Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother

[freshwater]

When I read the Ramsey's book '"Death of Innocence", one thing that really struck me was the absence of very many references to Burke. It seemed they only mentioned him in the book when they absolutely had to, and otherwise wanted to totally downplay his very existence. Why?

I'm about 2/3rd of the way through that book right now. A couple things that have struck me about it so far:

- Seemingly excessive use of exclamation points.
- Many references to JonBenet's "death". I'm sorry, but if my child was brutally murdered, I would not be referring to it as her "death". I would forever talk about it as her "murder" or "killing". Always.

 

[feddup]

Good morning, feddup! The sad part is that if they didn't have anything to do with JonBenet's death, they brought on most of their suffering themselves with their attitude and refusal to help find the "real" killer. Also, I can't imagine any reason for them to not talk about JonBenet. She had six beautiful years of life and those six years would have been all I could have talked about to anyone who would listen. I'm sure people would have gotten tired of hearing me talk about my beautiful JonBenet!

me, too I know because my first husband died 20 yrs ago and I still talk about him. Frankly, the Ramseys seemed to dote on JBR Im surprised they did not talk about her ALOT. I dont forget, why would they want to forget someone? And Id certainly want to keep her memory alive for BR.
JMO
In 6 yrs, a little person can give you alot of nice memories.

I wouldve talked to the police alot also. I would be so mad and want to see justice that I wouldve told them any little detail I could think of to help them find who did it. I know that they were in shock and grieving but......I just dont understand this case because on one hand, it is hard to imagine them doing it but on the other hand, not much of it makes sense.
I thought that when I wathed the documentary. They said the killer had to have gone by a door on the way to the basement and they questioned why JBR wasnt taken out then by the intruder. but who knows what happened.
Its hard for me to imagine parents or a brother doing this though:waitasec:
If Jonbenet was annoying, PR surely couldve hired a Nanny. She seemed like a very involved Mother.

 

[LinasK]

A lot of us seem to get caught up in the opinion that her abuse had to be at the hands of John, but I think they would have covered for Burke just as much (maybe more than John). Actually if it were me, NO WAY I would cover for my husband if he was abusing my six year old. A lot of people think Patsy would have covered for John because of her disease and how much she loved her lifestyle, I sure hope that's not the case as it speaks volumes to her character. Most mothers have that protective gene and would kill for their children, not protect their killer.

But... Patsy was a stand-by-your-man kinda gal, and (I've said this before), there are women who will not only stand by their man over their child, but also disbelieve the child who tells them they have been abused. They go into denial- I have personal experience with this...

 

[madeleine]

But... Patsy was a stand-by-your-man kinda gal, and (I've said this before), there are women who will not only stand by their man over their child, but also disbelieve the child who tells them they have been abused. They go into denial- I have personal experience with this...

@bold.
There are also situations when these "mothers" know exactly what's going on and not only do they stand by their "man" but they are driving the poor child crazy by trying to convince him/her that "it happens in all families","it's not a big deal ","YOU are overreacting","you're nuts","you're ungrateful","you don't know anything"....:furious: I so hate this subject because I could go on and on and I don't wanna go angry now.It doesn't happen only with sexually abused kids,but with all abused kids,verbally,emotionally.These mothers IMO are worse than the dads who are doing it somehow.They are the ones who enable such behaviour.

 

[noonie]

This is just too wierd! Patsy was involved IMO. These threads are too creepy? How long can we go? This is insane.

 

[joeskidbeck]

LinasK and Madeleine, I can feel the pain in your posts and believe me when I say that I have NO sympathy for Patsy whatsoever if she even had a hint or gut feeling that someone was abusing her daughter and she did nothing to protect her. If a child tells her mother she is being abused, either sexually, physically, or emotionally and that mother doesn't believe her or get help, that mother should be brought up on charges herself. If our state laws don't allow for that, they should be changed. Besides, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I think if one of my daughters were being abused, I would pick up on it without having to be told. I don' think they could hide it from me and that's what makes Patsy such an evil woman in my opinion. Some folks think she may have been abused herself and as such would think it normal behavior in families (bullsnot!). Let's face it, someone had probably looked up the word "incest" in their dictionary. Why would any adult have to look up the meaning of that word? And why would any child look it up in the first place unless an adult was showing him the meaning! Sorry, it seems I went off on a rant. Will stop now.

 

[BBB167893]

LinasK and Madeleine, I can feel the pain in your posts and believe me when I say that I have NO sympathy for Patsy whatsoever if she even had a hint or gut feeling that someone was abusing her daughter and she did nothing to protect her.

Agreed. If that was the case, my sympathy for her (and there's quite a bit of it) goes right out the window!

 

[feddup]

Agreed. If that was the case, my sympathy for her (and there's quite a bit of it) goes right out the window!

