BREAKING: UPS cargo plane, a McDonnell Douglas MD-11, crashes near Louisville International Airport in Kentucky

[PrairieWind]

Question : What if it was faulty maintenance, because for the engine to detach it seems like a catastrophic failure somewhere ?
Even if there were experienced people working on the engine before it took off (we haven't heard yet if there was any maintenance before so theorizing here); what if there was a newer employee and they made a mistake.
Again there's also a question of a faulty part that may have caused the separation.

Hope the families can get all of the answers they need, they deserve to know the truth and hopefully this won't happen again.


Did they find out what caused the crash of United flight 191 ?
Imo.

In UA 191 it was discovered that a maintenance procedure to remove an engine and replace it as stated by the manufacturer, was altered by United maintenance to make it faster. An untimely shift change led to a situation where the engine was not fully supported in maintenance operation and the bolts/struts holding it to the wing were stressed/damaged without anyone realizing. When the plane took off from O'Hare, the bolts holding the engine finally gave way and the engine detached. Ironically, just the loss of the engine would have been survivable as the DC-10 can take off with only 2 of its 3 engines. But when the engine detached, it tore through hydraulic lines that caused flaps to retract on the left wing, resulting in loss of lift. There was no way for the pilots to save the plane at that point and it rolled and crashed.

We will see what this cause was. I am confident the NTSB will put it all together. Unlike UA 191, this plane left wing is completely in flame before lift off. I think something else happened here. Maybe more like the Concord crash where debris on the runway flew up and punctured the fuel tank.

 

[Love Never Fails]

WLKY.com Louisville

12 dead, including a child.
15 hurt
16 still missing.
It just get worse.

 

[Charlot123]

I travel for work, and fly into many different airports. Many major airports are surrounded closely by housing additions, some are so close that I don't know how the residents can stand the noise.

Here is your answer: higher rate of strokes and heart attacks; it is known.

Cardiovascular effects of environmental noise exposure - PMC

The role of noise as an environmental pollutant and its impact on health are being increasingly recognized. Beyond its effects on the auditory system, noise causes annoyance and disturbs sleep, and it impairs cognitive performance. Furthermore, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Love Never Fails]

This happened 5 miles from my house and across the street from my husband’s workplace.

I am so sorry!

 

[meanmaryjean]

Do we know which company manufactured the engines that were on this plane? Apologies if this was mentioned in one of the linked articles - those of us in Europe can't always access US media sources.

Pratt and Whitney

 

[airportwoman]

My daughter is an FAA-licensed Airframe and Powerplant mechanic/ inspector. UPS is known for its meticulous maintenance. They have an outstanding crew. HOWEVER, the age of this plane is concerning, and all it takes is a faulty (the fault invisible to the naked eye) bolt or screw to bring an aircraft down.

I remember the 1989 plane crash in Sioux City, Iowa (and lived there briefly a few years later). It was a metal flaw the size of a grain of sand that caused the failure of a crucial part, and while most people got out alive, some didn't.

Looking at various maps, the debris field covered several large parking lots, and I'm guessing that the non-UPS fatalities, including a known child would have been there, considering the time of day.

 

[airportwoman]

This happened 5 miles from my house and across the street from my husband’s workplace.

I'm assuming your husband is OK?

I heard a pilot say last night on YouTube that this plane would have had 3 times the fuel of any of the planes that crashed on 9/11. I also remember the alerts put out for people to shelter in place for a 5-mile perimeter at first, later reduced to 1 mile.

 

[airportwoman]

Here is your answer: higher rate of strokes and heart attacks; it is known.

Cardiovascular effects of environmental noise exposure - PMC

The role of noise as an environmental pollutant and its impact on health are being increasingly recognized. Beyond its effects on the auditory system, noise causes annoyance and disturbs sleep, and it impairs cognitive performance. Furthermore, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I grew up a half mile from a major airport, and had classmates who lived in the flight path. Many people in those neighborhoods, where real estate was quite inexpensive, had hearing loss.

