Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother

  • #261
I wonder how many Christmas day/nite kidnappings the FBI has dealt with?

Oh wait...the foreign faction were not made aware that American families get together on the biggest day of the year, partying, overnite guests possibly sleeping on the couch, etc...

Minazoa...the Ramseys did not have a Christmas Tour in 1996. They had a Christmas party on the 23d.
 
  • #262
I don't know Toltec, I seem to remember there being a x-mas tour and that was one of their scenarios...that someone remained in the Rasey house waiting for them to return from the party which happened in the evening....no?
 
  • #263
Some of the questions I have, include:

1. Why did the Ramseys lie about Burke being asleep?

2. Why did the Ramseys each have a different story about what happened after the Christmas party and returning home?

3: why was Burke not gotten up and out of his room immediately, if the Ramseys believed there were kidnappers involved?

4: Why did Burke appear not to care, or show surprise, that his sister had been killed?


Nine year old boys, can be jealous, mean, spiteful and violent. They can also be very resentful and hold grudges. They are also curious about sexuality and the feelings they may be experiencing. What, if Burke had some or all of these feelings, could they have enticed him to do?

Was Burke perhaps jealous that Jon Benet was not only Mommy's 'pet', but Daddys little princess?
 
  • #264
I don't know Toltec, I seem to remember there being a x-mas tour and that was one of their scenarios...that someone remained in the Rasey house waiting for them to return from the party which happened in the evening....no?

There was no Christmas tour in '96. It was the year or two before the murder, I believe.
 
  • #265
Some of the questions I have, include:

1. Why did the Ramseys lie about Burke being asleep?

2. Why did the Ramseys each have a different story about what happened after the Christmas party and returning home?

3: why was Burke not gotten up and out of his room immediately, if the Ramseys believed there were kidnappers involved?

4: Why did Burke appear not to care, or show surprise, that his sister had been killed?


Nine year old boys, can be jealous, mean, spiteful and violent. They can also be very resentful and hold grudges. They are also curious about sexuality and the feelings they may be experiencing. What, if Burke had some or all of these feelings, could they have enticed him to do?

Was Burke perhaps jealous that Jon Benet was not only Mommy's 'pet', but Daddys little princess?

These questions are why Burke will never be completely free from suspicion in the general public, no matter how many D.A.s "clear" him. As DA Garnett has illustrated: people can be cleared and uncleared by a DA, but without a trial and conviction, no one in that home is ever going to be free from suspicion.
 
  • #266
These questions are why Burke will never be completely free from suspicion in the general public, no matter how many D.A.s "clear" him. As DA Garnett has illustrated: people can be cleared and uncleared by a DA, but without a trial and conviction, no one in that home is ever going to be free from suspicion.

KoldKase, I'm sure you know the answer to this question and it has been bothering me for a long time. If LE determined the killer to be BR, how would we ever know the case was closed? I know they cannot name him because of his age at the time. I don't believe BR is the culprit, but this is one of the things about this case that has bothered me a great deal.
 
  • #267
KoldKase, I'm sure you know the answer to this question and it has been bothering me for a long time. If LE determined the killer to be BR, how would we ever know the case was closed? I know they cannot name him because of his age at the time. I don't believe BR is the culprit, but this is one of the things about this case that has bothered me a great deal.

It's an interesting question, and I can only speculate because I'm not a lawyer nor a legal scholar.

But using the Michael Skakel case as an example, though that all happened in another state, and laws vary from state to state, here are some thoughts I have about it.

The DA would have to decide whether to try to charge the case in juvenile court, though that might not even be possible since Burke was a month short of turning ten, the absolute cut off at that time for committing a crime. (Skakel was either 14 or 15 at the time of Martha Moxley's murder.)

So if that were not even possible in Boulder, my guess is that somehow the case would then be given a status of "closed", even though it would in all probability be sealed, as well.

Now, whether the DA would do that, considering that it wouldn't be hard for the public to draw the correct inference, I don't know.

If not, then we would never know, would we? Unless someone inside LE there leaked it. And that would probably be risking job and career, as no doubt it would be a firestorm equal to the 14 years of enmity in this case.

On the other hand, Michael Skakel was eventually tried--and convicted--in an adult court and has been in prison for something like 9 years or so since. The judge who made the final decision to try Skakel in an adult court based that essentially upon a reality: he couldn't be remanded to a juvenile facility if he were convicted. This has been appealed, along with other issues, but Skakel is still in prison.

The Moxley family, while happy and relieved to finally know the truth about who murdered Martha and get some measure of justice, have noted that had Skakel not been protected by his family and the crime covered up by them and LE for so long, he would probably have gotten a few years in a juvenile detention, mental health treatment, and have been released at 18 and gone on to live a more productive life and certainly not end up in prison for something like 25 years with his own son growing up without a father.

