Brianna Denison 19yo Reno NV #5

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  • #481
I'm confused, and maybe I missed something. How do we know that the killer had about an hour to abduct, subdue, rape, and kill her? Thanks in advance, Dad:).

Lion

Well, another assumption, based on the estimated time of the abduction (after 4:30 I think based on her last text message) to usual ( at least in TN) morning traffic at 6:00. I would think he would want to be away from the body by 5:30 to 5:45.

What are your thoughts on the timing?
 
  • #482
That has me puzzled also. It would seem to take longer than a few months to progress that much.

That is why I still think the killing was accidental. However, it is quite a jump from the Nov attack to entering an apartment to abduct Brianna.

Excuse me while I argue with myself.

The more I think about the UW, the more I think he went back and put them there. My reason for thinking that is that LE has not caught him yet and he's having fun with that. And the UW is in too good of shape. Before Brianna, there really wasn't a reason to taunt LE. Now they have all this info on him and can't find him. That all happened after Brianna died.
 
  • #483
I think that the panties are from another victim, perhaps, one that has yet to come forward. This rapist/murderer is sicker than I had at first envisioned. He is playing a game and does not think that he will be caught -- or -- is begging to be caught -- or -- is enjoying the media attention.

I wonder where the teddy bear is. Isn't it a large teddy bear? If so, he can't easily hide it unless he lives alone. My bet is that he gave it to his child. Why haven't the police shown a replica or the actual teddy bear on television? I wonder if there is a photo of Brianna with the teddy bear that they could air. I can tell you that I would be highly suspicious if my partner shaves his private area, drives a truck and has just given a teddy bear to my child.

i know if i wanted to hide a 2 ft teddy bear in my home, i could do it, & no one would find it.....it's not like hubby digs around in the closets for stuff...(he usually asks ME to find things for him)......also, it's possible it could be hidden in a toolbox in this guys truck....one of those big ones, maybe in the back of the truck?....lots of places he could hide his "trophies"....a locker where he works, etc.......

it is odd that we haven't seen a drawing of this bear though, now that i think about it.......is it possible the bear was at the dump site along with these underpants, but LE is keeping this quiet for now????....would there be a reason to keep it quiet??
 
  • #484
I am thinking that three things are significant in this and the other rapes/attempted rapes by this perp orthe police wouldn't have mentioned them.

1. I know we've discussed shaved pubic region as being normal in a certain age group of men. But if that was normal for a rapist I don't think the RPD would have mentioned it. It could be that most rapist in that region of the country, or any region for that matter, don't shave the nether region. I just say this because I don't recall ever reading LE say this specific thing about a perp.

2. The perp had condoms with him, they retrieved them from the site of one of the other attacks with his DNA. So that either means he uses them in his rapes and was ready to use them in that rape, or he normally uses them. This factor combined with the one above leads me to believe they hardly ever find condoms used or unused at the site of an attack/rape. Again condoms aren't that unusal for men to use, but in a rape I don't see the purpose other then to protect himself from disease. I am sure he knows that DNA is transferred by other means. See number three below.

3. Leaving an article of clothing from another women, unwashed, with both his and her DNA on it. Shows he knows about DNA and that has nothing to do with the condoms. I think he purposely placed them there to let LE know there are other vics and /or I am not ready to stop yet. There is more to come.

I still think this guy man be overly concerned with his hygiene. When Chester Stiles friend Elaine spoke of him she mentioned that he was always washing his hands and when he washed his clothes it was over and over. Just makes we wonder if this man is not prone to some ritualistic behavior with his cleaniness. These guys all seem to have their little kirks and I wonder if this isn't his.
 
  • #485
>
I'm of the same opinion, but the UW is shootin' holes all over the place.

The killing and UW drop being accidental makes more sense from a historical tracking of the attacks. But could this guy be so clumsy?

It makes for a more intriguing scenario to think it was all planned but I am just not convienced.

I do not want to dismiss anyone who thinks otherwise. Your insight and comment are very helpful and just as likely to be correct.
 
  • #486
I am thinking that three things are significant in this and the other rapes/attempted rapes by this perp orthe police wouldn't have mentioned them.

1. I know we've discussed shaved pubic region as being normal in a certain age group of men. But if that was normal for a rapist I don't think the RPD would have mentioned it. It could be that most rapist in that region of the country, or any region for that matter, don't shave the nether region. I just say this because I don't recall ever reading LE say this specific thing about a perp.

2. The perp had condoms with him, they retrieved them from the site of one of the other attacks with his DNA. So that either means he uses them in his rapes and was ready to use them in that rape, or he normally uses them. This factor combined with the one above leads me to believe they hardly ever find condoms used or unused at the site of an attack/rape. Again condoms aren't that unusal for men to use, but in a rape I don't see the purpose other then to protect himself from disease. I am sure he knows that DNA is transferred by other means. See number three below.

