Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother

[Linda7NJ]

Well, these are all questions that make this case difficult to some. I am not certain that all this DNA came from the hands of someone. The panty DNA could be saliva but we just don't know. The perp could have taken his gloves off at somepoint. I don't know.

No matter what any of us believes, the case and the investigation was handled very poorly. There could have been fingerprints or handprints in the kitchen before it was cleaned up. The bottom line is the DNA is real and whether it be from a Ramsey friend, an investigator, or an intruder, they have to find the source to ever get justice for JBR. It belongs to a real person that existed at that time and RDI explanations mean nothing until that is proven at this point.

If the perp took off gloves when dressing her, surely he/she wasn't wearing them when tieing the garrot ON HER NECK.

All it would take for me to switch to a IDI is for the DNA match to the cord. IMO If they tested it, they only found RAMSEY DNA or we would have heard about it.

If they didn't test it, I have to ask WHY THE HECK NOT?

 

[Ames]

It is interesting. But just to be clear--the ransom note in the Baker case was not actually for the missing child, but for another child...

Yeah, the bosses' little girl. That was really, really strange! And SHE was just fine, when police went to check on her. Wonder what THAT was all about. UNLESS...they had planned on killing HER too...to make it look like some sort of sicko was out there doing it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yeah, the bosses' little girl. That was really, really strange! And SHE was just fine, when police went to check on her. Wonder what THAT was all about. UNLESS...they had planned on killing HER too...to make it look like some sort of sicko was out there doing it.

I think it was to throw off LE to make it look like the kidnappers got the WRONG CHILD by mistake. You know, really baffle police, like claiaming a "small forein faction" kidnapped her...eyeroll

 

[tragco]

Well, these are all questions that make this case difficult to some. I am not certain that all this DNA came from the hands of someone. The panty DNA could be saliva but we just don't know. The perp could have taken his gloves off at somepoint. I don't know.

No matter what any of us believes, the case and the investigation was handled very poorly. There could have been fingerprints or handprints in the kitchen before it was cleaned up. The bottom line is the DNA is real and whether it be from a Ramsey friend, an investigator, or an intruder, they have to find the source to ever get justice for JBR. It belongs to a real person that existed at that time and RDI explanations mean nothing until that is proven at this point.

BBM: I do agree with that statement-it is important to find out who the source of the DNA really is. I still hope for justice for JonBenet, and think there may be other ways of proving the case.

You are right. Any defense attorney with a client whose DNA did not match that DNA would be able to raise reasonable doubt. That DNA needs to be matched.

 

[minazoe]

I think it was to throw off LE to make it look like the kidnappers got the WRONG CHILD by mistake. You know, really baffle police, like claiaming a "small forein faction" kidnapped her...eyeroll

either or...thank you I was not aware of this...how BIZZARE! yet here we have a woman writing this ransom note in an attempt point Law enforcement in the wrong direction, to use up valuable time and rescources in pursuit of imaginary kidnappers...

instead of looking for a body ( as they are now) that has probably been hidden somewhere nearby. Sound familiar?

and on that point...

this is the stickiest part of the whole Ramsey case for me.

the note....and then the body. the note was found...by patsy right? they called the cops...right?

then the cops come and start looking for a kidnapper and hadling the scene as a kidnapping....right?

but then...suddenly CHANGE OF PLAN!!!!

john runs downstairs and locates the body...and brings JB upstairs with this sexual assault situation.

right?

so :waitasec: doesn't it seem like if they did this..they didn't create any continuity in the staging process...in other words...

a small foriegn faction kidnapping for ransom does not equate with child molestation and garrotting.

it is right here at this point in the story where police need to make the connection come together. In other words...how did they arrive at this plan?

