Boulder police chief exonerates Fleet and Priscilla White in death of JonBenet Ramsey

[questfortrue]

It wasn't even on her body, it was on her clothing.

Your theory is far fetched. They wore gloves the WHOLE time except to touch just this one tiny minuscule portion of JBR's clothing? Hmm.

ITA. Here is another view of staging and TDNA

In no way do I mean the following imaginary tale to be disrespectful towards anyone holding differing views of TDNA or staging. (I do respect the IDI viewpoint, just doesn’t work for me.) This is all simply for the purpose of illustrating why TDNA may not be a smoking gun for any RDIs. No disrespect to New Jersey either. Here’s the fantasy crime:

A New Jersey man, coming back late from visiting his mistress, hits and kills a bicyclist He panics and makes a decision to abandon his car, a little Camry, across the tracks. He leaves his wallet on the floor of the driver side, with a few bucks and 1 credit card. He leaves a nifty little camera on the passenger side seat, leaves the car open and a window partway down and walks home 4 miles, arriving at about midnight.

In the meantime a teenager out visiting a friend spots the car, sees the camera and opens up the car. He sees the wallet on the floor of the car, removes the credit card, but tosses that in a garbage can (too risky to use).

While that theft is occuring the man gets home, climbs in bed and in the next early morning hours calls and reports his car stolen. He then calls the credit card company and cancels that card.

The police find the car, dust it for fingerprints, find some TDNA on the driver seat and front passenger seat, fingerprints on the passenger side door, belonging to no one identified in any database. And, TDNA in the backseat too. Five or six samples of it.

One little thing, there had been a fast moving storm and many leaves were blown onto the sidewalks and onto the driveway, sometime between 1:00 and 2:00am. The police see no evidence a car was ever parked there. Yet, there is all kinds of TDNA in that car. They also run a credit card check and find out that the man had only cancelled one credit card. They suspect, in spite of the TDNA, that the man may be involved in a hit and run. With no eye-witnesses to this crime, the police only have the man and his wife’s interview to corroborate his whereabouts. Rotten luck, the police are never able to interview the couple separately because the wife is on major anti-depressants dealing with the issue of the mistress.

However, this is New Jersey, very smart police force. They make a decision not to pursue the guy, but to leave it as a cold case. They do not exonerate him on the basis of the TDNA.

Far-fetched example? Depends on one’s perspective.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

ITA. Here is another view of staging and TDNA

In no way do I mean the following imaginary tale to be disrespectful towards anyone holding differing views of TDNA or staging. (I do respect the IDI viewpoint, just doesn’t work for me.) This is all simply for the purpose of illustrating why TDNA may not be a smoking gun for any RDIs. No disrespect to New Jersey either. Here’s the fantasy crime:

A New Jersey man, coming back late from visiting his mistress, hits and kills a bicyclist He panics and makes a decision to abandon his car, a little Camry, across the tracks. He leaves his wallet on the floor of the driver side, with a few bucks and 1 credit card. He leaves a nifty little camera on the passenger side seat, leaves the car open and a window partway down and walks home 4 miles, arriving at about midnight.

In the meantime a teenager out visiting a friend spots the car, sees the camera and opens up the car. He sees the wallet on the floor of the car, removes the credit card, but tosses that in a garbage can (too risky to use).

While that theft is occuring the man gets home, climbs in bed and in the next early morning hours calls and reports his car stolen. He then calls the credit card company and cancels that card.

The police find the car, dust it for fingerprints, find some TDNA on the driver seat and front passenger seat, fingerprints on the passenger side door, belonging to no one identified in any database. And, TDNA in the backseat too. Five or six samples of it.

One little thing, there had been a fast moving storm and many leaves were blown onto the sidewalks and onto the driveway, sometime between 1:00 and 2:00am. The police see no evidence a car was ever parked there. Yet, there is all kinds of TDNA in that car. They also run a credit card check and find out that the man had only cancelled one credit card. They suspect, in spite of the TDNA, that the man may be involved in a hit and run. With no eye-witnesses to this crime, the police only have the man and his wife’s interview to corroborate his whereabouts. Rotten luck, the police are never able to interview the couple separately because the wife is on major anti-depressants dealing with the issue of the mistress.

