British couple, Andrew and Dawn Searle, found deceased in Les Pesquiès, south of Villefranche-de-Rouergue 6th February 2025

[heartandsoul]

IMO

To shift the blame on the husband
is too easy.
"Ladies & Gentlemen, nothing to see here,
deranged man killed his wife and hanged himself.
He had financial problems, you know, it happens, had emotional breakdown, murder suicide happen a lot, etc etc"

Really?

What about positive opinions of neighbours?
Describing the couple as loving?
Over decade of living together as a pair?
Would a woman marry him recently (2023) if he was treating her badly during all these years while living together?

Did he have MH problems?
Were there worrying signs earlier?
Surely a wife would notice them.

Because, really,
what normal person decides to commit murder suicide?

OK, there seemed to be problems, financial problems.
But who hasn't got them?
A person usually negotiates with banks, downsizes, sometimes declares bankruptcy.
So what?
Life goes on.
One has to roll up one's sleeves, clench one's teeth and start solving problems.
There is always a solution.

Something else was happening there IMO.
I hope Police will really try to get to the bottom of this.

The man cannot defend himself any more.

JMO

It's not "too easy" for me, it's where occam's razor is leading me at this time. And there is absolutely something to see and discuss if it was murder/suicide.

We don't know any of that information. It wouldn't be the first time neighbours, friends and even family are shocked and had no idea this could ever happen. People often hide the things they are most ashamed of (financial/health/relationship worries are probably the main three).

"Normal" people, aka people who are thinking rationally and not under extreme stress, don't typically commit murder/suicide, you're absolutely right.

"There's always a solution" isn't something people who are not thinking rationally tend to think. I wish those I know, loved and lost to suicide had realised that. They didn't. It happens.

You're applying logic to someone who may not have had the ability to use logic at that time.

I will agree that the man is not here to defend himself, so out of respect for that, I am only responding to the very few facts that we know. I am not speculating idly and am very open to considering other possibilities. I just don't subscribe to any currently.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I do read French (and am in France) but the popups are impossible! This is from Midi Libre, not much more info: After five days of intensive investigation and multiple investigative acts, the tragedy of the hamlet of Pesquiès remains a mystery. On Tuesday, February 11, the public prosecutor of Rodez published in a press release the results of the autopsy of this British couple in their sixties, Dawn Kerr and Andrew Searle, found dead in their beautiful villa in Villefranche-sur-Rouergue on February 6 by a walker.

Couple britannique tué en Aveyron : pas de violences sexuelles, un objet tranchant, ce que révèle l'autopsie de Dawn et Andrew

L’enquête va se poursuivre pour comprendre le déroulement du drame survenu dans leur belle propriété de Villefranche-sur-Rouergue le 6 février dernier.

www.midilibre.fr

Thank you catgreen - I found the pop-ups impossible and I don't speak much French

 

[VioletLilac]

"One of the last people to see Dawn Searle alive
says she was 'smiley and positive'
– hours before being bludgeoned to death.

A local who works at a nearby fireplace shop said Dawn
visited to book chimney sweep appointments for herself and villagers
around 18 hours before the couple met their 'violent deaths'.

She told how Dawn, a project manager,
was in good spirits
despite feeling unwell with the flu, adding:
'Her mood was very good, [and she was] smiley'.

The shopkeeper, who knew the couple well,
said Dawn, 56, and Andrew, 62,
were a 'very generous and united couple'
who gave up their Sundays
to teach their French neighbours to speak English free of charge.

A mechanic who regularly serviced Dawn's white Dacia Duster SUV said
he enjoyed bantering with Andrew
about England playing rugby against France.

Another local businessman described the pair as the 'perfect couple'
who were always involved
in social events held in the community."

View attachment 564138

Dawn and Andrew will be remembered in this community
as positive, sociable, generous people.
As good neighbours.

Mum's chilling last gesture sparks major clue in barbaric 'murder mystery'

Dawn Searle and her husband Andrew were found dead in their rural home in Les Pesquies, France, with a major investigation launched as police say they haven't ruled out foul play

www.mirror.co.uk

They sound lovely and really friendly.

 

[VioletLilac]

I think that everything about this is a mess.

Unlike a planned, methodical killing like, say, List's annihilation of his family, this is incredibly disorganised.

I think it's possible that finances were a trigger. Maybe she thought things were fine, and he knew that they were absolutely ruined, financially. Maybe she found out, and his reaction was to retaliate. Maybe the jewellery and the disorder in the house was because he was looking for something to steal or to sell to try and keep their heads above the water for five more minutes, or maybe he did it after he'd killed her to stage the scene to try to make it seem like a third party was involved.

I think this was most likely at his hand, and I will never feel anything but fury for individuals, mostly men, who decide to kill their families rather than just themselves. It's the most selfish, narcissistic act.

