BREAKING NEWS!!! Decision on Monday

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"all I know that they were fully investigated and there was no crime to answer for - no forensics - no witnesses - no last minute confession - no body

good enough for me".


Gord,

Have you finished reading the 57 page final report released yesterday?
 
"all I know that they were fully investigated and there was no crime to answer for - no forensics - no witnesses - no last minute confession - no body

good enough for me".

Gord,

Have you finished reading the 57 page final report released yesterday?

I havent read it all - snippets from other sites and the news - but come on the case is over - the police didnt find any evidence of either a crime being comitted or the parents being involved - even the damming DNA in the boot of the car on second analysis was found to be inconclusive.

I dont know what else you want -

do you not respect the Portugese Judicary and PJ -
 
Portuguese police have admitted that Kate and Gerry McCann were made arguidos in their daughter's disappearance on the "mere possibility" of their involvement and subsequently no evidence was found to support the suspicions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...uidos-on-mere-possibility-of-involvement.html

The admission came in the final report by Portuguese police.

The report also said the investigation was hampered by intense media scrutiny.
"This investigation was carried out under conditions of exceptional media scrutiny with the publication of immense numbers of 'reports' of imprecise, inexact or even false content, which did not help, at all, the discovery of the truth and created, on several occasions, a climate of useless commotion and lack of serenity."
*****
Geeez...how about this little gem from the PJ!! :waitasec: :banghead:
If this is true I think a lot of this report can be taken with a big pinch of salt. IMO
 
It's very simple actually....

The McCanns admitted that they left their children alone in an unlocked apartment, on a number of occasions, even after the children expressed their distress at this behavior.

This neglect was reckless, dangerous, selfish and ILLEGAL. It resulted in the vanishing of a defenseless 3 year old girl.

They should be on trial for this neglect and, IMO, they should be sitting in a Portuguese prison.

This is the crux of the matter and no matter what else I suspect may have happened, this alone PROVES that JUSTICE has not been served and the McCanns are getting away with criminal conduct.

FULL STOP.
 
Exactly, Colomom. If they were welfare parents living in Podunk, USA with no money or political clout, they'd have been hauled off to jail right away and their kids would've been put into protective custody.

I've read it many times - parents who left their children for less time than those two arrogant, selfish poor excuses for guardians and wound up being prosecuted by the law.

As they should be.
 
It's very simple actually....

The McCanns admitted that they left their children alone in an unlocked apartment, on a number of occasions, even after the children expressed their distress at this behavior.

This neglect was reckless, dangerous, selfish and ILLEGAL. It resulted in the vanishing of a defenseless 3 year old girl.

They should be on trial for this neglect and, IMO, they should be sitting in a Portuguese prison.

This is the crux of the matter and no matter what else I suspect may have happened, this alone PROVES that JUSTICE has not been served and the McCanns are getting away with criminal conduct.

FULL STOP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/McCanns-fury--despair--Portuguese-police-finally-cleared.html

Mr Monteiro was careful to highlight the fact that the McCanns and fellow arguido Robert Murat were no longer under suspicion of any crime.
There had been widespread speculation that the couple might have faced child neglect charges over their decision to leave their three youngsters alone in their rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, while they had dinner with friends at a tapas bar nearby.
The attorney general said: 'The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been archived as no evidence was discovered of any crime committed by the arguidos.
'Hereby the condition of arguido of Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy ceases, and the bail measures imposed upon them have expired.'
******
No evidence of any crime!!!
This would include baby listening as it isn't yet illegal in Europe!
And believing it should be doesn't make it so.
 
Baby listening????

You mean such as:

On page 2412, is the interview with PAMELA FENN, who relates several details, of which, though not clarifying the facts, are elucidating. PAMELA FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at about 23h45. This witness places in cause the allegation (by the parents) of the daily routine of visits every 30 minutes to check the children who had been left on their own.

Oh, there is evidence all right.....
 
Baby listening????

You mean such as:

On page 2412, is the interview with PAMELA FENN, who relates several details, of which, though not clarifying the facts, are elucidating. PAMELA FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at about 23h45. This witness places in cause the allegation (by the parents) of the daily routine of visits every 30 minutes to check the children who had been left on their own.

Oh, there is evidence all right.....
Yes baby listening. Which seems to have been accepted.
The checks they did are also in the report.

Baby listening isn't yet illegal in Europe, though I agree it should be. But believing it should be doesn't make it so.

I would also like to hear Mrs Fenn and the McCanns speak for themselves.
 
It's very simple actually....

The McCanns admitted that they left their children alone in an unlocked apartment, on a number of occasions, even after the children expressed their distress at this behavior.

