the camera faced the wall was important, it could be verified. Security systems are known to do some wacky stuff, including parking in an unwanted position. This could be due to DVR-Camera matching, camera malfunction, etc.

Again, if it was important to showing premeditation, the system operation could have been verified. MOO

I would want to see the settings on the DVR software. If there was a mechanical problem with the camera, the programmed preset points should be retained by the system. If someone programmed the camera to face the wall, the programmed preset points would be gone and replaced by the one preset point that = face the wall.

I don't agree that these cameras are known to park themselves in an unwanted position. I scanned a lot of forums and people just didn't report that kind of problem with them. Besides, the cameras are enclosed in a weatherproof dome and it was a low of 9C the night the camera "malfunctioned".

 

[Claroon]

I found this view of the hanger from the airfield side, not sure when it was taken but "CHARTRIGHT" has there logo up currently.

zoom in and you can see a loader, forklift, etc..
View attachment 91374

Napper505

Chartright purchased it April 2015. http://www.chartright.com/Contact-Us/Kitchener-Waterloo

That's how you do business!

 

[Inspector_North]

IMO SS knew about the truck theft and was helping cover it up. Given how closely involved he was with DM and his vehicles, he would have certainly known about DM's desire to get a diesel truck. It was a huge deal for them, and the minute SS saw the truck in the hangar he would have been all over it checking it out. Many questions would have instantly popped into his head:

• Why are there no front seats?
• Why is it sitting on a tarp?
• Why is the carpet cut out and sitting underneath the truck?
• Wait, are those... blood stains on the carpet?
• Oh god... those are definitely blood stains on the dashboard...

He said DM told him he bought the truck in Kitchener and drove it to the hangar sitting on a pail. Hm, that's a perfectly legit answer, I guess I won't ask any more questions. When the Crown asked him about the windshield removal kit, he claimed he tried to use it on the red Dodge Ram, not the black one sitting in the hangar. Sure, SS, sounds like you're just covering your own arse. He took a fit on AJ and told him to keep his mouth shut. And despite his testimony, IMO SS did alert DM about AJ's call to Crimestoppers. I don't see a better explanation as to why DM suddenly moved the truck to his mom's house and tried to hide a bunch of other evidence on May 9.

IMO SS took a "don't ask, don't tell" position on TB's murder too, and likely knew or had a strong suspicion that the incinerator was used. AJ probably agrees and that's why they haven't talked in 3 years.

Absolutely! There is not a mechanic that is not attracted to check out his next job. Checking the engine, power-train and overall condition would be done before investing in tearing down a road approved (red) truck for parts.

TD needs to take the jury back to those first few hours SS saw the truck on the tarp.

questions for SS

Did SS give the truck a one over, and did he notice anything related to the blood letting?
Did he notice anything with the carpet on the tarp?
Did he not think it strange to remove the windshield from the red truck first? After all the red truck was still on the road.
Was there any discussion why it was sitting on a tarp? According to witnesses, this was unusual.
Did the truck show signs of being recently washed? ex. still dripping.

 

[Claroon]

questions for SS

Did SS give the truck a one over, and did he notice anything related to the blood letting?
Did he notice anything with the carpet on the tarp?
Did he not think it strange to remove the windshield from the black truck first? After all the red truck was still on the road.
Was there any discussion why it was sitting on a tarp? According to witnesses, this was unusual.
Did the truck show signs of being recently washed? ex. still dripping.

Absolutely. And how about,
Did you know in advance a purchase was being made?
How were purchases handled in the past?
Were you notified you'd be needed to convert a rush job?
Were vehicles turned over as quickly in the past? i.e. why such a rush?
Was it unusual the hangar would be closed May 7? Had you ever had a text like that before?
What reason was given for the seats being missing? or fabric burned off? Did you notice a burning odor on the seat remnants (assuming he saw the frames).
Were there ever any orange tarps used?
The next time you saw DM did he have his murse? How did he look?
Was it usual for staff to store extra clothes and towels for a shower at the hangar?

 

[flipflop]

Absolutely. And how about,
Did you know in advance a purchase was being made?
How were purchases handled in the past?
Were you notified you'd be needed to convert a rush job?
Were vehicles turned over as quickly in the past? i.e. why such a rush?
Was it unusual the hangar would be closed May 7? Had you ever had a text like that before?
What reason was given for the seats being missing? or fabric burned off? Did you notice a burning odor on the seat remnants (assuming he saw the frames).
Were there ever any orange tarps used?
The next time you saw DM did he have his murse? How did he look?
Was it usual for staff to store extra clothes and towels for a shower at the hangar?

SS told us himself that he purchased the Eliminator at DM's request. He ordered the windshield removal kit, he ordered lots of parts etc monthly, he seemed to be quite involved in the purchasing department. Why does he not have info, on the so called purchase of the black truck? Hiding the fact that you know of the theft SS!!!! I think he is starting to sink, waaaaayy to many can see through his testimony IMO.

