Burke

[Linda7NJ]

I saw a TV Documentary on CTV just the other day. DNA from saliva was found on her and another child. The other child wasn't murdered because her mother heard something. The perp broke into the house& hid waiting for them to return, and sexually assaulted the girl. Both children attended the same dance studio.I didn't see the entire program, but they part I did see left me feeling very bad for the Ramsey's. They are broke and her cancer returned, they have no health insurance. The show cleared them. I don't know what to think. For so long I really believed Patsy did it.

 

[BlueCrab]

I saw a TV Documentary on CTV just the other day. DNA from saliva was found on her and another child. The other child wasn't murdered because her mother heard something. The perp broke into the house& hid waiting for them to return, and sexually assaulted the girl. Both children attended the same dance studio.I didn't see the entire program, but they part I did see left me feeling very bad for the Ramsey's. They are broke and her cancer returned, they have no health insurance. The show cleared them. I don't know what to think. For so long I really believed Patsy did it.

Linda7NJ,

The show you watched on Court TV was an "infomercial" in favor of the Ramseys. The reason you felt sorry for the Ramseys is the show presented only one side of the issue and its goal was to try to make the Ramseys appear to be innocent. There were no rebuttals allowed. If you won't allow rebuttals, I can prove that Saddan Hussein, or Mickey Mouse, or anybody I pick, murdered JonBenet. I would have a license to lie.

There appears to be a nationwide conspiracy by the media, blessed by the courts, to jam the intruder theory down the throats of the public, even though 75% of the public, using common sense, are convinced a Ramsey killed JonBenet or at least know who killed her and are covering it up. The endless string of Ramsey lies reveal the coverup.

IMO the courts are going along with the conspiracy because very young children are involved in the killing and it would be against Colorado law to reveal their names and the truth. It appears that selected media outlets have been told the truth and are cooperating to promote the intruder theory so the case can draw to a close and go down into the history books as an unsolved murder by an unknown intruder.

BlueCrab

 

[concernedperson]

Patsy still had a hand in this. IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Linda7NJ,

The show you watched on Court TV was an "infomercial" in favor of the Ramseys. The reason you felt sorry for the Ramseys is the show presented only one side of the issue and its goal was to try to make the Ramseys appear to be innocent. There were no rebuttals allowed. If you won't allow rebuttals, I can prove that Saddan Hussein, or Mickey Mouse, or anybody I pick, murdered JonBenet. I would have a license to lie.

There appears to be a nationwide conspiracy by the media, blessed by the courts, to jam the intruder theory down the throats of the public, even though 75% of the public, using common sense, are convinced a Ramsey killed JonBenet or at least know who killed her and are covering it up. The endless string of Ramsey lies reveal the coverup.

IMO the courts are going along with the conspiracy because very young children are involved in the killing and it would be against Colorado law to reveal their names and the truth. It appears that selected media outlets have been told the truth and are cooperating to promote the intruder theory so the case can draw to a close and go down into the history books as an unsolved murder by an unknown intruder.

BlueCrab

The problem I am having is the media and what to believe. I though John Benet's little body had evidence of OLD sexual abuse trauma? I don't recall hearing about saliva, blood or DNA evidence before fairly recently.

IMO LE did a really crappy job! And the media...well..what can you say about the media..without getting banned?

 

[Rainsong]

Sure do, but I wouldn't call them up if my daughter was kidnapped. The point is, they called a small, select group of people. Why did that small group contain a lawyer who JR himself stated was a professional associate he was friendly with?

Oh dear. My closest friend happens to be married to the sheriff. Guess I shouldn't call her should anything awful happen in case others might view my action as suspicious.

'Course, I could always call my next closest friend. She's just a witch.

Rainsong

 

[Rainsong]

The problem I am having is the media and what to believe. I though John Benet's little body had evidence of OLD sexual abuse trauma? I don't recall hearing about saliva, blood or DNA evidence before fairly recently.

IMO LE did a really crappy job! And the media...well..what can you say about the media..without getting banned?

Well there's another bone of contention, Linda.

Some people who look at the autopsy report, photos and tissue slides believe there is evidence of old sexual abuse. Others don't, and from what I just finished reading (for the fourth time) in Steve Thomas' book, the BPD could never get a firm commitment from any of their experts that there was previous sex abuse to the point where they would testify to such.

Rainsong

 

[halycon]

Blue Crab:

I am curious if you have heard of any case in Colorado, in recent times, where a child under 10 committed a homicide and was not dealt with in the legal system in some way. I realize he or she cannot be charged with the crime, and for the record, I don't share your theory.

