Burke did NOT kill JonBenet

[Ponytale]

The touch DNA is from the long John’s touching his arms as he put them on or took them off. The underwear DNA is saliva (assumption given the high amylase levels) and she used her fingernails somewhere on him. Did JB, BR, or PR have any scratches?

Ok.
But the UM1 DNA was found only on the waistband of the long johns. If he wore gloves, how could his arm also touch the waistband leaving DNA behind? Unless he was wearing a T-shirt in the middle of December. The basement was not a hot room... And if he did wear a T-shirt, his skin cells and arm hairs should have shed from his arms touching on other places on her body too, not only the tiny part on her long johns waistband. IMO.
I mean, he also redressed her, wiped her down, carried her into the basement and later into the wine cellar. And while writing the RN he also must have touched the paper/pad with his bare arm that was not covered by a glove (imagine yourself sitting and writing on a A4 format paper) but there was nothing found there...

But I agree, it is a possibility as long as it is proven otherwise. I'm just trying to make sense of it... because it is hard to do.

If she used her fingernails somewhere on him then there would have been the same UM1 match DNA found there, but there was not.

I do not believe that any of the Ramsey's were searched for scratches or bruises. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Ponytale]

That's the real kicker because we can explain away "touch" DNA having come from somewhere else but saliva mixed with the little child's blood? That doesn't happen by accident. I don't even want to think about how that happened, but we do know that the saliva did not match any of the Ramseys.

Well, the blood came from JonBenet while she was still bleeding. We know that. Somewhere the blood met the DNA and that got mixed.
One possibility is that the DNA was already on her underwear. Possibly, got there during the manufacturing/packing process. Even if it is saliva - people sneeze. It could be explained away simply by that. The manufacturer sneezed or the person packing the underwear sneezed or people in the store taking them out of the package sneezed. One possibility for explaining the high amylase. IMO. Although, to my understanding, the serological testing done was inconclusive...

But let's still go with the saliva theory, as it is still a possibility. Another possibility is that she used a restroom at the Whites house. Touched the sink, faucet, toilet-seat, flush-button or any other surface in a restroom that had someones saliva on it. And after that she touched her underwear with her own hands that had that DNA on them. Many random people at random times could have sneezed there or just spat in the sink. We do not know how clean the toilets were. After that she washed her hands with a soap and washed her hands clean of the DNA. Just another option of possibility.
Third possibility is that, is she did ask for assistance in the bathroom, someone other than Fleet White helped her at some other point that night. Were all the guests at the Whites party tested? I would like to believe so, but do not know it as a fact.
And then there is still the possibility that there was an intruder in the house. But as the only thing supporting that theory is only this little-partial-microscopical-unsourced DNA found only on two locations, I choose to have my doubts that the DNA has something significant to do with this case.

I still believe the DNA was somehow transferred there by an simple explanation. And I believe that because the DNA trace was so little and partial. If it had been anything else, IMO, there would have been a lot more DNA.
I know there are people here who believe otherwise and I accept it - I do not argue with you and I respect your opinions on that matter. I do not know the truth and choose not preach it, just explaining my opinion here.

I would like to do that experiment myself if I could. Buy new underwear and test it. I believe I would find a lot of foreign DNA on it. I would expect saliva, skin cells, tiny arm hairs, why not even semen if a person took it out of the package at the store with unclean hands. All is possible. And that is why I always wash everything before use.

John Ramsey has been pushing for more DNA testing of the items taken from the house. They took urine-stained carpet samples, a backpack that didn't belong to the Ramsey's, and much more. There very likely is more of the killer's DNA.

I really hope so. I will believe it to be a DNA case if there is more UM1 DNA found. I would like to see this case finally solved, no matter who did it.

I hope they do it before John passes because I think he deserves to find the killer of his little girl before he dies.

If he's not guilty of anything, of course.
But if he had something to do with it. Anything. I would hope for a confession...