 

[Claroon]

Did they do a thorough investigation of the grassy area in front of Bobcat for blood or bullets? Were there reports they did? I suspect if TB had a chance to try to run after being shot--as people don't necessarily die right after a shot depending on where the wound is--or if the body was moved, there might have been something there. Kind of late now to check I'd think.

 

[deugirtni]

The defense's job is to provide arguments and evidence at to why the accused couldn't have committed the crime. They are trying to say he has lots of money therefore no need to steal the truck. This is in hopes of creating a reasonable doubt. It's a pretty thin argument. But I guess they are just trying to do the best they can with what they have and they don't have much.

Problem is... he had already told his right-hand-man that he had BOUGHT the truck. To 'buy' a blood soaked truck (which it had to have been, considering the evidence), perhaps including a body in it, I'd imagine it would go for next to nothing, possibly even free. It was a huge liability. So with alllllllll of his money, and no need to *steal* a truck, he also had no need to buy a crime-scene truck for dirt cheap, perhaps with a body inside too. He could have afforded to buy 'the best', which was more to his style and tastes, according to his lawyer. Since he was caught red-handed with the truck, he has to choose, did he steal it with TB inside and kill him, or did he buy a blood drenched truck for peanuts which had obviously been used in a serious blood letting event and then proceed to hide all of the evidence of someone else's crime? It's way late to be talking about what he could have afforded. moo

 

[matou]

SS told us himself that he purchased the Eliminator at DM's request. He ordered the windshield removal kit, he ordered lots of parts etc monthly, he seemed to be quite involved in the purchasing department. Why does he not have info, on the so called purchase of the black truck? Hiding the fact that you know of the theft SS!!!! I think he is starting to sink, waaaaayy to many can see through his testimony IMO.

Excellent point. SS was purchasing many items and vehicles. A truck was purchased yet no receipt? No doubt it would have been registered under millardair like the trailer was that was stolen with the motorcycle in it. Dungey will find the holes in his testimony, I'm sure.

 

[Inspector_North]

Excellent point. SS was purchasing many items and vehicles. A truck was purchased yet no receipt? No doubt it would have been registered under millardair like the trailer was that was stolen with the motorcycle in it. Dungey will find the holes in his testimony, I'm sure.

Unless this exercise with finance is to show what SS knew, and if he is lying, I think it has been proven beyond a doubt that DM was in possession of the stolen truck on the morning of the 8th, and that he was present during the theft on the 6th, and the hanger activity with the truck in the early morning of the 7th.

Not sure we have to know that the shoplifter had $500 dollars in his pocket when he is caught red handed with the $200 stolen merchandise. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

Some general thoughts for consideration ......and a generous dash of dark humour :naughty:

My wish list and more---
I wish-
*Witnesses ....a set of fines and/or jail time for witnesses who lie on the stand.....or water boarding. Fines could be based on multiples of the $132 per day cost of being jailed at taxpayers expense eg. 12 months in jail = 12 x 132=1452 dollars or something similar plus HST of course.

*Jails......should be shipped off shore and set up in China, Norh Korea, Somalia, etc....reducing current annual costs of housing serious offenders to mere pennies on the dollar as opposed to 152,000 dollars/year. Motto built by Canadians for Canadians.....on second thought, maybe not so serious offenders as well....(bet that would be a deterrent ).


the more---
*No death penalty ......consider that it has cost approx. 125,000 dollars annually to house P. Bernardo in a modest 4x8 cell and the total cost of the trial and incarceration over 10+ years has been estimated to be approx 11 million dollars....Bernardo has been assessed as a 'malignant narcissistic'. He will never be released. There is faint hope of rehabilitation even if he was interested...it is my opinion that this topic will of necessity be re-visited in a future time....where mercy, kindness and compassion will be extended unto the offenders in the same measure that they extended it to their victims.

*Rich guys are good guys.....Some defense lawyers would have us think that DM is a good guy just look at all 0's in his bank account....look at the toys etc etc.
I on the other hand say all those imaginary 0's stand for something quite different---- 0 honesty.....0 integrity.....
0 responsibility......0 maturity......0 common sense......0 morality......0 dignity......0 respect......0 compassion.......
0 mercy..... Absolutely bankrupt IMO.

and last but not least....

*Friendship vs Bromance.....I happen to agree with Shane .....he did not have a friendship with Dell. In this day and age what they had ? have ? is what is called a full out BROMANCE . I repeat BROMANCE ....a word describing a complicated love shared by 2 straight guys as defined by Urban Dictionary. What else do you call it when 2 guys work side by side for 7+ years together......share three weeks on a trip to Mexico together.....get identical tatooes together......design incinerators together......modifying trailers and motorcycles together..... share mechanic skills together.....share their passion for motors and cars together......visit the farm together......want to build their dream homes on the same plot of land together.....hell they even share early morning and late evening calls and teapots together...(damn that auto-correct--texts). Now tell me that that was no friendship !! well, I will concede--it was no ordinary friendship :slap:

 

[Sillybilly]

These are the adjusted video times:

8:46 pm Yukon driving south on Trinity Rd at Super Sucker.
9:05 pm Black pickup driving north on Trinity Rd at Super Sucker.
9:15 pm Black pickup driving south on Trinity Rd at Super Sucker.
9:20 pm Black pickup and Yukon driving north on Trinity Rd at Super Sucker.