Another parallel between that case and this one: the Skakels were very rich, even connected by marriage and blood to the Kennedys. They worked that to subvert justice for many years in this case. The Kennedys also showed up in court for their cousin, some think to impress the jury and get him off. They have continued to campaign on his behalf and even have spent a couple of decades making miserable the life of the poor tutor/nanny newly hired and moved in that fateful October, a man they have used as their "intruder" so long he has literally been mentally ill with the stress and suspicion that has dogged his life.

Anyway, I guess the issue is whether Boulder LE would follow the law and protocol for disposing a juvenile case or decide to use the resources and maybe even make law on it, if Burke were the one who committed these acts.

Or maybe it would be easier and cheaper just to let it hang in limbo for all time.

These are my thoughts. I'd like to hear what a lawyer or legal scholar had to say on it, though.

I believe I read a few years ago that Colorado changed the legal age for being charged with a crime, though. I think I read it is now 9 yrs. of age, particularly in a crime like murder. I hope I'm not misremembering that. Whether that could play a part in this crime, I don't know. The laws had changed in Skakel's state since the time of the murder, lowering the legal age limit for committing a crime within his age range at the time he killed Moxley. Before that law was changed, Skakel actually was too young to be charged as an adult, but the judge didn't really let that influence the decision to try him as an adult for the aforementioned reason. It's a very unusual case, and Skakel has received no slack by the legal system in it once he was finally charged.

In fact, it was a right miracle that brought him to justice at all. That miracle started with Dominique Dunne writing a book of fiction based on the actual case. It scared the family so bad, the father hired PIs to do some investigating and they, oddly enough, got the Skakel brothers to talk about the night of the murder and had it written up in a transcript by someone they hired, but forgot to sign to secrecy. That young man, so incensed at the truth that came out in those interviews, secretly sent copies of the documents to Dunne. Dunne then got them to none other than...Mark Furhman, who wrote his own non-fiction book; and that started a new investigation with new DAs who didn't want this political, legal, and moral stain on the state any longer.

So who knows...it may not be over. We just may not live long enough to see the end of this epic tragedy.
 
  • #268
Whatever happened to Jon Benet that night, I honestly believe that her brother was involved. In his interviews I tend to believe his statements over John and Patsy, as they have proven themselves to be liars over and over again, not only by words, but by actions.

The only logical reasoning behind what they did, following Jon Benets death, is protection of someone. My honest, deep down gut reaction, is that Burke was responsible for his sisters sexual abuse, maybe occurring through 'play', and somehow Jon Benet was killed the night the parents found out about it.

Bottom line, self centered, uncaring behaviors of cover up.

Will Burke ever talk? Why should he? He has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I honestly believe that he doesn't feel a need for resolution, as he knows everything that happened that night.

One question? What was Burke and Johns relationship like after Jon Benets death? If it was different, closer, better, he could feel justified in his actions.
 
  • #269
One question? What was Burke and Johns relationship like after Jon Benets death? If it was different, closer, better, he could feel justified in his actions.

All we have is what Team Ramsey tell us on this, so I have no idea what any of these people were like or what the dynamics of their relationships were before or after the murder.

But I can say that JR appeared on LKL for the 10th anniv. of JonBenet's death, the year Patsy died, and Larry King mentioned Burke was offstage watching.

I remember that vividly for one reason: when asked by LK if JR ever wondered what would JB be like today, if she had been able to grow up, John said, after some hesitation, not much. He never addressed what she might have been like, but he did say something that I'll never forget, in the context of all we know: "She was a handful."

Now, it's nitpicking, of course. But of all the things JR could have said, I just thought that was a little...negative. No more "sparkplug" or any of that, just a "handful." That was pretty much it. For the anniv., JR had very little to say about JB or her murder, her murderer, or even Patsy, for that matter.

Then King mentioned Burke was offstage watching. That did give me pause. I think this is the show where JR also stated he'd never let "anyone" get to Burke, meaning the media...or maybe LE?

Well, it's not much, but without any of the women around, JB and Patsy both gone, the show was very somber and had a much different feel than the usual Ramsey appearances with Patsy.

Oh, one other thing: Burke had his Twitter page open for public viewing for about 9 mo's. last year, and he tweeted his locations, where he'd be on such and such a night (for his friends) re: parties and concerts; as well as travels, time schedules for classes and commercial flights, and even an actual map showing the hotel location where he and John were staying in Hawaii last Christmas, getting drunk and having a good time on the 13th anniversary of JB's death. He sure wasn't worried about any intruder showing up, that I can say.
 
  • #270
Whatever happened to Jon Benet that night, I honestly believe that her brother was involved. In his interviews I tend to believe his statements over John and Patsy, as they have proven themselves to be liars over and over again, not only by words, but by actions.