However, this is New Jersey, very smart police force. They make a decision not to pursue the guy, but to leave it as a cold case. They do not exonerate him on the basis of the TDNA.

Far-fetched example? Depends on one’s perspective.

The difference we have more than Only TDNA. And they match. Same source.

That is the ballgame for me. If that same police force found saliva, or fluid that contained DNA that matched the TDNA, You would see pursuit.

JMO.

 

[midwest mama]

RSBM That alone stands out to me.

I'd be curious to know how many DA's in an area the size of Boulder manage to go years and years without trying a single case.

Garnett's team is taking a harder look at some of the cold cases. Some are getting tried. Yet, there are still some, like the JBR case, that so many wish would have seen a trial or would be reactivated by calling a new GJ in light of the disclosure of the prior vote to indict.

FW was publicly exonerated for the third time by Beckner just before his retirement. I did not hear of any other public exonerations given by Beckner of any other formerly exonerated persons of interest in any of the other cold cases that Boulder still has open and ongoing. This seems so unusal to me.

I can only hope that something is brewing in the DA's office with regard to this case and that Beckner thought it would be a good time for him to seek the lack of involvement that retirement could offer him, rather than get snarled up in something that could delay or affect his retirement in a harmful way. All JMO and humble speculation!

 

[Mama2JML]

ITA. Here is another view of staging and TDNA

In no way do I mean the following imaginary tale to be disrespectful towards anyone holding differing views of TDNA or staging. (I do respect the IDI viewpoint, just doesn’t work for me.) This is all simply for the purpose of illustrating why TDNA may not be a smoking gun for any RDIs. No disrespect to New Jersey either. Here’s the fantasy crime:

A New Jersey man, coming back late from visiting his mistress, hits and kills a bicyclist He panics and makes a decision to abandon his car, a little Camry, across the tracks. He leaves his wallet on the floor of the driver side, with a few bucks and 1 credit card. He leaves a nifty little camera on the passenger side seat, leaves the car open and a window partway down and walks home 4 miles, arriving at about midnight.

In the meantime a teenager out visiting a friend spots the car, sees the camera and opens up the car. He sees the wallet on the floor of the car, removes the credit card, but tosses that in a garbage can (too risky to use).

While that theft is occuring the man gets home, climbs in bed and in the next early morning hours calls and reports his car stolen. He then calls the credit card company and cancels that card.

The police find the car, dust it for fingerprints, find some TDNA on the driver seat and front passenger seat, fingerprints on the passenger side door, belonging to no one identified in any database. And, TDNA in the backseat too. Five or six samples of it.

One little thing, there had been a fast moving storm and many leaves were blown onto the sidewalks and onto the driveway, sometime between 1:00 and 2:00am. The police see no evidence a car was ever parked there. Yet, there is all kinds of TDNA in that car. They also run a credit card check and find out that the man had only cancelled one credit card. They suspect, in spite of the TDNA, that the man may be involved in a hit and run. With no eye-witnesses to this crime, the police only have the man and his wife’s interview to corroborate his whereabouts. Rotten luck, the police are never able to interview the couple separately because the wife is on major anti-depressants dealing with the issue of the mistress.

However, this is New Jersey, very smart police force. They make a decision not to pursue the guy, but to leave it as a cold case. They do not exonerate him on the basis of the TDNA.

Far-fetched example? Depends on one’s perspective.

So, the teenager's DNA was found in the car, but the cheater, killer, driver's DNA was not?...

Ramsey DNA wasn't found in JB's panties, nor on her long john's. ...& it wasn't on the garrote, the wrist ligatures, nor under her fingernails.

The unsourced, male DNA profile belongs to someone that was in direct contact with the victim's underpants & both sides of her long johns. It isn't a family member's DNA, and it doesn't belong to anyone who might have innocently handled the garments before or after the murder.

Even IF RDI, (which is a stretch, b/c NO Ramsey DNA was obtained from the murder weapon, the wrist ligatures, the victims fingernails, nor any tested item the victim was wearing), this unsourced DNA belongs to someone, and the likelihood that this unidentified male is innocent is near impossible.