BTW, my username is a nod to the R.E.M. song "Airportman." It has nothing to do with aviation.

 

[tarabull]

From 2013...fwiw

Crash investigators trace UPS plane fire to batteries

Investigators recommend better firefighting, to allow pilots more time to land.

www.usatoday.com

 

[airportwoman]

Because all the carriers scratch each others' backs, the United States Postal Service has issued this statement.

Service alerts - Newsroom - About.usps.com

USPS Service Alerts provide information to consumers, small businesses and business mailers about postal facility service disruptions due to weather-related and other natural disasters or events.

about.usps.com

 

[GraceG]

In UA 191 it was discovered that a maintenance procedure to remove an engine and replace it as stated by the manufacturer, was altered by United maintenance to make it faster. An untimely shift change led to a situation where the engine was not fully supported in maintenance operation and the bolts/struts holding it to the wing were stressed/damaged without anyone realizing. When the plane took off from O'Hare, the bolts holding the engine finally gave way and the engine detached. Ironically, just the loss of the engine would have been survivable as the DC-10 can take off with only 2 of its 3 engines. But when the engine detached, it tore through hydraulic lines that caused flaps to retract on the left wing, resulting in loss of lift. There was no way for the pilots to save the plane at that point and it rolled and crashed.

We will see what this cause was. I am confident the NTSB will put it all together. Unlike UA 191, this plane left wing is completely in flame before lift off. I think something else happened here. Maybe more like the Concord crash where debris on the runway flew up and punctured the fuel tank.

There are photos of the nacelle and the what looks to be the engine core lying on the infield which means the No. 1 (Left) engine completely separated (mounts, pylon, and all) during the takeoff roll. The shear line where the pylon tore away would have been visible. That, in and of itself, would have dumped a large amount of fuel out of the wing root in addition to hydrauilc fluid, hense the fireball. Given how far down the runway they were when they rotated frorm the video, they would have been beyond V1. I had an engine fail right at V1 and you do what you are trained, you hit VR and rotate because you do NOT have the runway left to stop (in my case, there was a an embankment past the overrun, in this case there were warehouses). The crew did what they were trained for and honestly the only surviveable thing they could have done (probablby not realizing the engine had literally departed the fix). That was to rotate and get it off the ground, to avoid an overun into occupied structures. That's incredible courage right there. So they made the only survivable call which was to rotate, rather than to abort and overrun. This morning, I was very glad I was retired, I've worked too many plane crashes in my career and they take their toll on everyone. My heart goes out to the first responders, the accident teams (FAA and NTSB who do separate but parallel investigations) who are working with reduced staff with the govt shutdown, as well as the families of the victims. I'm not typed on the MD11, but flying one that size, with full fuel and having that happen is unimaginable. Given I may provide some technical support (including legal) to industry now that I'm retired I will not make any further comments, but this is just my opinion based on what I saw today on msm.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

That might be hard due to the age of the plane and the real possibility of the engines being changed out over time.It looks like initial customers could pick between three different engines made by three different manufacturers (2 US, 1 UK).

Avionics and software upgrades to the plane in the following decades might have led to additional engine choices for consideration. Fuel efficiency gains from modern engine designs are always a top priority for companies.

Thanks - that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Charlot123]

I remember the 1989 plane crash in Sioux City, Iowa (and lived there briefly a few years later). It was a metal flaw the size of a grain of sand that caused the failure of a crucial part, and while most people got out alive, some didn't.

Looking at various maps, the debris field covered several large parking lots, and I'm guessing that the non-UPS fatalities, including a known child would have been there, considering the time of day.

(Oh yes, the impossible landing, UA 232. Al Haynes, the captain, died in 2019 in Seattle. Of the crew, only the FO is still alive.) Metal fatigue. Before that case, I thought that titanium was the perfect metal.