The only logical reasoning behind what they did, following Jon Benets death, is protection of someone. My honest, deep down gut reaction, is that Burke was responsible for his sisters sexual abuse, maybe occurring through 'play', and somehow Jon Benet was killed the night the parents found out about it.

Bottom line, self centered, uncaring behaviors of cover up.

Will Burke ever talk? Why should he? He has everything to lose and nothing to gain. I honestly believe that he doesn't feel a need for resolution, as he knows everything that happened that night.

One question? What was Burke and Johns relationship like after Jon Benets death? If it was different, closer, better, he could feel justified in his actions.

SunnieRN,

Burke knows what happened that night, he likely sipped tea opposite JonBenet as she snacked pineapple. He knew if she was wearing her barbie nightgown whilst snacking or did she dress in it later at someone else's request?

John, Patsy and Burke have all colluded to present a version of events that nearly everyone, excluding IDI's, consider could never have occurred. Don Paugh has been notable by his complete silence. Only Patsy and Nedra attempted to dispel the the notion of dysfuncionality with their reference to, but denial of molestation.

So its possible the collusion represents something larger than each individual contribution to the coverup and silence?


.
 
  • #271
Thank you both for addressing my questions! I think that Burkes networking pages where what changed my mind about him and his guilt. The way he presented himself made my skin crawl. I don't think John is much of a children type of person. I don't really see him as a close person to any of his children. I'm not sure if he has always been this way, or if things changed after Beth died and then Jon Benet. The whole situation goes to show that even if you have money, influence and power, it is not assured that people will like or respect you. Especially if you are without integrity.

Koldkase, I agree that his remark about Jon Benet was callous and unnecessary. I wonder if he ever thinks of good memories of Jon Benet?
 
  • #272
IMHO - i dnt think BR is guilty. I think he was probably privy to something that occured between his parents - or hearing - seeing something he shouldn't of.

I don't think he should be called out for going on with his life. I honestly believe that he too was a victim: can you imagine your family under CONSTANT public scrutiny. My heart goes out to that poor lad...

He's 23 now not 9 - it's been a long time. I don't think his character can be shaped around anythink about what his life is NOW.. the crime was commited THEN. It's like trying to go back to the 40's and send a text message. It just doesn't work.

TBH i dnt think he was directly involved. Harbouring resentment maybe when parents favour other children they know. But not enough to want to take out his little sister. That's just my 2 cents...
 
  • #273
there is something juvenille about the crime scene and the sexual assualt.

the toys, the panties, the blanket, the paint brush, possible baseball bat head injury..yet the idea of a garrott seems a little sophisticated...so I am on the fence.

however, I do beleive a nine year old could commit this crime.
 
  • #274
there is something juvenille about the crime scene and the sexual assualt.

the toys, the panties, the blanket, the paint brush, possible baseball bat head injury..yet the idea of a garrott seems a little sophisticated...so I am on the fence.

however, I do beleive a nine year old could commit this crime.
Me too.
 
  • #275
I will add this ...unless it was a total accident...which it WAS NOT...and IF Burke is responsible...he will do it again...because this type of cruelty is a compulsion...and I beleive PR and JR would do absolutley every kind of lying they could think of to protect him.
 
  • #276
  • #277
I will add this ...unless it was a total accident...which it WAS NOT...and IF Burke is responsible...he will do it again...because this type of cruelty is a compulsion...and I beleive PR and JR would do absolutley every kind of lying they could think of to protect him.

Not necessarily, perhaps the headbash was much like the times he whacked her with the golf club? She didn't die then.........

Maybe he did learn from his mistake, IF it was him
 
  • #278

I bought my son, at age 8 or 9 a book called, "The Dangerous Book for Boys", he LOVED that book, especially the chapter on knot tying. For a good 18 months, no shoelace, bathrobe tie, scarf, rope, or cord was safe. EVERYTHING was knotted up! When he mastered all of those my dad taught him many many more! He is still the "go to dude" when it comes to tying anything, like stuff to the roof of my car.

He was never a scout.
 
  • #279
it wouldn't be like the head bash..and then it could...because sometimes what looks like as accident is actually not an accident... when children are passive aggresive and acting out... they know the lamp might break but they throw the ball in that direction anyway.

If he was downstairs getting up to monkey business other than baseball with his sister..that would be a good reason to cover it up...

so up after hours
go sneak pineapple
take the flashlight
go play in the basement
play doctor and dolls and hide and seek
play tie you up in the wine cellar
strangle and bash JB's head in

jb doesn't get up

Burke reluctantly wakes his parents

hell ensues.
 
  • #280
I would add that JB screams because he hurt her, and that's when he bashed her on the head. Maybe he didn't run to tell them, maybe they heard the scream (as did the neighbor across the street) and maybe he snuck back up to his room before his parents go there. He didn't know she was dead and maybe they didn't want to tell him he'd killed her.
 

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