Here is a good article to read about the DNA: DNA in doubt: New analysis challenges DA’s exoneration of Ramseys

And a quote from the article:
“To simply state that there’s no innocent way that this DNA could have arrived at separate sites on JonBenet’s underwear … there’s simply no scientific justification to make such a statement,” Danielson said. “It’s just simply not true.”
Danielson offered a hypothetical: Say JonBenet had physical contact with other kids she was recently playing with, or had contact at a party on Christmas night, or say she touched anything bearing others’ DNA; she could have then transferred that genetic material to her own clothes simply while getting dressed."

 

[Ponytale]

Here is a good article to read about the DNA:

DNA in doubt: New analysis challenges DA’s exoneration of Ramseys

The DNA evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case doesn’t support a pivotal and controversial development in Colorado’s most vexing unsolved murder — a former Boulder prosecutor’…

www.dailycamera.com

A quote from that article:
“To simply state that there’s no innocent way that this DNA could have arrived at separate sites on JonBenet’s underwear … there’s simply no scientific justification to make such a statement,” Danielson said. “It’s just simply not true.”

Danielson offered a hypothetical: Say JonBenet had physical contact with other kids she was recently playing with, or had contact at a party on Christmas night, or say she touched anything bearing others’ DNA; she could have then transferred that genetic material to her own clothes simply while getting dressed."

 

[Bean&Cheese]

I am clearly NOT smarter than a 3rd grader, lol, also blonde??
I appreciate the effort and the tail end of your explanation helps, somewhat.
Thanks!

You are plenty smart!!! Also, after doing some more digging, I think that I am wrong in my understanding because I found the following from the JonBenetRamsey.pbworks.com website that shows the profile information: (but, who knows how legit this is)

 

[skoogmagoo]

I see no reason for the parents to kill JBR. Patsy (reportedly) had mood swings yet no history of violence at all.

If JR, then, why? He lost everything as the result - a company, an excellent job. Money. Societal standing. Why? To molest, as some say? Well...then we first have to assume that he is a pedophile. I don't see any known history of it, but I specifically Googled where pedophiles would go for sex tourism in the 90es. Three countries were on top. Not in own house and then kill a child. Not people with "reputation." To some islands, yes.

Even if we assume that JR was desperately in love with the daughter, the least reasonable thing would be to kill her. He is ambitioys and practical enough to cover up an accident or what he suspected could be someone's murder, but his own reason for killing a child makes no sense to me.

A brother who was very immature for his age? Some impulsive, hyperactive, stupid behavior? With two soporific parents in the house? Possible.

But the parents don't fit the criteria for murderers. And then someone, somewhere mentioned "satanic rituals." Do people really believe it?

Personally, I actually believe Patsy had a sleepwalking event. Even though as far as I know Patsy didn't sleepwalk. These kinds of cases have happened before, but I never believed it could happen, I thought the murderers were faking it, but with Patsy I feel she really did not remember doing any of it.

 

[Ponytale]

Personally, I actually believe Patsy had a sleepwalking event. Even though as far as I know Patsy didn't sleepwalk. These kinds of cases have happened before, but I never believed it could happen, I thought the murderers were faking it, but with Patsy I feel she really did not remember doing any of it.

That's sure something that I have never read about before.
So, you believe that Patsy did all of the crime and the staging while she was sleepwalking?

 

[GRT]

A child abuse expert named John McCann who examined the autopsy slides believed ongoing prior abuse.

The only member of law enforcement present at the time the body was recovered from the basement just so happened to be an experienced sex crimes investigator. She stated her belief in a 2000 depo that the perpetrator of "incest" was John Ramsey. She implied the Department of Social Services agreed with her.

Linda Arndt. She's been discredited so many times, and Det. Steve Thomas primarily blamed her for the messed-up crime scene. Yes, in her depo, she did say she "knew" JR did it, just by her feelings.

She took a lot of heat, but what did she expect? She moved the body. What a huge mistake. After she left the BPD, she worked for the University of Colorado but they fired her in just a few months time.

She ended up trimming trees.

After all the mistakes she made at the crime scene, she was asked if she thought she'd done anything to impact the investigation and you know her answer? She said, "I think I did a phenomenal job."

