Boulder Police meet with JonBenet Ramsey's now adult brother

[feddup]

Sorry, I forgot to address the first line of your post: "if that is the case, JR not JBR wouldve gotten the maglight to the head."

It is my opinion that the maglight was meant for JR but he jumped out of the way and it landed on JonBenet.

WOW if that is true, so sad

 

[Ames]

BBM

We have heard that she went nuts over the bedwetting, but she may have actually went nuts over what she knew was behind the bedwetting. This is why I believe Patsy went looking with a mag light that night. Looking for JR and found him in JB's room. The rest is history.

I swear that I read...and now I don't remember where...that Patsy used a flashlight to go in and wake JB to take her to the bathroom, because she had such a bedwetting problem. Don't know why she didn't just turn the dang lights on.

 

[Ames]

Steve Thomas' whole theory is PR kill JBR over bedwetting. (see LKL interview with him and the Ramseys)

Turning 40......I dont think it wouldve been a big deal. She survived cancer and probably was glad just o be ALIVE.
As far as Christmas, it seemed like she was one of the types who really does it up big. Some people, its their fave time of yr. I am surprised though there werent more pics taken that final Christmas.

ITA..I think that I have seen two. One of JB and her presents, and one with Patsy gripping JB's arm (Patsy looking like she had been crying). They seemed to videotape every single moment of JB's life...her pageants, I have seen video with her playing in her room, etc. Just random stuff....but, I have heard TWO reasons why the Ramseys didn't videotape that final Christmas. John said that he just wanted to remember the moment....wanted to be part of it, instead of being behind the cam-corder. That is why they decided not to videotape...and then I have heard that the battery was dead in the cam-corder....ummmm...that is what the plug is for. I found that pretty odd.

 

[feddup]

I did see a video of JBR at Christmas but she looked quite young, she had shortish curly hair. She looked about 3....

Oh yes, I do remember now that he said in the book he didnt want to spend all the time behind a cam, to spend it with the kids after losing his oldest daughter.

they sure seemed to take a zillion pix of JonBenet! I dont know if they were professionally taken but we have seen alot havent we? PR seemed to spend alot on fancy dresses for her but then, they were rich people.
I didnt like the last pics of JR in that white dress, her hair was too overdone for her age IMO

 

[feddup]

I swear that I read...and now I don't remember where...that Patsy used a flashlight to go in and wake JB to take her to the bathroom, because she had such a bedwetting problem. Don't know why she didn't just turn the dang lights on.

or a nighlight in her room. :waitasec:

 

[Ames]

I did see a video of JBR at Christmas but she looked quite young, she had shortish curly hair. She looked about 3....

Oh yes, I do remember now that he said in the book he didnt want to spend all the time behind a cam, to spend it with the kids after losing his oldest daughter.

they sure seemed to take a zillion pix of JonBenet! I dont know if they were professionally taken but we have seen alot havent we? PR seemed to spend alot on fancy dresses for her but then, they were rich people.
I didnt like the last pics of JR in that white dress, her hair was too overdone for her age IMO

Funny how...they have all of these videos....even ones of Christmas' past...but for some reason....all of the sudden...John gets all emotional and decides, on THIS PARTICULAR Christmas...of 96, the Christmas that his daughter is murdered....NOT to videotape because he decided all of the sudden not to spend all of that time behind a cam-corder, to spend it with the kids after losing his oldest daughter. How "ironic". Kinda funny how he chooses this particular Christmas to decide this.

 

[claudicici]

I swear that I read...and now I don't remember where...that Patsy used a flashlight to go in and wake JB to take her to the bathroom, because she had such a bedwetting problem. Don't know why she didn't just turn the dang lights on.

didn't I read somewhere that you actually had to go inside of JonBenet's room to turn on the light manually?There was no switch?

 

[Ames]

didn't I read somewhere that you actually had to go inside of JonBenet's room to turn on the light manually?There was no switch?

I don't know...you could be right about that...maybe that is why she used a flashlight. I do know that JB had a lamp in her room that stayed on at night.

