Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #9

[musicaljoke]

With all respect, I think everyone here wants justice for TB. It seems like the Crown has an armload of evidence and is presenting an effective case. As to the matter of the law and whether a situation can be determined easily as to being a murder with robbery, or a murder with forcible confinement/abduction, it seems that not only lawyers, but even judges may disagree. So to me, we can think whatever we want, but I don't think it is such a simple determination that can be made by us, the general public. I think the end result will fare much better if planning and deliberation can be proven so that the confinement road doesn't need to be travelled. jmo

I'm not sure that it's as complicated as you suggest.

"The first-degree murder charge is based on the forcible confinement allegations", [Hamilton Police Det. Sgt. Matt] Kavanagh said. "The charge, often used in planned and premeditated murders, is also used when someone is killed while they are being forcibly confined.

“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge."

http://www.macleans.ca/news/first-d...aid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/

 

[andreww]

It's a lot more complicated than that because there is two people involved. Obviously Millard planed the theft, that much we know for sure. What we don't know is what his complete intentions were and how much of that was conveyed to Smich? The prosecution hasn't even proved beyond reasonable doubt that Smich was even there. Was that Smich in the hangar video? We only see his back. And we know that Smich's attorneys successfully argued that according to the statement of fact that Millard was at the Bosma's but it couldn't be proved Smich was. We have a witness saying Smich said he wasn't even there. And we have Millard, already in custody, desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to Smich's possession.

If the prosecution wants to send both these guys away, they still have a lot of work to do.


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[RandomName479]

It's a lot more complicated than that because there is two people involved. Obviously Millard planed the theft, that much we know for sure. What we don't know is what his complete intentions were and how much of that was conveyed to Smich? The prosecution hasn't even proved beyond reasonable doubt that Smich was even there. Was that Smich in the hangar video? We only see his back. And we know that Smich's attorneys successfully argued that according to the statement of fact that Millard was at the Bosma's but it couldn't be proved Smich was. We have a witness saying Smich said he wasn't even there. And we have Millard, already in custody, desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to Smich's possession.

If the prosecution wants to send both these guys away, they still have a lot of work to do.


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the agreed statement of fact was submitted by MS's lawyer and agreed that it was MS on the IT test drive.....DM has not submitted an agreed of facts.....think you're getting this confused?

 

[Inspector_North]

While the crown may have not proven premeditated murder at this point, the crown still has key witnesses and evidence yet to be presented. I would say they are much closer at proving their predicted trial outcome.

DM's prediction. (at this point, not even close)

“Once the dust settles, once trial is over, and all information is released, people will again smile and say good things about me,” he wrote. “I really do believe this. I just have to endure this to get there.”

 

[andreww]

the agreed statement of fact was submitted by MS's lawyer and agreed that it was MS on the IT test drive.....DM has not submitted an agreed of facts.....think you're getting this confused?

Possibly I am, but I don't think Smich has admitted to being at Bosmas? Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[RandomName479]

Possibly I am, but I don't think Smich has admitted to being at Bosmas? Correct me if I'm wrong?

Neither of them have admitted to being at the Bosmas.......technically neither of them have been identified as the two who took the test drive.......but from cell phone evidence they both have been put in the area. MOO. We know DM ended up with the truck. I just dont think it's accurate to say we have evidence DM was on the test drive, but we have no evidence MS was. I think they were both there. But that's MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

Possibly I am, but I don't think Smich has admitted to being at Bosmas? Correct me if I'm wrong?

He has admitted to being on the IT test drive. What are the odds he wasn't on the Bosma?

 

[ellie b]

DM.... "For heaven’s sake, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!? This silence is very frustrating."

No, I can't figure it out at all, anyone else figured out why DM is innocent ? On that note, if it was so obvious, why did he not explain it to the police ?:thinking:

 

[Inspector_North]

With the possibility of Andrew taking the stand this afternoon, can someone refresh me as to why LE requested a production order on Theresa's phone?

"Hamilton police put in production orders for six phone numbers in this case, court heard: one belonging to Dellen Millard and one belonging to his girlfriend, Christina Noudga; two belonging to Smich's girlfriend Marlena Meneses (one of them, a prepaid account); one of them belonging to Millardair employee Shane Schlatman; and one belonging to Theresa Michalski. Andrew Michalski was Millard's roommate at the time."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6270089-bosma-trial-neighbour-led-police-to-stolen-stripped-truck/

 

[deugirtni]

With the possibility of Andrew taking the stand this afternoon, can someone refresh me as to why LE requested a production order on Theresa's phone?