Talk about a narcissist.

John Ramsey's fibers link him directly to SA.

That's incorrect.

Fibers on JBR's private area were a match to the type of fibers on a shirt/sweater JR owned but had never worn. The fibers were black wool but none of JBR's DNA was found on that shirt. And, it had never been laundered. Those fibers also matched virtually all black wool fibers from the same animal source. Fibers are not like fingerprints and wool fibers are extremely common.

JBR's bedroom is situated a floor below the parents bedroom in an odd and isolated location, clear across the other side of the hall from Burke. The staircase leading up to the master bedroom bathroom happens to be right outside JBR's bedroom door.

Child abuse investigator Holly Smith, in an interview with the Denver Post made a point of saying a child's bedroom is an important part of any child abuse investigation. Holly Smith was a member of Boulder Social Services.

Susanne Bernhard assessed Burke Ramsey as being a child who'd been conditioned to keep secrets. She recommended a follow up for Burke in specifically the area of "uncomfortable touching". Susanne Bernhard is part of Boulder Social Services.

But it doesn't matter how many times I post this info. I get it. People want VERY badly to believe John is innocent and that Burke is the perpetrator. There is no evidence of this little boy's involvement but people say it doesn't matter and shouldn't, BDI is simply their theory. I don't really understand it but I know it'll continue.

Well, it's not really a matter of anyone wanting to believe JR is innocent or wanting to believe BR is guilty. It's just a matter of hearing evidence that supports only one theory.

At this point, I think most folks understand it was probably an intruder, based on how she was killed and the unknown male DNA that was mixed with JBR's blood and did not match anyone in the Ramsey household. Plus, that same DNA was found under her fingernails.

 

[GRT]

That's sure something that I have never read about before.
So, you believe that Patsy did all of the crime and the staging while she was sleepwalking?

That's a new one for me, too, but never say never.

 

[Ponytale]

It's just a matter of hearing evidence that supports only one theory.

At this point, I think most folks understand it was probably an intruder, based on how she was killed and the unknown male DNA that was mixed with JBR's blood and did not match anyone in the Ramsey household. Plus, that same DNA was found under her fingernails.

Now what exactly makes you say that?

Why would most folks need to (BBM) "understand that it was probably an intruder"? It is only your opinion, isn't it? I sure do not yet understand it and I do not think that I am a minority in this. Does that make me less worthy on this forum than those who believe an intruder did it? Why would it matter anyway?

Answering for myself, I sure have read and heard of evidence and opinions and theories supporting many theories. I choose to read and think along with all of them. I do not see that I should change my mind regarding in what I believe in, just by reading someone else's theory on that matter. Do you?

I have suggested previously that we all here should be open minded and accept all of them, not choose what is right or what is wrong. Still, I see a lot of suggestions made by certain posters here about what theory should be believed and what should not...
And I really can not stay quiet when I see those kind of remarks made again and again.

Why is it so hard to accept for some, that people are free to believe whatever theory they choose? We can ask for additional questions for clarifications, we can debate over them (friendly), or we can just reply that we respectfully do not agree with them - but diminishing theories, just because they do not align with what we believe in, should not be the case. IMO

 

[GRT]

Now what exactly makes you say that?

Why would most folks need to (BBM) "understand that it was probably an intruder"? It is only your opinion, isn't it? I sure do not yet understand it and I do not think that I am a minority in this. Does that make me less worthy on this forum than those who believe an intruder did it? Why would it matter anyway?

Yes, it is my opinion, hence my wording, "I think..."

But, I do think that. As the years have passed and the public has become more aware of the DNA evidence of an unknown male, mixed with JBR's blood, and under her fingernails, the opinions of people I've spoken with have changed from thinking the parents did it to thinking an intruder did it.

But, of course, all opinions are worthy. I just feel as though we seen a shift in public perception in the direction of thinking an IDI.

Answering for myself, I sure have read and heard of evidence and opinions and theories supporting many theories. I choose to read and think along with all of them. I do not see that I should change my mind regarding in what I believe in, just by reading someone else's theory on that matter. Do you?