Yes, the debris was scattered all over. The fan disk and most of the fans were found in the cornfield much later. In the UPS cargo crash, I expect wider area of debris.

Well, they just recovered the black boxes.

Investigators find 'black boxes' from UPS plane crash that killed at least 12

U.S. federal safety investigators have located the "black box" recorders from the wreckage of a UPS cargo plane that crashed in flames on takeoff from the airport at Louisville, Kentucky, killing at least 12 people, officials said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[IceIce9]

The UPS cargo jet that crashed and exploded Tuesday in Louisville, Ky., spent much of September and October in San Antonio for maintenance.

https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/ups-louisville-st-engineering-san-antonio-crash-21139968.php

 

[Chimera]

An older plane that maybe should have been 'retired'-- or however your say it-- put out of service, a long time ago ?
Speculating here.

Whatever the cause they'll hopefully be able to determine it thoroughly.
And, afaik, not all of the missing/deceased have been accounted for yet ?

Looking back at the video clips of the blast, it is somewhat reminiscent of the combat footage of napalm laid down in the Vietnam war ?
So not impossible to think that some poor souls' remains may never be recovered ?
This has happened in other disasters where there was nothing left to find.

The grieving families may also be angry as well --if this was preventable in any way, and tbh I can't blame them.
Imo.

 

[Gemmie]

The UPS cargo jet that crashed and exploded Tuesday in Louisville, Ky., spent much of September and October in San Antonio for maintenance.

https://www.expressnews.com/business/article/ups-louisville-st-engineering-san-antonio-crash-21139968.php

What did they do? Forget to tighten the bolts that held the engine in place? Being sarcastic but I'm really curious how an engine can just fall off.

LOVE that WS has a VI such as @GraceG! What I'd love to know, if you're allowed to speak about this... is how an engine can just fall off. What I'm curious about is it all about the engine/housing or could other things create a series of events that would cause something like this? I don't need specifics. Is this more common than I know? (This is the first time I've heard of an engine falling off a plane). TIA

 

[Chimera]

Black box recovered from UPS plane that crashed as 12 people dead

Federal investigators have recovered the so-called black box from the wreckage of a UPS cargo plane that crashed in a fiery blaze on Tuesday , as the death toll from the tragedy climbed to 12.

www.dailymail.co.uk

As of Wednesday evening, the death toll from the tragedy rose to 12 'with several individuals still unaccounted for,' Beshear shared on social media, adding that it is believed at least one child is among the dead.
Meanwhile, Okolona Fire Department Chief Mike Little said his firefighters expect to remain at the scene for at least the next week looking for victims in the large debris field.

He noted that there is not much left of the plane to scrounge for.

'For the fuselage, we've not seen much of it, to tell you the truth,' Little told reporters on Wednesday, according to WDRB.

'With the intense fire that was out there, most things are gone, including vehicles, semis and the plane.'

A fire strong enough to burn up a semi/tractor trailer.
The before and after photos look like a missile hit that area.

God bless the firefighters and EMT's searching there and keep them safe.
They might have to bring in forensic archaeologists to study remains and determine the ID's of people ?
I think it's possible that some fires are still burning ?
Omo.

 

[arielilane]

I travel for work, and fly into many different airports. Many major airports are surrounded closely by housing additions, some are so close that I don't know how the residents can stand the noise.

@IceIce9, thank you for your service. Much peace to you for all you do.

Additionally, realtors are required to disclose if a property is located in an area affected by aircraft noise, especially if it falls within designated noise-impacted zones. It is mandated by local laws.

However, for those residents living in homes prior to this fairly new law its got to be insane noise for them. jmo

 

[arielilane]

Horrific tragic event.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985929623104794932

 

[sunspun]

Horrific tragic event.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1985929623104794932

Wow. He had a front row seat. The perfect view... to a thing you hope to never see. Was he in traffic or parked doing some work or... ?