"Hamilton police put in production orders for six phone numbers in this case, court heard: one belonging to Dellen Millard and one belonging to his girlfriend, Christina Noudga; two belonging to Smich's girlfriend Marlena Meneses (one of them, a prepaid account); one of them belonging to Millardair employee Shane Schlatman; and one belonging to Theresa Michalski. Andrew Michalski was Millard's roommate at the time."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6270089-bosma-trial-neighbour-led-police-to-stolen-stripped-truck/

Seeing as how AM's phone doesn't seem to be one of the numbers for which there was a production order, I'm presuming that AM's phone must have been in Theresa's name? Just my guess.

 

[dar107]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 18m18 minutes ago Hamilton, Ontario

Back at the #timbosma trial today for legal arguments. The jury is scheduled to be in for 1:30 pm today. #hamont #bosma #sc

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2h2 hours ago

Legal arguments this morning at the Tim #Bosma murder trial, then Dellen Millard's roomie Andrew Michalaki on the stand in afternoon.

 

[Inspector_North]

Seeing as how AM's phone doesn't seem to be one of the numbers for which there was a production order, I'm presuming that AM's phone must have been in Theresa's name? Just my guess.

Thanks. I find that very interesting, and wonder what is the criteria for getting a production order on a phone. I would have assumed that Brendan Daly's phone would have been of interest considering MS used it after he ditched using his. From Brendan's testimony, MS would wipe his activity after using it. If it was a text message, most carriers have a SMS retention policy.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Kinda spooked by the video in the early morning hours of May 7th when the Yukon pulls into the apt building to pick up MM. JMO it seems that when they stop the Yukon MS needs to quickly talk to MM without being within earshot of DM (or is he giving he something she puts in her bag)..... And I've always wondered why not any charge of 'causing an indignity to a human body' were ever laid.

Funny you mention that because I had the same thought. It does look like he's saying something to her but I think it's more his body language that gave me the impression he was saying something he didn't want DM to hear. I don't think anyone else mentioned it so I just let it go.

 

[loveisthemovement]

I have lost the link to the Daly Solutions (sp?) Twitter list - does anyone else have it?

 

[Errrr]

Asking if the skid steer (wheel loader) at the farm would be functional.
(Time?)

Was the skid steer used to load the eliminator possibly? Is that how they managed to keep their clothes relatively clean?

 

[Errrr]

It's a lot more complicated than that because there is two people involved. Obviously Millard planed the theft, that much we know for sure. What we don't know is what his complete intentions were and how much of that was conveyed to Smich? The prosecution hasn't even proved beyond reasonable doubt that Smich was even there. Was that Smich in the hangar video? We only see his back. And we know that Smich's attorneys successfully argued that according to the statement of fact that Millard was at the Bosma's but it couldn't be proved Smich was. We have a witness saying Smich said he wasn't even there. And we have Millard, already in custody, desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to Smich's possession.

If the prosecution wants to send both these guys away, they still have a lot of work to do.


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What evidence is there that DM was desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to MS possession?

 

[Errrr]

Funny you mention that because I had the same thought. It does look like he's saying something to her but I think it's more his body language that gave me the impression he was saying something he didn't want DM to hear. I don't think anyone else mentioned it so I just let it go.

I always wondered if he gave her back the burner phone? Isn't she the one who got it for them?

 

[Inspector_North]

What evidence is there that DM was desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to MS possession?

Some see getting the toolbox and pack-sack to MS (indirectly) as trying to get incriminating evidence to MS. Others see it as getting evidence away from LE.

Guess it all depends on perspective of evidence presented to date.

MOO

 

[andreww]

What evidence is there that DM was desperately trying to get incriminating evidence in to MS possession?

SS and LH seemed pretty intent on getting the toolbox and backpack to Smich didn't they? Why not just bury that stuff?

 

[Inspector_North]

SS and LH seemed pretty intent on getting the toolbox and backpack to Smich didn't they? Why not just bury that stuff?

One thing that has reoccurred over and over is the reluctance to let go of material things. Why didn't they just destroy the truck when they knew AJ called CS, instead of parking it at his mom's?

It seems to me that DM was distributing evidence to friends and family where he thought it safe from LE. Why MS wanted to sell the gun instead of burying it at first is still a bit of a mystery. But MS isn't the brightest bulb in the room.

DM evidence distribution
Red truck hidden at SS friend's
DVR given to NG
Toolbox and Weed to MH and AM. They chose to give it to MS, but may have been instructions from DM after being arrested.
Bosma truck to his mom's

DM was the master planner. The Eliminator was a little harder to store with someone, hence the storing in a stand of trees.