This neglect was reckless, dangerous, selfish and ILLEGAL. It resulted in the vanishing of a defenseless 3 year old girl.

They should be on trial for this neglect and, IMO, they should be sitting in a Portuguese prison.

This is the crux of the matter and no matter what else I suspect may have happened, this alone PROVES that JUSTICE has not been served and the McCanns are getting away with criminal conduct.

FULL STOP.

Do you know what the law says in Portugal about leaving your children unattended for short durations? Not the law that has sprung up from this, but the law that was in effect at the time.
 
Do you know what the law says in Portugal about leaving your children unattended for short durations? Not the law that has sprung up from this, but the law that was in effect at the time.

Here you are Seeker:

As posted by albym on 3A

Artigo 138.º Exposição ou abandono

1 — Quem colocar em perigo a vida de outra pessoa:

a) Expondo-a em lugar que a sujeite a uma situação de que ela, só por si, não possa defender -se; ou

b) Abandonando-a sem defesa, sempre que ao agente coubesse o dever de a guardar, vigiar ou assistir; é punido com pena de prisão de um a cinco anos.

2 — Se o facto for praticado por ascendente ou descendente, adoptante ou adoptado da vítima, o agente é punido com pena de prisão de dois a cinco anos.

3 — Se do facto resultar:

a) Ofensa à integridade física grave, o agente é punido com pena de prisão de dois a oito anos;

b) A morte, o agente é punido com pena de prisão de três a dez anos.

<><><>

Sec.1: Whomsoever endangers the life of another person, either:

a) by placing that other person in a situation in which they cannot defend themselves due to being so placed; OR

b) by abandoning the other person in such a manner that they (i.e. those doing the abandoning) fail in their legal duty to guard, watch or aid the abandoned person;

will be punished with a term of imprisonment between 1 and 5 years.


Sec.2: If either (or both) of the above acts was done by someone holding legal guardianship of the victim then the penalty will be a term of imprisonment between 2 and 5 years.


Section 3 of Article 138 elaborates upon further possible consequences of the endangerment - i.e. grievous bodily harm or death - with corresponding penalties of prison terms between 2 and 8 years, and between 3 and 10 years, respectively.
 
april4sky wrote: "I would also like to hear Mrs Fenn and the McCanns speak for themselves".

REPLY: Well, Mrs Fenn has no press agent or public relations manager; the McCanns, by contrast, have had Clarence Mitchell on £75,000 a year plus expenses, so they've been able to pay others to speak for them. Not a luxury available to many suspects, but then it helps if you know people and you can have 9 chats on your mobile 'phone to the future Prime Minister of Britain within 3 weeks of your daughter going missing.

Well, yes, april4sky, let the McCanns speak for themselves. And let them answer all the challenging questions that should flow from true investigative journalists - those which they've not been able to answer yet because they've put up an enormous shield against incoming questions saying: "We can't answer that, we're arguidos and committed to silence'.

"Where have all the brave journalists gone?
Long time passing...
Where have all the brave journalists go-o-one?
Long time ago...
Where..."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
The Portuguese just didn't enforce their own law about child neglect. Why? Probably because they are trying to protect tourism.

If resorts for foreign tourists are going to use this archaic "baby listening" service, which I think is bizarre and nearly useless, then they can't arrest parents who are neglectful.

That doesn't mean there wasn't any neglect - it just means the McCanns got off without charges. Again, I don't see them as innocent.
 
What is albym?

Is that a legal website?

TIA

No, albym is a poster from 3A's (a forum) and they provided the translation of this section of the Portuguese Penal Code (Código Penal Português).

The Code can be found here:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontes_do_Direito_penal

The actual file comes down as a PDF dated 13 December 2004:
http://www.unifr.ch/ddp1/derechopenal/legislacion/pt/CPPortugal.pdf

Which albym affirmed this with the CP copy from http://www.gnr.pt/portal/internet/legislacao/Legislacao.asp
which incorporated changes up to Lei 59/2007, de 4 de Setembro.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036698/McCanns-fury--despair--Portuguese-police-finally-cleared.html


There had been widespread speculation that the couple might have faced child neglect charges over their decision to leave their three youngsters alone in their rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, while they had dinner with friends at a tapas bar nearby.
The attorney general said: 'The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been archived as no evidence was discovered of any crime committed by the arguidos.
'Hereby the condition of arguido of Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat, Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy ceases, and the bail measures imposed upon them have expired.'
******
No evidence of any crime!!!
This would include baby listening as it isn't yet illegal in Europe!
And believing it should be doesn't make it so.

take a look at what you just posted and look for the big hole in it.