Are you sure that is the case? She seemed like the type who would lawyer up, get both kids and really take JR to the cleaners.

 

[BBB167893]

Are you sure that is the case?

No, I'm not. But, sadly, it's a fairly common occurence.

She seemed like the type who would lawyer up, get both kids and really take JR to the cleaners.

Really? What makes you think that? She never seemed that way to me. Her need for affection and approval colored a lot of her actions.

 

[feddup]

Im not really sure superDave. Maybe from interviews Ive seen her in. I
did not get the feeling she was the wimpy type and that in her book it would seem, well, people have said she went nuts over a bedwetting episode....then how do you think she wouldve taken THAT one of finding her husband molesting her daughter? whoa! No, it just my opinion of course but I dont think she wouldve put up with that. She wouldv'e called her Mother and Mother wouldve told her: get the best lawyer you can get we are taking JR to the cleaners and he will never be around the kids again.

 

[SunnieRN]

It wasn't the night before Christmas. It was Christmas night. The 25-26th.
If BR were my son, I'd have had him in counseling no matter how his sister had died, but for a horrific death like this, for sure. I doubt they did, though. Patsy said that they NEVER mentioned JB again to him, nor did he ever ask about her or about what happened. Now, you can believe what you want about his involvement or lack of, but THAT is just abnormal no matter what. He wasn't a toddler then, he was almost 10.

I feel that it would be almost impossible for me to, never talk about my daughter again. It would also be very abnormal for Burke to never ask questions about her death. Think about kids at school. All those years, his friends never asked any questions? He was never fearful about something happening to him? I find both of these things doubtful, let alone even possible.

Add to this the police interviews, book tour, the times J & P were on CNN and various other shows. Magzines, movies, 'specials', and of course parents that he would meet. Impossible that JB was NEVER talked about.

Just another Ramsey lie. As for no counseling, I don't think they loved Burke as they said they do, if that is the truth. Gives me another insight as to their child abuse issues however.

 

[BBB167893]

Im not really sure superDave.

Okay.

Maybe from interviews Ive seen her in. I did not get the feeling she was the wimpy type and that in her book it would seem, well, people have said she went nuts over a bedwetting episode....then how do you think she wouldve taken THAT one of finding her husband molesting her daughter? whoa!

One step at a time, feddup. I didn't say she was wimpy. I said she seemed very needy. A lot of her life is characterized by doing things to bring attention and approval. Whether or not one would lead to the other, I couldn't say for sure.

As for actually finding her husband molesting her daughter, i.e., catching him red-handed, I don't imagine she would have taken that at ALL. The idea here is that she may have had suspicions and been in heavy denial, which is fairly common in abuse cases. Indeed, if JB had let the secret slip that night, Patsy's rage could have been brought on by a need to punish JB for telling such "filthy lies."

And as for "going nuts" over a bedwetting episode, it helps to understand context. Here's a woman who was a survivor of cancer and cancer treatments (and don't I know what THAT can do to a person's mind) who had taken on a TON of stress: not only was she knocking herself out trying to ensure the perfect Christmas, but she was dealing with two trying kids, one of which was regressing even further in toilet training and was starting to want her own life. Add to that her upcoming 40th birthday, and the knowledge that the very next day she'd have to get up extra early, fly out to Michigan and do it all over again, THEN have to fly out to Florida for another family outing. It's possible JB having another accident was the proverbial last straw. I'm not aware of anyone saying that she went nuts over the bedwetting in and of itself. If there IS someone reading this who thinks that, please let me know!

No, it just my opinion of course but I dont think she wouldve put up with that. She would've called her Mother and Mother wouldve told her: get the best lawyer you can get we are taking JR to the cleaners and he will never be around the kids again.

I agree, IF she knew for sure.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Im not really sure superDave. Maybe from interviews Ive seen her in. I
did not get the feeling she was the wimpy type and that in her book it would seem, well, people have said she went nuts over a bedwetting episode....then how do you think she wouldve taken THAT one of finding her husband molesting her daughter? whoa! No, it just my opinion of course but I dont think she wouldve put up with that. She wouldv'e called her Mother and Mother wouldve told her: get the best lawyer you can get we are taking JR to the cleaners and he will never be around the kids again.

Even is JonBenet was molested "just a little"?