Suicide, I can feel sympathy and empathy. Deciding that the world revolves around you and killing everyone to ensure they don't live beyond when you decide because you don't want them to exist without you will never be anything but repulsive.

MOO

Just looked up Skyler Wilson after reading what's at the bottom of your post. That's really sad. The manner of death is similar to baby Genevieve Meehan in the UK, except she was killed by a daycare worker. Awful.

 

[Officer Dibble]

The neighbor saw the husband agitated the day before (not sure if this is about the conversation with his father mentioned earlier):

“I saw them the day before they were found, they were walking the dogs and Andrew was on the phone,” the unidentified neighbor said, according to the outlet. “He was very agitated, and he was arguing in English, he just waved at me and then carried on.”

A friend of the Searles, Odile Marian, said the 62-year-old had been worried about finding his garage door opened in the days leading up to the couple’s deaths.

Husband and wife found dead at rural home hours after he was seen buying lotto ticket: ‘Clearly a homicide’

Andrew Searle, 62, and Dawn Searle, 56, were found dead at their home in the French village of Les Pesquiès on Thursday.

nypost.com

Is the garage door incident connected or made up? Didn't they normally lock their doors? The husband was reportedly found in a first floor bedroom. If the wife was wounded in the bedroom, there would likely be a trail of blood leading outside. Did the house appear ransacked? One of the articles mentions cash being found in the bedroom.

I wonder if the witness 'supposed' he was talking to his father - in other words how did the witness KNOW he was talking to his father? JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

Speak and read French here also. Chatvert's translation looks good to me

Very little if anything new here. Next paras read (summarized roughly and on the fly). JMO, the references to multiple blows from an object blunt and sharp have the sense of an object capable of producing both of those types of wounds, rather than 2 separate objects -- but that's just a guess.

Autopsies confirmed CoD: head wounds on the woman, and death by hanging for her husband.

According to the magistrate, the house seemed to have been superficially searched, suggesting a burglary gone wrong, or deadly (maybe targeted) attack, though this disarray might also suggest staging. Dawn Kerr was found partially naked in front of her house, with a jewellery box nearby. No weapon of the sort that might have caused her wounds has been found.

Investigations are continuing, with an eye to determining whether the tragedy is a domestic murder /suicide or an attack by some third party. Additional analyses (anatomopathological, tox) are ongoing and may shed light on the precise circumstances of this tragedy.

Thank you very much for translating this. So basically both options are open: 1) staged 2) targeted.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Key mobile phone clue found after ‘violent’ deaths of British couple in France

Andrew and Dawn Searle moved to France from Scotland around ten years ago - mystery surrounds the circumstances of their deaths

www.the-independent.com

Sounding more and more like a double murder. Will be very interested in what the French police detectives come up with.
It almost sounds like they murdered the wife and then the husband returned home and they held a gun/ guns to his head and they stuffed the gag in his mouth and hung him.
As to why there wasn’t a struggle for him- why no defensive wounds- they may have threatened his children or grandchildren- no telling.
Absolutely harkens back to Barry & Honey though - very bizarre circumstances.
Just speculation and all imho

I thought the shopkeeper said the wife was in the car though when he bought the lotto ticket etc? So maybe the husband didn't return home to find her already dead then as you suggested?

 

[Officer Dibble]

From French MSM:

"No lead has been favored,
even if two theories stand out in this macabre discovery
of the bodies of Dawn and Andrew Searle in Villefranche-de-Rouergue.

View attachment 564024

Femicide followed by suicide
or
double murder?

It is impossible to decide at this stage
for the Rodez prosecutor's office,
which indicated on Tuesday February 11
that it was not favoring any lead.

'Investigations are continuing,
in particular to determine whether the tragedy was the result of a domestic crime followed by suicide or whether it was the result of the intervention of a third party',

the public prosecutor's office said in a press release,
having opened an investigation
'in flagrante delicto on the charge of voluntary homicide'
following this macabre discovery in the commune of Villefranche-de-Rouergue."

Double meurtre ou féminicide ? Mystère autour de la mort de ces Britanniques en France

Aucune piste n’est privilégiée, même si deux théories s’imposent dans cette découverte macabre des corps de Dawn et Andrew Searle à Villefranche-de-Rouergue.

www.huffingtonpost.fr

Whatever it is, it's just so very, very sad.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I'm only managing to catch up on this thread every couple of days atm. Can someone in the know write a timeline listed post please on what we know so far ? Date, time of shop visit, date, time of garage door open etc etc ? I'd be really grateful. Thanks.

 

[VerityGumshoe]

I might have missed it, but we've heard of Dawn's state of undress, but nothing about what Andrew was wearing. Just wondering about DNA evidence.

Me too. If he attacked her he would undoubtedly have her blood on him. Maybe the weapon was the radiator, that can be sharp and blunt.