"Mr Monteiro was careful to highlight the fact that the McCanns and fellow arguido Robert Murat were no longer under suspicion of any crime."

ER no what he did say was

'The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been archived as no evidence was discovered of any crime committed by the arguidos"

agian all this tells us if they could not get the evidence to show they or did not do it.
 
Why would it matter hearing Mrs. Fenn talk in person, or the McCanns? They have presumably both told the PLE everything they need to know and everything is revealed in the report.

What is there left for Mrs. Fenn to add? She heard Madeleine crying, it was for an hour fifteen minutes, she heard the parents returning. (front door opening, presumably crying stopped by implication, but certainly parents returned.)

The McCanns stated that they were checking on the children every thirty minutes as part of the daily routine. (I believe they also stated sometimes more frequently, but that might have just been implied in an interview or separately, so let's stick with the 30 minute sure comment.

What's left to hear? Truly, I don't understand what either one of them could add that they wouldn't have already told the police.
 
Why would it matter hearing Mrs. Fenn talk in person, or the McCanns? They have presumably both told the PLE everything they need to know and everything is revealed in the report.

What is there left for Mrs. Fenn to add? She heard Madeleine crying, it was for an hour fifteen minutes, she heard the parents returning. (front door opening, presumably crying stopped by implication, but certainly parents returned.)

The McCanns stated that they were checking on the children every thirty minutes as part of the daily routine. (I believe they also stated sometimes more frequently, but that might have just been implied in an interview or separately, so let's stick with the 30 minute sure comment.

What's left to hear? Truly, I don't understand what either one of them could add that they wouldn't have already told the police.
I would like to hear from them because the report was written by the PJ.
I don't trust the PJ. :rolleyes: A report thats been leaked by the way!!
And this is why!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...volvement.html

The admission came in the final report by Portuguese police.

The report also said the investigation was hampered by intense media scrutiny.
"This investigation was carried out under conditions of exceptional media scrutiny with the publication of immense numbers of 'reports' of imprecise, inexact or even false content, which did not help, at all, the discovery of the truth and created, on several occasions, a climate of useless commotion and lack of serenity."
***
No surprise that it is slanted to make them sound good....Reading it anyone would think the leaks, smears and lies had nothing to do with them and they had behaved in a professional manner at all times. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
 
I would like to hear from them because the report was written by the PJ.
I don't trust the PJ. :rolleyes: A report thats been leaked by the way!!
And this is why!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...volvement.html

The admission came in the final report by Portuguese police.

The report also said the investigation was hampered by intense media scrutiny.
"This investigation was carried out under conditions of exceptional media scrutiny with the publication of immense numbers of 'reports' of imprecise, inexact or even false content, which did not help, at all, the discovery of the truth and created, on several occasions, a climate of useless commotion and lack of serenity."
***
No surprise that it is slanted to make them sound good....Reading it anyone would think the leaks, smears and lies had nothing to do with them and they had behaved in a professional manner at all times. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

But the PJ lifted the arguido status on the McCanns.

If they were truly that determined to create evidence and go after the McCanns, why not just go all the way? Why did they stop, why did they quit now?

I seriously doubt Mrs. Fenn would allow her words to be publicly presented as this, laying herself open to the long and libelous arm of Clarence Mitchell, if that's not what she said.

We can confirm that's what the McCanns said because they repeated that themselves, in various interviews .they were doing "their own form of babywatching" etc.
 
all this tells us if they could not get the evidence to show they or did not do it.
I believe I read it correct. :)
The PJ could find no evidence of a crime period!!
Which is why they have now cleared them.
And why they had no reason/evidence to have made them arguidos!!
 
But the PJ lifted the arguido status on the McCanns.

If they were truly that determined to create evidence and go after the McCanns, why not just go all the way? Why did they stop, why did they quit now?

I seriously doubt Mrs. Fenn would allow her words to be publicly presented as this, laying herself open to the long and libelous arm of Clarence Mitchell, if that's not what she said.

We can confirm that's what the McCanns said because they repeated that themselves, in various interviews .they were doing "their own form of babywatching" etc.
Texana there is a big difference in the leaks and smears that we know the PJ has done consistantly.
And them actually being prepared to create evidence and put that before a court....wow!! I don't think they would go that far. Particularly with the world watching!!
Though there is a previous case I'm not sure about.:waitasec: Which happens to be the case that Goncalo Amaral and other police have now been charged.

I think they made lots of mistakes in this case, particularly early on. They will never admit that.
I think the leaks were/are done to protect themselves and keep the focus away from their incompetance.
And the reason the report has now been leaked. :rolleyes:
 
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