 

[Linda7NJ]

either or...thank you I was not aware of this...how BIZZARE! yet here we have a woman writing this ransom note in an attempt point Law enforcement in the wrong direction, to use up valuable time and rescources in pursuit of imaginary kidnappers...

instead of looking for a body ( as they are now) that has probably been hidden somewhere nearby. Sound familiar?

and on that point...

this is the stickiest part of the whole Ramsey case for me.

the note....and then the body. the note was found...by patsy right? they called the cops...right?

then the cops come and start looking for a kidnapper and hadling the scene as a kidnapping....right?

but then...suddenly CHANGE OF PLAN!!!!

john runs downstairs and locates the body...and brings JB upstairs with this sexual assault situation.

right?

so :waitasec: doesn't it seem like if they did this..they didn't create any continuity in the staging process...in other words...

a small foreign faction kidnapping for ransom does not equate with child molestation and garrotting.

it is right here at this point in the story where police need to make the connection come together. In other words...how did they arrive at this plan?

It's almost like TWO different people had a hand in the staging, with two completely different scenarios running through their heads. Like Patsy did the head bash & brought her to the basement * wrote the note and John fearing the sexual abuse would be discovered did the garrote and injured her sexually to cover prior abuse and make it look like a pedophile intruder did it.

 

[madeleine]

It's almost like TWO different people had a hand in the staging, with two completely different scenarios running through their heads.

ITA.It's like there are two stagings, but from two different "movies".
Sometimes I wonder whether it was a R + someone else (a friend or something)?

Do you remember the "law&order" episode re this case?Was interesting.If I recall correctly the kid did it (accident),then one parent staged it and the other one thinking something different happened staged it again.Not so impossible at all!

Cause if both the R's were involved in the staging......why make it so absurd?And it's way too much!Yeah maybe someone like PR wouldn't have realized it's too much but JR?Dunno..........

I still think it's poosible that one of them doesn't even know the whole truth....

 

[DeeDee249]

It looks like two people did the staging because IMO, two people DID do the staging. Regardless of who killed her or why, both parents were involved with the staging.

 

[claudicici]

I don't know.One thing that I never believed or that would make sense to me is accidental death followed by staging.
IMO the staging was intentional.IMO whoever did this found a need ,a thrill, a compulsion in the staging.I do not believe it was done to cover up.I believe the RN was written before anything else and let to the murder.I believe a fantasy started in someone's head ,lead to write the RN and then lead to the actual murder of Jon benet.
I believe a lot of it is symbolic a nd tells of the perp's own abuse and mindset.I believe the killing was a way for the killer to deal with very confused unmanageable and uncontrollable issues within his/her own psyche.I believe it was too personal for it to have been an intruder but I do think someone outside of the family could have played a role but the Ramsey's and their family dynamic are definitely at the heart of this.
I keep going back and forth whether the Paugh's and PR's upbringing is the key or sexual abuse by JR? I also keep going back and forth on whether or not BR was too young or if he could have actually done this,he may have witnessed things in the past,he may have had contact with sick minds online,look at cases like the Mary Bell case,very young children are capable of horrific things and this murder definitely has a sort of playfulness to it,"only molested a little bit",the time it took to make the Garrott,the very long ransom note.....the doll...etc....
whoever did this had a very confused and twisted mindset and it's almost as if that person was using JonBenet as a prop to everything that was twisted in their own mind IMO?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't know.One thing that I never believed or that would make sense to me is accidental death followed by staging.
IMO the staging was intentional.IMO whoever did this found a need ,a thrill, a compulsion in the staging.I do not believe it was done to cover up.I believe the RN was written before anything else and let to the murder.I believe a fantasy started in someone's head ,lead to write the RN and then lead to the actual murder of Jonbenet.
I believe a lot of it is symbolic a nd tells of the perp's own abuse and mindset.I believe the killing was a way for the killer to deal with very confused unmanageable and uncontrollable issues within his/her own psyche.I believe it was too personal for it to have been an intruder but I do think someone outside of the family could have played a role but the Ramsey's and their family dynamic are definitely at the heart of this.
I keep going back and forth whether the Paugh's and PR's upbringing is the key or sexual abuse by JR? I also keep going back and forth on whether or not BR was too young or if he could have actually done this,he may have witnessed things in the past,he may have had contact with sick minds online,look at cases like the Mary Bell case,very young children are capable of horrific things and this murder definitely has a sort of playfulness to it,"only molested a little bit",the time it took to make the Garrott,the very long ransom note.....the doll...etc....
whoever did this had a very confused and twisted mindset and it's almost as if that person was using JonBenet as a prop to everything that was twisted in their own mind IMO?