Yes, my opinion has changed over time, based on reading official documents. I used to think the parents did it--back when the only information I had came from the media.

Then, after the internet made it possible to find reports and documents, I revised my opinion.

Will I revise it again? Maybe. It really depends on whether I discover new information that conflicts with the documentation I've seen so far.

I have suggested previously that we all here should be open minded and accept all of them, not choose what is right or what is wrong. Still, I see a lot of suggestions made by certain posters here about what theory should be believed and what should not...
And I really can not stay quiet when I see those kind of remarks made again and again.

Why is it so hard to accept for some, that people are free to believe whatever theory they choose? We can ask for additional questions for clarifications, we can debate over them (friendly), or we can just reply that we respectfully do not agree with them - but diminishing theories, just because they do not align with what we believe in, should not be the case. IMO

I think we should all be open-minded, too, and I was just responding to Swirlz' comment about how all the evidence points to JR did it and she can't believe some still think BR did it.

My response was to say, most people think none of the family did it. And, like I said, I think that's true, but that doesn't diminish anyone else's theory. Who knows? Maybe someone will come up with the idea that aliens did it--and then we find out that's true.

I'm in the FDI camp, but many disagree with me and some have made fun of my opinion. Some have suggested that it's in poor taste to think it was FW.

Not being in a majority opinion doesn't mean anything. My FDI theory is not in the majority and I don't feel bad when someone points that out.

 

[skoogmagoo]

That's sure something that I have never read about before.
So, you believe that Patsy did all of the crime and the staging while she was sleepwalking?

I don't believe Patsy did any " staging" she just did what she did and went back to bed and when she awoke a couple hours later, she remembered nothing.

 

[Chypre]

Personally, I actually believe Patsy had a sleepwalking event. Even though as far as I know Patsy didn't sleepwalk. These kinds of cases have happened before, but I never believed it could happen, I thought the murderers were faking it, but with Patsy I feel she really did not remember doing any of it.

Maybe.

As an aside, this tickled my brain. Whenever there is a theory with Patsy, I think, "What's Patsy doll doing next?" As if a doll and dollhouse are being used to recreate the scene. We all have so many ideas about her.

 

[Kakidoll]

There was Absolute staging, IMO. and too many lies from the family for it to be an 'intruder' that was not KNOWN to them. Someone knows who and how in that family.... i'm just not positive which one(s). JMO

 

[Bekind89]

Yes, it is my opinion, hence my wording, "I think..."

But, I do think that. As the years have passed and the public has become more aware of the DNA evidence of an unknown male, mixed with JBR's blood, and under her fingernails, the opinions of people I've spoken with have changed from thinking the parents did it to thinking an intruder did it.

But, of course, all opinions are worthy. I just feel as though we seen a shift in public perception in the direction of thinking an IDI.

Yes, my opinion has changed over time, based on reading official documents. I used to think the parents did it--back when the only information I had came from the media.

Then, after the internet made it possible to find reports and documents, I revised my opinion.

Will I revise it again? Maybe. It really depends on whether I discover new information that conflicts with the documentation I've seen so far.

I think we should all be open-minded, too, and I was just responding to Swirlz' comment about how all the evidence points to JR did it and she can't believe some still think BR did it.

My response was to say, most people think none of the family did it. And, like I said, I think that's true, but that doesn't diminish anyone else's theory. Who knows? Maybe someone will come up with the idea that aliens did it--and then we find out that's true.

I'm in the FDI camp, but many disagree with me and some have made fun of my opinion. Some have suggested that it's in poor taste to think it was FW.

Not being in a majority opinion doesn't mean anything. My FDI theory is not in the majority and I don't feel bad when someone points that out.

I respectfully disagree with your remark. Most people actually believe JR or PR killed JB. Most people find the intruder theory implausible. Just my observations.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I respectfully disagree with your remark. Most people actually believe JR or PR killed JB. Most people find the intruder theory implausible. Just my observations.

Agree. Most people I have interacted with about this case believe a family member did it.