 

[Officer Dibble]

They sound lovely and really friendly.

So if Dawn had the Flu that would explain her wearing light nightware - so possibly a daytime attack then? JMO

 

[Dotta]

So if Dawn had the Flu that would explain her wearing light nightware - so possibly a daytime attack then? JMO

Especially,
as their house seems isolated and the man was gagged.

The neighbour checked on them only in the morning next day.

JMO

 

[tree1]

I wonder if the witness 'supposed' he was talking to his father - in other words how did the witness KNOW he was talking to his father? JMO

Yes I have thought the same.

 

[Dotta]

It's not "too easy" for me, it's where occam's razor is leading me at this time. And there is absolutely something to see and discuss if it was murder/suicide.

We don't know any of that information. It wouldn't be the first time neighbours, friends and even family are shocked and had no idea this could ever happen. People often hide the things they are most ashamed of (financial/health/relationship worries are probably the main three).

"Normal" people, aka people who are thinking rationally and not under extreme stress, don't typically commit murder/suicide, you're absolutely right.

"There's always a solution" isn't something people who are not thinking rationally tend to think. I wish those I know, loved and lost to suicide had realised that. They didn't. It happens.

You're applying logic to someone who may not have had the ability to use logic at that time.

I will agree that the man is not here to defend himself, so out of respect for that, I am only responding to the very few facts that we know. I am not speculating idly and am very open to considering other possibilities. I just don't subscribe to any currently.

The point of my post was:

- Murder suicide is rare occurrence
and doesn't happen out of the blue without earlier worrying red flags in somebody's behaviour.
It is a long process of deteriorating MH.

- The man used to have a job (anti fraud specialist) which required being of sound mind and mental capacity.

- He was a banker,
meaning having qualities associated with:
adaptability, problem solving, organized personality, confidence, etc.

- And he was perceived as such a person by his friends/neighbours.

- There were no red flags, worrying signs in his behaviour.
Except recent panic.

- The couple was described as loving.

So ...
I have really a problem treating this case as murder suicide.
In fact,
I rarely hear about this kind of crime,
the last time I read about it was a schizophrenic who heard voices telling him to kill his family and himself
(that's what he said in telephone call before the crime).
Oh,
and a man in Costessey in the UK.
But he also had MH problems.

Did Andrew S. suffer from such issues?

Nothing was reported.
Nobody noticed anything worrying,
quite the opposite.

Was he wearing a "mask" all the time concealing some mental problems?

IDK but IMO such a "mask" often slips.

JMO

 

[catgreen]

The point of my post was:

- Murder suicide is rare occurrence
and doesn't happen out of the blue without earlier worrying red flags in somebody's behaviour.
It is a long process of deteriorating MH.

- The man used to have a job (anti fraud specialist) which required being of sound mind and mental capacity.

- He was a banker,
meaning having qualities associated with:
adaptability, problem solving, organized personality, confidence, etc.

- And he was perceived as such a person by his friends/neighbours.

- There were no red flags, worrying signs in his behaviour.
Except recent panic.

- The couple was described as loving.

So ...
I have really a problem treating this case as murder suicide.
In fact,
I rarely hear about this kind of crime,
the last time I read about it was a schizophrenic who heard voices telling him to kill his family and himself
(that's what he said in telephone call before the crime).
Oh,
and a man in Costessey in the UK.
But he also had MH problems.

Did Andrew S. suffer from such issues?

Nothing was reported.
Nobody noticed anything worrying,
quite the opposite.

Was he wearing a "mask" all the time concealing some mental problems?

IDK but IMO such a "mask" often slips.

JMO

I understand your point but it is simply not true that suicides always occur after worsening mental health, sometimes (personal experience) they occur completely out of the blue, and the police/coroner can find nothing concerning on phones/laptops/behaviour leading up to the event itself. The poor family are left completely without answers. Whether the same can be applied to murder suicide I dont know but I would have thought that a serious domestic fight leading to an accidental death would be enough to lead to a subsequent suicide?

 

[ch_13]

- Murder suicide is rare occurrence
and doesn't happen out of the blue without earlier worrying red flags in somebody's behaviour.
It is a long process of deteriorating MH.

RSBM.

Unfortunately, murder-suicides are not that rare.

Murder-Suicide and the Role of Guns | Violence Policy Center

Explore the tragic phenomenon of murder-suicide and its profound implications on communities, delving into the dynamics and consequences of these devastating events.

vpc.org

Murder-suicides are a shockingly common form of gun violence in the United States — an estimated 10 such incidents each week. VPC research has found that nearly 1,200 Americans die in murder-suicides each year. Nine out of 10 murder-suicides involve a gun. In nearly two-thirds of all murder-suicides, an intimate partner of the shooter is among the victims.

These stats are from the U.S., so they wouldn't hold in countries less awash in guns, but they do indicate that the impetus to commit such a crime is not limited to just a handful of people with severe mental health disorders.