3. Leaving an article of clothing from another women, unwashed, with both his and her DNA on it. Shows he knows about DNA and that has nothing to do with the condoms. I think he purposely placed them there to let LE know there are other vics and /or I am not ready to stop yet. There is more to come.

I still think this guy man be overly concerned with his hygiene. When Chester Stiles friend Elaine spoke of him she mentioned that he was always washing his hands and when he washed his clothes it was over and over. Just makes we wonder if this man is not prone to some ritualistic behavior with his cleaniness. These guys all seem to have their little kirks and I wonder if this isn't his.
Good point Delta - I wonder if Bri's body was washed before it was placed, too?

On a side note, I have been reading stuff about geographic profiling on crime library (http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/geographic/3.html). Some things that caught my interest:
- In reference to the bold and grissly scene of the Black Dahlia body in 1947 - "Someone also noted that she had been left in the one place in Los Angeles that appeared on a map in the shape of female genitalia. That would affirm that this was an organized killing by a sadistic misogynist."
- A persistent problem in many criminal investigations is "linkage blindness." That is, investigators fail to recognize when certain crimes have important links to other crimes because they're focusing too much on dissimilarities. For example, in the Zodiac crimes, the cab driver was not immediately linked in the series because previous attacks had been aimed at couples. In other words, investigators had developed a tentative psychological map that did not account for the Zodiac's apparent reasoning.
- Right-handed criminals who are trying to escape in a hurry will flee to the left, and will discard weapons to the right. When lost, males go downhill while females go up.
- Another significant factor in geographical profiling is the concept of a mental map. This is a cognitive image of one's surroundings that is developed through experiences, travel routes, reference points, and centers of activity. The places where we feel safe and take for granted are within our mental maps, and the same holds for offenders. As they grow bolder, their maps can change and they may then increase their range of criminal activity.
- The mental map may also be dependent on whether the killer is a hunter, stalker, or has some other mode of attack, since the type of approach used on a victim also has a relationship to the location of the killer's home base.
 
  • #487
i know if i wanted to hide a 2 ft teddy bear in my home, i could do it, & no one would find it.....it's not like hubby digs around in the closets for stuff...(he usually asks ME to find things for him)......also, it's possible it could be hidden in a toolbox in this guys truck....one of those big ones, maybe in the back of the truck?....lots of places he could hide his "trophies"....a locker where he works, etc.......

it is odd that we haven't seen a drawing of this bear though, now that i think about it.......is it possible the bear was at the dump site along with these underpants, but LE is keeping this quiet for now????....would there be a reason to keep it quiet??

I would think that teddy bear would burn pretty quickly.
 
  • #488
  • #489
I think the timing is up in the air, except that I think she may have been killed shortly after being abducted. It is possible that she was dead by the time he got her into his truck. But, if she wasn't chances may be greatest that he killed her within 3 hours of abducting her. I recall reading and hearing this years ago in SAR training. Time is of the essence in finding an abducted victim. I believe that statistics show that 90% of victims of serial killers are dead within 24 hours. I cannot find links for this as it just based on what I learned long ago. In any event the slime was so bold and a risk taker that I doubt he would have planned based on traffic or on anyone else's plans except for his own twisted needs and desires.

Lion
 
  • #490
That has me puzzled also. It would seem to take longer than a few months to progress that much.

That is why I still think the killing was accidental. However, it is quite a jump from the Nov attack to entering an apartment to abduct Brianna.

Excuse me while I argue with myself.

lol, same here......one minute i think maybe it's as simple as he's just gotten more brave, by the day.....or maybe he wanted to be "known", but the rapes didn't get him much attention, so he went further......

he for sure got braver to walk into an apartment, but then again, like i mentioned once before...it's possible he'd been watching that house....it was a party house, so to speak....wouldn't be hard to figure that out, if a lot of folks were going in & out of it all the time, at all hours.....this guy does this in the wee hours of the early morning from everything i've read....
betw 2 am & 5'ish am......i think he knew he could get into the apartment without any problems, where Brianna was, instead of stalking/waiting for a female to be walking out late at night......maybe he did get braver, & simply went a step further, since it appeared so easy with getting into that home...

i'm just not sure if he intentionally killed Brianna or not, but maybe the thrill with simply raping, just wasn't cuttin it anymore?
 
  • #491
I would think that teddy bear would burn pretty quickly.

yes, i think it would also....would be the way to get rid of it, for sure, if he didn't want to keep it as a "trophy".....
 
  • #492
Convicted sex offenders can live on college campuses in Nevada?? Scary!!

Last I checked, convicted sex offenders can live where ever they want, with the exception of living near schools and parks (if they're pedophiles/predators).