I believe Patsy did USE her daughter as a prop, pageants and even going so far as expecting her daughter to dress like her. They were enmeshed in Pasty's mind, poor little JonBenet seemed to have her own idea on the matter and Pasty wasn't too thrilled by that!

 

[minazoe]

perhaps the child was just missing? and patsy wrote the note because it was x-mas and thought no one would want to come out and find her child and it wouldn't be taken seriously...?

but the whole time JR knew the child was in the basement and ultimatley rolled the dice and made the FAUX discovery in the wine cellar.

i just makes no sense that he suddenly ran downstrairs and brought her up...

INSANE!

 

[Linda7NJ]

perhaps the child was just missing? and patsy wrote the note because it was x-mas and thought no one would want to come out and find her child and it wouldn't be taken seriously...?

but the whole time JR knew the child was in the basement and ultimatley rolled the dice and made the FAUX discovery in the wine cellar.

i just makes no sense that he suddenly ran downstrairs and brought her up...

INSANE!

Nah...Her daughter is missing, and her first thought is to sit down and write a three page novella?

 

[CathyR]

perhaps the child was just missing? and patsy wrote the note because it was x-mas and thought no one would want to come out and find her child and it wouldn't be taken seriously...?

but the whole time JR knew the child was in the basement and ultimatley rolled the dice and made the FAUX discovery in the wine cellar.

i just makes no sense that he suddenly ran downstrairs and brought her up...

INSANE!

He didn't just run down he was asked to search the home for anything out of place. Fleet went with him. They started at the basement. He found JBR. Until her body was found it was being treated as a kidnapping.

 

[minazoe]

right...u are right.

but there was alot of weirdness around that wasn't there? like why weren't police doing the search...why would they allow a potential suspect to search etc?

 

[minazoe]

i know they were looking for the kidnapper's way inside...

no concern for crime scene protocol I guess...

did they tell John and Fleet not to touch anything?

 

[madeleine]

i know they were looking for the kidnapper's way inside...

no concern for crime scene protocol I guess...

did they tell John and Fleet not to touch anything?

LMAO no.Arndt sent Fleet to GUARD the basement.:banghead:

 

[madeleine]

I am surprised she didn't send JR to do it,would have been the cherry on the cake!

 

[Mendara]

They really had no clue what they were doing. Clearing the house of all the people in it and investigating properly would have been the thing to do.

 

[minazoe]

police were expecting a quiet Christmas morning...

thats another issue...

I don't think murderers and kidnappers are out running around on x-mas eve...

hard to find an alibi if u r the perp, right?

Bars are on skeleton crew...mostly regulars...folks not staying up too late...private parties...family nite etc.

Does anyone know how many people came through the Ramsey house for the tour of the x-mas trees etc?

Were the Ramsey's at home for the tour? I can't remember the deets.

if someone hid inside the house...they had to leave the house too....so, how did they leave?

 

[minazoe]

sorry for the double post...I meant to put this here:

kids have trouble sleeping on christmas... i wonder if B and JB were up sneaking around the house...playing doctor in the basement...eating their favorite treat...swinging around flashlights and baseball bats..hiding in the wine cellar...

I have known some very sadistic boys in my life who did some very bad things at a very young age...I wonder if B is hetero as a young man? I wonder if he in fact commited the whole thing. I wonder how intelligent he is? what does he do now?

did Burke play sex games with JB on Christmas night? was burke acting out? did he resent JB and all her dress up with mommy?

children can be cruel and evil...and weird like me....

and as an example...


I can rememember times as a young child where I got up in the middle of the night and pretended to be a silent cat..climibing all over the furniture...on top of dressers etc...playing a game to see if I could do it and not wake up my mother.

Also I knew a boy that tried to drown me in the pool when we were about nine years old....he was jealous of me and hated me...because he wanted to be a girl. ( we found this out later).