 

[joeskidbeck]

"No, it just my opinion of course but I dont think she wouldve put up with that. She would've called her Mother and Mother wouldve told her: get the best lawyer you can get we are taking JR to the cleaners and he will never be around the kids again"-quoted/feddup

An ordinary mother would have said and done just that. There are a lot of people who believe that molestation may have run in the Paugh family. If you look at this from that perspective, Nedra's advice to Patsy may have been something like: Now honey, you know your dad never hurt you or your sisters, calm down and think about this before you do anything rash. Besides, we don't know that a judge or anyone else will even believe John is capable of such a thing. End of advice.
Nedra is, after all, the person who said JonBenet was only a little bit molested. That is not a normal reaction from a grandmother who just learned her granddaughter was sexually abused. Not even close. The rage that I (and a lot of others here) would have felt would have been enough to do physical harm to him or anyone else who committed this atrocity.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Im not really sure superDave. Maybe from interviews Ive seen her in. I
did not get the feeling she was the wimpy type and that in her book it would seem, well, people have said she went nuts over a bedwetting episode....then how do you think she wouldve taken THAT one of finding her husband molesting her daughter? whoa! No, it just my opinion of course but I dont think she wouldve put up with that. She wouldv'e called her Mother and Mother wouldve told her: get the best lawyer you can get we are taking JR to the cleaners and he will never be around the kids again.

BBM

We have heard that she went nuts over the bedwetting, but she may have actually went nuts over what she knew was behind the bedwetting. This is why I believe Patsy went looking with a mag light that night. Looking for JR and found him in JB's room. The rest is history.

 

[feddup]

if that is the case, JR not JBR wouldve gotten the maglight to the head.
I dont know much about Nedra, the Grandmother. I only know she came out when PR was so sick.
Is there a link I can go to? thanks in advance.
Why do people think that there was incest in the fam of Patsy? Like I said, I dont know much about them. If so, I would not think she would want her father around JBR at all.

 

[feddup]

Even is JonBenet was molested "just a little"?

I dont think there is anything such as "just a little".
I think PR wouldve been appalled by any of it. JMO

I think JBR semed like the chatty type. If this wouldve been going on I think she wouldve told her Mother. It seems she spent more time with PR than the Dad. Wasnt he away on business alot?

 

[joeskidbeck]

if that is the case, JR not JBR wouldve gotten the maglight to the head.
I dont know much about Nedra, the Grandmother. I only know she came out when PR was so sick.
Is there a link I can go to? thanks in advance.
Why do people think that there was incest in the fam of Patsy? Like I said, I dont know much about them. If so, I would not think she would want her father around JBR at all.

I believe it was in "DOI" that Patsy talked abou Nedra staying at their home while she was having her treatments. She also said that Nedra slept in JonBenet's room. That could have been so that she could be close to JB, but it also could have been to keep anyone else from getting close to JB.
It's only opinion (as far as I'm concerned) about the abuse in the Paugh family, taken from things I have read over the years. Nedra's remarks about JonBenet only being a little bit molested was in one of the interviews. I will need to search to find it, unless someone else knows where it can be located. This kind of remark reeks of a woman who turned a blind eye when her own children were being abused. Even if it is only touching, it is still abuse. Nobody has the right to touch a child on their private parts, nobody. There is no such thing as a little bit molested!

 

[feddup]

Okay.



One step at a time, feddup. I didn't say she was wimpy. I said she seemed very needy. A lot of her life is characterized by doing things to bring attention and approval. Whether or not one would lead to the other, I couldn't say for sure.

As for actually finding her husband molesting her daughter, i.e., catching him red-handed, I don't imagine she would have taken that at ALL. The idea here is that she may have had suspicions and been in heavy denial, which is fairly common in abuse cases. Indeed, if JB had let the secret slip that night, Patsy's rage could have been brought on by a need to punish JB for telling such "filthy lies."

And as for "going nuts" over a bedwetting episode, it helps to understand context. Here's a woman who was a survivor of cancer and cancer treatments (and don't I know what THAT can do to a person's mind) who had taken on a TON of stress: not only was she knocking herself out trying to ensure the perfect Christmas, but she was dealing with two trying kids, one of which was regressing even further in toilet training and was starting to want her own life. Add to that her upcoming 40th birthday, and the knowledge that the very next day she'd have to get up extra early, fly out to Michigan and do it all over again, THEN have to fly out to Florida for another family outing. It's possible JB having another accident was the proverbial last straw. I'm not aware of anyone saying that she went nuts over the bedwetting in and of itself. If there IS someone reading this who thinks that, please let me know!



I agree, IF she knew for sure.

Steve Thomas' whole theory is PR kill JBR over bedwetting. (see LKL interview with him and the Ramseys)

Turning 40......I dont think it wouldve been a big deal. She survived cancer and probably was glad just o be ALIVE.
As far as Christmas, it seemed like she was one of the types who really does it up big. Some people, its their fave time of yr. I am surprised though there werent more pics taken that final Christmas.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Sorry, I forgot to address the first line of your post: "if that is the case, JR not JBR wouldve gotten the maglight to the head."

It is my opinion that the maglight was meant for JR but he jumped out of the way and it landed on JonBenet.