 

[Mama2JML]

Garnett's team is taking a harder look at some of the cold cases. Some are getting tried. Yet, there are still some, like the JBR case, that so many wish would have seen a trial or would be reactivated by calling a new GJ in light of the disclosure of the prior vote to indict.

FW was publicly exonerated for the third time by Beckner just before his retirement. I did not hear of any other public exonerations given by Beckner of any other formerly exonerated persons of interest in any of the other cold cases that Boulder still has open and ongoing. This seems so unusal to me.

I can only hope that something is brewing in the DA's office with regard to this case and that Beckner thought it would be a good time for him to seek the lack of involvement that retirement could offer him, rather than get snarled up in something that could delay or affect his retirement in a harmful way. All JMO and humble speculation!

BBM

I haven't heard of any other POIs, witnesses, suspects, etc., aside from the Whites, requesting a public statement of exoneration. The Whites made the same request of DA Garnett, but he refused to issue the statement. Unusual indeed.

 

[Mama2JML]

It wasn't even on her body, it was on her clothing.

Your theory is far fetched. They wore gloves the WHOLE time except to touch just this one tiny minuscule portion of JBR's clothing? Hmm.

Does genetic material collected from the victim's fingernails count as "on the body"?

 

[midwest mama]

So, the teenager's DNA was found in the car, but the cheater, killer, driver's DNA was not?...

Ramsey DNA wasn't found in JB's panties, nor on her long john's. ...& it wasn't on the garrote, the wrist ligatures, nor under her fingernails.

The unsourced, male DNA profile belongs to someone that was in direct contact with the victim's underpants & both sides of her long johns. It isn't a family member's DNA, and it doesn't belong to anyone who might have innocently handled the garments before or after the murder.

Even IF RDI, (which is a stretch, b/c NO Ramsey DNA was obtained from the murder weapon, the wrist ligatures, the victims fingernails, nor any tested item the victim was wearing), this unsourced DNA belongs to someone, and the likelihood that this unidentified male is innocent is near impossible.

BBM

It's been a while since I would have read any sources to NO Ramsey DNA being found in/on any of the above items you mentioned. Can you help with sources?

I find it strange that with JR giving deposition he tried to untie the wrist ligatures, there would be none of his DNA on them, touch or otherwise. Ditto on witnesses seeing him holding JB out and away from his body by her mid torso, which was clothed, that there would not be any DNA left on her clothing by him from that action.

 

[midwest mama]

BBM

I haven't heard of any other POIs, witnesses, suspects, etc., aside from the Whites, requesting a public statement of exoneration. The Whites made the same request of DA Garnett, but he refused to issue the statement. Unusual indeed.

BBM

Hmmm, this prompted me to check the Daily Camera article that started this thread. Here's some of the content:

The latest public exoneration of Fleet and Priscilla White came from the Boulder Police Department, and it prompted some head-scratching from one legal analyst.

Denver defense attorney Dan Recht, who has followed the Ramsey saga closely, was surprised to see the Whites being offered another exoneration in the case.

"I know of absolutely no precedent for anyone ever being officially exonerated three times in one case," Recht said. "I'm wondering out loud what the motivation is for the chief of police to issue a third exoneration."

Again, BBM. The related commentary in the article by FW was this:

In an emailed statement to the Daily Camera, Fleet White said, "We greatly appreciate Chief Beckner and the Boulder Police Department making this statement on behalf of our family.

Daily Camera did not report an exoneration was requested, only "offered". Do you have an inside track that can be shared?

 

[Mama2JML]

BBM

It's been a while since I would have read any sources to NO Ramsey DNA being found in/on any of the above items you mentioned. Can you help with sources?

I find it strange that with JR giving deposition he tried to untie the wrist ligatures, there would be none of his DNA on them, touch or otherwise. Ditto on witnesses seeing him holding JB out and away from his body by her mid torso, which was clothed, that there would not be any DNA left on her clothing by him from that action.

There are many sources from which to choose. Kolar's book offers a "recap" of the Ramsey case evidentiary DNA.

 

[Mama2JML]

BBM

Hmmm, this prompted me to check the Daily Camera article that started this thread. Here's some of the content:

The latest public exoneration of Fleet and Priscilla White came from the Boulder Police Department, and it prompted some head-scratching from one legal analyst.