 

[LinasK]

I did see a video of JBR at Christmas but she looked quite young, she had shortish curly hair. She looked about 3....

Oh yes, I do remember now that he said in the book he didnt want to spend all the time behind a cam, to spend it with the kids after losing his oldest daughter.

they sure seemed to take a zillion pix of JonBenet! I dont know if they were professionally taken but we have seen alot havent we? PR seemed to spend alot on fancy dresses for her but then, they were rich people.
I didnt like the last pics of JR in that white dress, her hair was too overdone for her age IMO

JonBenet was also a dyed blonde, her natural hair color was brown! I've seen photos of her when she was 4, and she was a brunette.

 

[azwriter]

JonBenet was also a dyed blonde, her natural hair color was brown! I've seen photos of her when she was 4, and she was a brunette.

You're right and her hair seemed to become lighter and lighter as the pageants increased.

But, it seems photos of her in the last days of her life, look as if she needed her roots touched up.
It still irks me a 6-year-old child would have something like that as part of her life. She was adorable, very pretty. Whatever was in her mother's mind to make this little girl something she was not? Did Patsy research pageant winners and decide blondes had an edge on first place? jmo

 

[azwriter]

Funny how...they have all of these videos....even ones of Christmas' past...but for some reason....all of the sudden...John gets all emotional and decides, on THIS PARTICULAR Christmas...of 96, the Christmas that his daughter is murdered....NOT to videotape because he decided all of the sudden not to spend all of that time behind a cam-corder, to spend it with the kids after losing his oldest daughter. How "ironic". Kinda funny how he chooses this particular Christmas to decide this.

Thanks Ames for pointing this out. It's just another tale the Ramsey's tell to make their account of that day and night fit the circumstance. I would bet my SS check that somewhere, there was a Christmas morning video of all the festivities filmed by John or Patsy. But keeping it underwraps, denying one exists somehow benefits their testimony. jmo

 

[azwriter]

I dont think there is anything such as "just a little".
I think PR wouldve been appalled by any of it. JMO

I think JBR semed like the chatty type. If this wouldve been going on I think she wouldve told her Mother. It seems she spent more time with PR than the Dad. Wasnt he away on business alot?

You're right feddup, there wasn't "just a little" molestation. From the physical evidence of JonBenet's body, there was previous molestation. Enough to show an erosion of her hymen. I hate typing that.
jmo

 

[feddup]

I know azwriter, it is hard to read
but....if this were true wouldnt her Pediatrician have turned it in? Legally, they are supposed to.
Not saying its not true, just dont understand why a Drwouldnt say anything.

yes, I think jonbenet's hair was more a brown, too. It was definately dyed. Ive seen this go on in some video on kids who enter those pageants. (dye hair, hair extensions, etc)
I can understand PR being a former beauty pageant winner being interested in this but that was going too far I think to dye a 6 yr olds hair.
I did think JBR's cowboy swetheart outfit was cute and age appropriate but some of the others, well too much.

 

[joeskidbeck]

JonBenet was just as beautiful with brunette hair as she was with blonde. I'm sure Patsy took note of every pageant winner and counted how many of them were blonde.
How could she do that? I betcha the year that she lost Miss America, the winner was blonde. Any takers?

 

[DeeDee249]

I know azwriter, it is hard to read
but....if this were true wouldnt her Pediatrician have turned it in? Legally, they are supposed to.
Not saying its not true, just dont understand why a Drwouldnt say anything.

yes, I think jonbenet's hair was more a brown, too. It was definately dyed. Ive seen this go on in some video on kids who enter those pageants. (dye hair, hair extensions, etc)
I can understand PR being a former beauty pageant winner being interested in this but that was going too far I think to dye a 6 yr olds hair.
I did think JBR's cowboy swetheart outfit was cute and age appropriate but some of the others, well too much.