 

[BreakingNews]

So DNA was found under her fingernails. I imagine that usually she would have had immaculate fingernails. This DNA is from an unknown source. Were ALL people at the house tested? Is this DNA fresh, or had it been there a few days. To me, it all comes down to that dna under her fingernails. A paid assassin???

 

[Bean&Cheese]

So DNA was found under her fingernails. I imagine that usually she would have had immaculate fingernails. This DNA is from an unknown source. Were ALL people at the house tested? Is this DNA fresh, or had it been there a few days. To me, it all comes down to that dna under her fingernails. A paid assassin???

Yes, there is DNA in her fingernails from an unknown male and this same DNA (presumed to be saliva GIVEN the high amylase levels) is also found mixed with JonBenets blood in the CROTCH of her underwear and also in the waist band of her longjohns that she was wearing. NONE of the DNA found in these critical areas are from members in her immediate family.

I have taken a deep dive into the evidence available. As in the actual evidence, not the interpretation of the evidence, and there is nothing that indicates that John, Patsy, or Burke did it. I was undecided as to who did what in the case for a long time, but I’ve finally come to the conclusion that an intruder makes the most sense IMO.

IMHO:
The offender broke into the house close to when the Ramseys left for the Christmas Party on the 25th (either through the basement window or through a window inside of the south-facing bathroom- there are disturbances to both, but mainly the basement).
There was rope (mountaineering-like rope) found in a bag in JAR room that did not belong to anyone in the family and JAR’s suitcase was the one that was seen below the basement window in the crime photo that wasn’t there previously.
Inside of that suitcase was evidence that the offender attempted to put JBR inside of it (fibers from the blanket that she was covered with, JBR hair, and clothes) were found inside of that suitcase.
The roll of duct tape, the murder weapon, JBR original underwear has never been found.
While the Ramseys were at the party, I believe that the offender went through the house and carefully snooped around (he wouldn’t have left a big obvious mess because then the Ramseys would have known there was an intruder in the house and called the police. No, he needed everything to be neat and tidy so that he could have access to JonBenet… I’ll go on later, but I’m about to fall asleep.

 

[CloudedTruth]

So DNA was found under her fingernails. I imagine that usually she would have had immaculate fingernails. This DNA is from an unknown source. Were ALL people at the house tested? Is this DNA fresh, or had it been there a few days. To me, it all comes down to that dna under her fingernails. A paid assassin???

Actually, both BR and JBR had poor hygiene habits. The only time she would’ve had “immaculate nails” is for a pageant. PR, her sister & mother talked about doing the pre-pageant scrub where they gave her a thorough clean specifically for the pageant. Even PR admitted JBR was often reluctant to wash her hands. She had not bathed on 12/25. She had been riding her bike during the day. When PR was asked if JBR washed her hands before they went to the White’s, she said she hoped that she did, but didn’t know if she did or not. She said she was a “typical” kid who didn’t wash her hands much. When asked if anyone had told JBR to wash her hands at the White’s before dinner, both PR and JR said they didn’t know. Neither one of them had told her to. She and Daphne were playing on the floor that night. The DNA under her fingernails was a very small amount and could’ve come from anywhere.

 

[GRT]

The DNA under her fingernails was a very small amount and could’ve come from anywhere.

RSBM for focus.

Yes, it was a small amount, but it matches the DNA (suspected to be saliva) that was mixed with JonBenet's blood and found in the crotch of her panties after she'd been murdered.

Had it only been under her nails, that'd be one thing. But, mixed with her blood in the crotch of her panties, is quite another.

 

[Ponytale]

RSBM for focus.

Yes, it was a small amount, but it matches the DNA (suspected to be saliva) that was mixed with JonBenet's blood and found in the crotch of her panties after she'd been murdered.

Had it only been under her nails, that'd be one thing. But, mixed with her blood in the crotch of her panties, is quite another.

Actually, as I understand, it's not been proven to be a match. The DNA sample is so small that there wasn't enough of a profile recovered from either the panties or the fingernails to say that the samples matched.