It is usually true that there are red flags (although not always). However, I don't think we know enough about the circumstances here to know whether or not there were any in this case. Sure we've heard from some neighbors and friends that the couple was happy, but we haven't heard from any family members. And often, even the extended family doesn't know. It can be easy to hide abusive behavior from those outside the household. Sometimes, the only people who are witness to the red flags are the victims. We only learn about the flags in retrospect.


Edit - I was just thinking of the late actor, Phil Hartman, who was killed by his wife Brynn in the late 1990s in a murder-suicide. Only those who were closest to the couple knew that she had anger management issues and after a long period of sobriety had recently relapsed. Most of their friends had no idea. And even those who knew about her problems would never have predicted this could ever happen.

 

[Marysmith]

The point of my post was:

- Murder suicide is rare occurrence
and doesn't happen out of the blue without earlier worrying red flags in somebody's behaviour.
It is a long process of deteriorating MH.

- The man used to have a job (anti fraud specialist) which required being of sound mind and mental capacity.

- He was a banker,
meaning having qualities associated with:
adaptability, problem solving, organized personality, confidence, etc.

- And he was perceived as such a person by his friends/neighbours.

- There were no red flags, worrying signs in his behaviour.
Except recent panic.

- The couple was described as loving.

So ...
I have really a problem treating this case as murder suicide.
In fact,
I rarely hear about this kind of crime,
the last time I read about it was a schizophrenic who heard voices telling him to kill his family and himself
(that's what he said in telephone call before the crime).
Oh,
and a man in Costessey in the UK.
But he also had MH problems.

Did Andrew S. suffer from such issues?

Nothing was reported.
Nobody noticed anything worrying,
quite the opposite.

Was he wearing a "mask" all the time concealing some mental problems?

IDK but IMO such a "mask" often slips.

JMO

Respectfully... murder suicides can occur "out of the blue" to family and friends left. There are also many times that people are in an unhealthy relationship, and no one else knows. And certainly, there are many people who have committed murder suicides who seemed to be well functioning individuals.

 

[Dotta]

"Mr Rigot-Muller said:
'Investigators are not prioritising any lead between the theory of a domestic crime followed by a suicide,
or that of a double homicide carried out by a third party,
linked either to a financial motive or the deceased's past.'

Investigators have remained tight-lipped
about a possible murder suspect,
with the regional prosecutor
refusing to say whether police are looking for anyone in connection with the deaths.

A criminal inquiry has now been opened for murder,
according to Mr Rigot-Muller."

Brit couple 'may have been murdered for financial motives'

Andrew and Dawn Searle, 65 and 56, were found by a neighbour at their property in in the hamlet of Les Pesquiès, south of Villefranche-de-Rouergue, on Thursday.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Sarahlou]

"Mr Rigot-Muller said:
'Investigators are not prioritising any lead between the theory of a domestic crime followed by a suicide,
or that of a double homicide carried out by a third party,
linked either to a financial motive or the deceased's past.'

Investigators have remained tight-lipped
about a possible murder suspect,
with the regional prosecutor
refusing to say whether police are looking for anyone in connection with the deaths.

A criminal inquiry has now been opened for murder,
according to Mr Rigot-Muller."

View attachment 564247

Brit couple 'may have been murdered for financial motives'

Andrew and Dawn Searle, 65 and 56, were found by a neighbour at their property in in the hamlet of Les Pesquiès, south of Villefranche-de-Rouergue, on Thursday.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

From this link:
Police are said to be seriously considering the possibility that the deaths were a murder-suicide, with a source telling MailOnline: 'We have to look at everything in cases like this and nothing is left unchecked.

'Most murders are carried out by someone who knew the victim and that is the theory we are pursuing in this case, with the perpetrator committing suicide.

'It will take a few days to work out the finer details but the suggestion it was a break-in gone wrong is losing ground.

'Yes, his background as a financial investigator could be a motive but it's been a decade since he stopped doing this sort of work.

'That's why the murder-suicide theory is gaining more probability, but we will have to wait for the investigation to conclude before we are 100 per cent certain.'

 

[STLBlues]

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article-abstract/34/2/433/747066?redirectedFrom=fulltext

According to this article in the International journal of Epidemiology,

“ Around 50% of hanging suicides are not fully suspended—ligature points below head level are commonly used”

( Sorry, I now see several others have made this point before me….I was a bit behind catching up on the latest posts!)

My point on this, and maybe I wasn't clear in my previous posts, is that many on here are speculating that AS murdered his wife and then tried to stage this as a double homicide. If he were trying to do that, why would he commit suicide by hanging in a not fully suspended manner?

I mean what murderer forces someone to put a rope around their neck and sit on the floor, lean forward and kill themselves (for example) without the victim fighting back?