Denver defense attorney Dan Recht, who has followed the Ramsey saga closely, was surprised to see the Whites being offered another exoneration in the case.

"I know of absolutely no precedent for anyone ever being officially exonerated three times in one case," Recht said. "I'm wondering out loud what the motivation is for the chief of police to issue a third exoneration."

Again, BBM. The related commentary in the article by FW was this:

In an emailed statement to the Daily Camera, Fleet White said, "We greatly appreciate Chief Beckner and the Boulder Police Department making this statement on behalf of our family.

Daily Camera did not report an exoneration was requested, only "offered". Do you have an inside track that can be shared?

No inside track, here.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/bou...-denied-official-ramsey-exoneration-statement

 

[Tawny]

How was NO Ramsey DNA on a body that was handled and/or touched by BOTH parents upon discovery of the body?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How was NO Ramsey DNA on a body that was handled and/or touched by BOTH parents upon discovery of the body?

I think that goes to show just how difficult it can be to get DNA on a body and that the DNA left in multiple places has importance.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

That was me being skeptical that there was "no" Ramsey DNA on her.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That was me being skeptical that there was "no" Ramsey DNA on her.

However there wasn't. So what does that say? That it is not easy to transfer DNA. JMO

 

[questfortrue]

BBM

It's been a while since I would have read any sources to NO Ramsey DNA being found in/on any of the above items you mentioned. Can you help with sources?

I find it strange that with JR giving deposition he tried to untie the wrist ligatures, there would be none of his DNA on them, touch or otherwise. Ditto on witnesses seeing him holding JB out and away from his body by her mid torso, which was clothed, that there would not be any DNA left on her clothing by him from that action.

Perhaps he didn't try to untie the wrist ligature, and it was a "misspeak" kinda like the recollection BR was asleep the whole time? imo

 

[questfortrue]

It wasn't even on her body, it was on her clothing.

Your theory is far fetched. They wore gloves the WHOLE time except to touch just this one tiny minuscule portion of JBR's clothing? Hmm.

From Kolar's book, the lab techs believed someone wore brown work gloves.

From Wecht comes the idea that someone else also had latex gloves which left traces of Birefringence material in her vaginal vault.

 

[Tawny]

That's a lot of gloves.

 

[UKGuy]

From Kolar's book, the lab techs believed someone wore brown work gloves.

From Wecht comes the idea that someone else also had latex gloves which left traces of Birefringence material in her vaginal vault.

questfortrue,
Maybe here was more than one hand at work here, pardon the pun, one wore the garden gloves another wore the latex style gloves that come with hair coloring lotions?


.

 

[2 percent]

So, the teenager's DNA was found in the car, but the cheater, killer, driver's DNA was not?...

Ramsey DNA wasn't found in JB's panties, nor on her long john's. ...& it wasn't on the garrote, the wrist ligatures, nor under her fingernails.

The unsourced, male DNA profile belongs to someone that was in direct contact with the victim's underpants & both sides of her long johns. It isn't a family member's DNA, and it doesn't belong to anyone who might have innocently handled the garments before or after the murder.

Even IF RDI, (which is a stretch, b/c NO Ramsey DNA was obtained from the murder weapon, the wrist ligatures, the victims fingernails, nor any tested item the victim was wearing), this unsourced DNA belongs to someone, and the likelihood that this unidentified male is innocent is near impossible.

Not true. Even Dr. Lee concedes the manufacture transfer and it has never been disproven to be the source. No proof of entry by an intruder has ever been satisfactory. What, exactly, is your theory of entry? That's an integral part of the crime and does not depend on DNA.

And no touch DNA was found on the garrotte rope. So the theory is gloves that left no trace whatsoever were used at strategic moments? And not others? Please explain these discrepancies.

 

[Nom de plume]

But there isn't any proof that "the" touch DNA was from anyone else! It could be a mixture of two people. If it's a mixed sample it won't be a "match" to either donor. We KNOW JR had hold of her waist when he carried her upstairs. PR admitted to putting the long johns on her. There you go! A mixture of JR/PR tDNA. Doesn't match either one of them, but gives the IDI theory it's only breath of life. This has been brought up just recently, with links provided by OTG (Thanks OTG!). Why is this still being said it couldn't be both the Rs & not some unknown intruder?