We've discussed the pediatrician a lot on this forum. He never did an internal or pelvic exam on JB, never used a speculum on her. Without doing that, he would not have seen the evidence of abuse that was seen at the autopsy. You do understand that during an autopsy, the body is dissected- the coroner will see things that otherwise would not be seen. That being said, if a speculum had been used on JB by her doctor, he would have seen the erosion and possibly bruising that had not healed at that point.
Her doctor had nothing that he could report. Nothing that in the course of regular exams would be reason to. If he suspected her frequent infections were suspicious in nature, he did not say so, and so the "diagnosis" was vaginal irritation from her persistent wetting and soiling her pants and/or Patsy's habit of allowing the bubblebaths to continue.
Some women who knew Patsy have said that she used a douche on JB to clean her more thoroughly, especially the feces that would surely be a problem in a child that age. Douching s child would certainly add to the irritation of her vagina.
As far as her hair, yes, Patsy DID feel that blondes had an advantage in the pageants. JB was not a dark brunette, but her natural hair was a sandy brown that probably did get some natural highlights in the summer, but Patsy added to that by chemically highlighting JB's hair.
JB also wore some hair extensions or falls. Her natural hair is not nearly as thick or curly as it appears in some pageants and pageant photos.
JB's eyes are naturally a light green. Patsy was said to have JB wear blue contacts, though this hasn't been proven and I don't think Patsy had admitted it.

 

[otg]

You're right feddup, there wasn't "just a little" molestation. From the physical evidence of JonBenet's body, there was previous molestation. Enough to show an erosion of her hymen. I hate typing that.
jmo

A couple of things on this:

I agree with all who have expressed the difficulty in even discussing this. After all, we are talking about a child who we feel somewhat like we've come to know -- someone maybe like we might even know in our own lives. But nevertheless, we do this in hopes of figuring out what happened so that hopefully some sort of "justice" might be dealt.

As to a doctor having to report... I'm not in any way in the medical field, but I do believe a doctor would be required to report if he/she "knew" that some type of molestation were happening. But there is the gray area, whether or not it could be determined with any more than suspicion that it was occurring.

Also, I don't think an examination of the hymen would be part of a typical, regularly scheduled physical (I'm a guy and I don't have any daughters, so ladies help me on that one.) It may have been something that a doctor would have looked at, if the girl (as was the case with JonBenet) were brought in because of an irritation in that area. But then, we don't know how long it had been since her last doctor's visit in relation to when the molestation first began. It could have started only recently before her death.

I also have to state here that I don't believe John was molesting his daughter. I know such things happen, probably more often than any of us would like to know, but I really don't see it in this case. Just my opinion, not based on any facts, but I'm entitled to it.

 

[otg]

Thanks, DeeDee249, for clearing up some of my lack of personal knowledge. Actually, I was still working off-and-on on my response before I knew you had posted. Had I read your response I wouldn't have had to show my ignorance on such matters.

Thanks, again.

 

[DeeDee249]

A doctor would be required to report IF he knew, and IF he SAID he knew. No one can compel a pediatrician to "suspect" abuse. JB's exams were external only. Some redness and/or irritation- that it all. That is all he saw, and possibly all he wanted to see. He did not investigate further, so to continue to speculate about the "lack of evidence of abuse or the doctor would have reported it" is pointless.

A more thorough exam, with speculum, light and possibly pelvic palpation (actually touching the ovaries, uterus, etc) is emphatically NOT part of a normal exam of ANY child and of most young women who are not sexually active or having specific gynecological issues.

We really have to let go of this ( the evidence or lack of evidence seen or not reported by JB's doctor). There was NONE noted because there was NONE looked for.

 

[Ames]

JonBenet was just as beautiful with brunette hair as she was with blonde. I'm sure Patsy took note of every pageant winner and counted how many of them were blonde.
How could she do that? I betcha the year that she lost Miss America, the winner was blonde. Any takers?

You just gave me something else to research.

Miss America 1977 was blonde...I know that Patsy was Miss WV 1977, but not sure if the Miss America Pageant she was in, was 77 or78.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

You just gave me something else to research.

Miss America 1977 was blonde...I know that Patsy was Miss WV 1977, but not sure if the Miss America Pageant she was in, was 77 or78.

It would have been the Miss America 1978 pageant.