For all you know this convicted sex offender could have a charge against him for urinating in public or dating a 16 year old when he was 18... :rolleyes:
 
  • #493
  • #494
I want to know what turned this guy from a bumbling attacker (he ran away when the November vic screamed) to a calculated killer. Any theories? I know we've been saying a birth of a child or a divorce may have sent him over the age, but in such short a time?
I have read about other murderers who started just like this guy. First, he fantasized about abduction and rape. He actually had trial runs first, just picking up hitchhiking women and letting them go. Then, he graduated to abducting and raping. Then, abducting, raping and murder. To actually pull it off takes practice. I guess that the circumstances were exactly right that allowed this guy to make the leap from attempted kidnapping to kidnapping and sexual assault to kidnapping, assault and murder.

IMO, if his previous victim had been at the home where he went on 1/19, I believe that she would have been his victim, not Brianna. Who knows? Maybe, her not being there enraged him enough to rape and murder his next victim. In that way, she (Brianna) could never leave him again.
 
  • #495
:laugh:
...Excuse me while I argue with myself.
Hehe. I often feel as if my posts are rhetorical as no one ever responds to them...Sometimes, other posters come up with the same "original" thought that I had as if I hadn't posted it days earlier...and others applaud them for their great ideas! :waitasec:

Oh, well...it happens to the best of us, 10EC Dad! Welcome to WS!! :)
 
  • #496
Something that has bothered me since I read it yesterday is the following brief excerpt from the RGJ:

“This case is shocking to us, but to 99.9 percent of the people who live in this community, they have no comprehension and cannot even fathom that someone had done what this guy did,” McDonald said. “He’s a deviant not working on the same moral plane as the rest of us. Something is wrong with this person.”

That quote is from one of the detectives working on the case. What I read into that quote is that there's something more about this case - something different than a rape/murder. Police have been quiet about evidence found at the scene and the condition of Brianna's body. Only today did they release the information and picture of the underwear found at the scene.

There's something about this suspect that's particularly heinous.

Link to article where that quote is from:
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080218/NEWS01/80218030/0/NEWS18&theme=DENISON


I have a feeling that he possibly killed Brianna (maybe accidentally in an effort to render her unconscious) before getting around to raping her and possibly/probably raped her after she died (necrophilia). :furious:
 
  • #497
I think the timing is up in the air, except that I think she may have been killed shortly after being abducted. It is possible that she was dead by the time he got her into his truck. But, if she wasn't chances may be greatest that he killed her within 3 hours of abducting her. I recall reading and hearing this years ago in SAR training. Time is of the essence in finding an abducted victim. I believe that statistics show that 90% of victims of serial killers are dead within 24 hours. I cannot find links for this as it just based on what I learned long ago. In any event the slime was so bold and a risk taker that I doubt he would have planned based on traffic or on anyone else's plans except for his own twisted needs and desires.

Lion

I have to respectfully disagree with that last statement. He may want to get caught but only through a cat-and-mouse game. (I am not assuming that he wants to get caught.). Otherwise, he would have left her body in a more prominent place out in the open.

I also think she was dead within 3 hours af her abduction. If she were alive 3 hours after her abduction, which would make it 7:30, he would have to hide her for at least 20 hours (midnight) before killing her and dumping the body.
 
  • #498
You know, I did not read anything into their statement other than the crimes of rape and murder. But I do think there is alot we don't know about.

It is interesting that they asked for the owner of the thong to come forward. That would indicate they have no reason to believe that she (thong owner) is dead.

Maybe the thong owner is his previous victim that he dropped off at home? The one that's now out of the country?
 
  • #499
I have read about other murderers who started just like this guy. First, he fantasized about abduction and rape. He actually had trial runs first, just picking up hitchhikinig women and letting them go. Then, he graduated to abducting and raping. Then, abducting, raping and murder. To actually pull it off takes practice. I guess that the circumstances were exactly right that allowed this guy to make the leap from attempted kidnapping to kidnapping and sexual assault to kidnapping, assault and murder.

IMO, if his previous victim had been at the home where he went on 1/19, I believe that she would have been his victim, not Brianna. Who knows? Maybe, her not being there enraged him enough to rape and murder his next victim. In that way, she (Brianna) could never leave him again.

I agree that the previous victim was the target. You have a good arguement as to why he may have killed Brianna.
 
  • #500
Well, another assumption, based on the estimated time of the abduction (after 4:30 I think based on her last text message) to usual ( at least in TN) morning traffic at 6:00. I would think he would want to be away from the body by 5:30 to 5:45.
What are your thoughts on the timing?

hmmmm, good point there ....... do you think he actually dumped her body there, immediately after??....i'm starting to think he didn't.....

i know it's been posted, but how far, as in miles, is the dump site from where she was abducted?
 
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