The two events in the middle were omitted from the video expert's report, but they were revealed through Pillay's cross-examination.

Am I misremembering? I thought it was said somewhere that TB had been cleaning the truck for viewing, but can't recall when that might have been. Just thinking that he may have washed it prior to the viewing and took it up and down Trinity for a quick spin to dry it off.

 

[billandrew]

This whole trial is playing out like another one of DM's projects: an exciting adventure centered around him, lots of money spent, all of his friends invited, and a glorious failure at the end. Thankfully his failure this time (25 years to life in prison) will be justice for the Bosma family and we can all carry on celebrating the memory of TB.

 

[billandrew]

Am I misremembering? I thought it was said somewhere that TB had been cleaning the truck for viewing, but can't recall when that might have been. Just thinking that he may have washed it prior to the viewing and took it up and down Trinity for a quick spin to dry it off.

I recall hearing about the cleaning, but I don't recall any video clips prior to 8:46pm. During Pillay's cross-examination they used the original time stamp because he did not trust the credibility of the 3 hour adjustment. Therefore, the two middle events were presented as 6:05pm and 6:15pm.

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

*Friendship vs Bromance.....I happen to agree with Shane .....he did not have a friendship with Dell. In this day and age what they had ? have ? is what is called a full out BROMANCE . I repeat BROMANCE ....a word describing a complicated love shared by 2 straight guys as defined by Urban Dictionary. What else do you call it when 2 guys work side by side for 7+ years together......share three weeks on a trip to Mexico together.....get identical tatooes together......design incinerators together......modifying trailers and motorcycles together..... share mechanic skills together.....share their passion for motors and cars together......visit the farm together......want to build their dream homes on the same plot of land together.....hell they even share early morning and late evening calls and teapots together...(damn that auto-correct--texts). Now tell me that that was no friendship !! well, I will concede--it was no ordinary friendship :slap:

NS is trying so make the hangar time sound like dry work and not hang-out time. DM and SS didn't need to see each other outside of "work" because they already spent so much time together. NS seems to try to say that unless SS was after DM like a puppy, they weren't "friends".

DM meant to live happily ever after in Ayr with a fiancee, but now he's looking at hooking up with SS for 99 years.<modsnip>

 

[Alethea Dice]

I find the above exchange between NS and SS curious:

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
Schlatman says he had the ability to control the camera inside the MIllardAir hangar. "You had the ability to do that on May 6, and May 7," Sachak says. "Did Dell tell you, listen I want you to delete that app on May 6?" Schlatman says no.

^^ NS makes the statement I bolded but there is no answer by SS to THAT statement, only to the question that followed.

Mar 31 2016 3:52 PM
"During those 72 hours, you could have looked inside the hangar by just looking at your phone," Sachak says.

^^ again, a statement by NS, but no response from SS.

Mar 31 2016 3:53 PM
The camera was pointed at some "expensive equipment" on May 6, Sachak says, to which Schlatman agrees.

^^ I thought there was testimony that the camera was pointed toward the wall. Was that a different camera?

NS makes statements that do not require an answer, but leaves an impression that SS is agreeing with every statement NS makes.

But he did respond, at least once. And the 72 hours referred to is May 6, 7 & 8. So SS confirmed that he was not asked to delete the app on May 6th or to not look in the hangar on May 7th or 8th, and he had the ability to look inside the hangar via his phone on all 3 days.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes Mar 31
Sachak asks if Millard told him on May 6 to delete the app, or to not look in the hangar on May 7, 8...
He did not.

molly hayes &#8207;@mollyhayes Mar 31
NS: So during those 72 hours you could've looked inside the hangar by just looking in your phone. SS: Yes.

 

[Stratocaster]

Curious about the Yukon leaving the hangar in the 12:45-1:15ish time frame in the early hours of May 7th. Was it a solo trip, did both go? Psychologically speaking IMO, if there were no illicit drug use during this time frame, they would most certainly be, higher than a kite on adrenaline from the events that had just transpired JMO. Seems that, for what ever reason, someone needed to go somewhere. In this roughly half hour time frame, is there enough time lets say, to drive to the farm and return? In the 10-15km radius of the hanger I know there is 24hr gas stations and fast food. I believe the Yukon left before the video shows the flame ignition silhouette on the distant surveillance video.

 

[SnooperDuper]

But he did respond, at least once. And the 72 hours referred to is May 6, 7 & 8. So SS confirmed that he was not asked to delete the app on May 6th or to not look in the hangar on May 7th or 8th, and he had the ability to look inside the hangar via his phone on all 3 days.

I question how familiar SS was with the app and how often he referenced it. It may have been set up for him once when CD set up the system and then never accessed. Then the D drags that up because SS "could" have theoretically spied on DM...

ETA: the DVR has setting that allow you to send an email out when an event is triggered, and that might trigger one to check the app frequently. But without the email alerts configured, why would you randomly check in on the app? Normally, there's always hours and hours of nothing going on.