 

[tipper]

http://www.douglas.co.us/sheriff/Divisions/Investigations/SexOffenderReg.htm

Currently the Douglas County Sheriff's Office has 90 people who are registered sex offenders living within the county. Thirty (30) of the 90 registered sex offenders are living at the Griffith Center Juvenile Treatment Center in Larkspur. The list of sex offenders maintained by the Douglas County Sheriff's Office does not include the sex offenders registered within the incorporated cities in Douglas County or the juvenile sex offenders currently at the Griffith Center. The sex offender list is updated every two weeks or as new registrations or re-registrations are received.

http://www.klaaskids.org/st-colo.htm

Offenders Required to Register: Adult and juvenile sex offenders convicted in the state of Colorado on or after July 1, 1991 for sex offenses against children, on or after July 1, 1994 for all sex offenses.

http://www.cssd11.k12.co.us/springcreek/about_us/dyc_colorado_juvenile_justice_system_overview.htm

[font=Arial, Helvetica]The Colorado Children's Code contains provisions for mandatory sentence offenders, repeat offenders, violent offenders, and aggravated juvenile offenders. There are also municipal courts in each city in Colorado. These courts hold proceedings regarding the violation of municipal ordinances and traffic laws. Within the last several years, there has been a trend in Colorado for municipalities to pass ordinances, which cover certain less serious delinquent acts. When a juvenile is apprehended for the violation of a municipal ordinance, the consequence is a summons to municipal court, where the juvenile may be fined or put on municipal diversion or probation, if they exist.

...
I. Youthful Offender System
The Youthful Offender System (YOS) is operated by the Colorado Department of Corrections rather than the traditional system through the Division of Youth Corrections. The intent of this program is aimed at serious juvenile offenders who have been directly filed in the district court as adults, but are diverted upon sentencing to the YOS program rather than placed directly in adult facilities. In 1996, Colorado’s Children’s Code was amended to expand direct file provisions by adding certain crimes to the list for which juveniles 14 years and older may be subject to direct file. A juvenile may be sentenced to the YOS for a determinate period of not less than one year nor more than five years and a mandatory period of parole supervision for a period of one year. Upon successful completion of the programs in the YOS, including the mandatory period of supervision, the sentence to the Department of Corrections shall have been completed. Whenever a person is returned to the district court for revocation, the court shall impose the original sentence following the revocation of the sentence to the YOS. During any period of incarceration under the YOS, privileges including, but limited to, television, radios, entertainment systems, cigarettes, and access to snacks shall not be available for a youthful offender unless such privileges have been earned. YOS is not available for class 1 or 2 felonies or some sexual offenses. The YOS is under the direction and control of the Executive Director of the Department of Corrections (DOC). The DOC must implement a procedure for the transfer of an offender to another facility for vocational or training services or when an offender in the system poses a danger to himself and has been convicted of a Class 3 felony and has attained the age of eighteen (18) years. The YOS opened in 1994 and is subject to adjustments pending legislative and gubernatorial support of recommendations made by the General Assembly. Testimony provided to the Joint Budget Committee of the GA indicated that the YOS is only slightly more effective in reducing recidivism then traditional correctional methods, but may work better for more serious offenders. The program will be adjusted to focus on the serious population type. The mission of the YOS program, ". . . is to provide offenders with a controlled and regimented environment that affirms dignity of self and others, promotes value of work and self-discipline, and develops useful skills and abilities through enriched programs." A system schematic of the YOS is provided in the appendix.

[/font]

 

[Voice of Reason]

Oh dear. My closest friend happens to be married to the sheriff. Guess I shouldn't call her should anything awful happen in case others might view my action as suspicious.

'Course, I could always call my next closest friend. She's just a witch.

Rainsong

Please note the bold words. You are obviously not understanding the point of discussion. You can call whoever you want that you are friends with...call the witch, call the lawyer, call the priest. But JR himself, stated that he was not really a close friend of the lawyer, more of a professional associate. So why, in a time when you are calling those closest to you, and at a time when this is not yet a murder, would you call a lawyer? In your scenario, you are talking about your closest friend. That is very different. Nice try, though!

 

[Rainsong]

Please note the bold words. You are obviously not understanding the point of discussion. You can call whoever you want that you are friends with...call the witch, call the lawyer, call the priest. But JR himself, stated that he was not really a close friend of the lawyer, more of a professional associate. So why, in a time when you are calling those closest to you, and at a time when this is not yet a murder, would you call a lawyer? In your scenario, you are talking about your closest friend. That is very different. Nice try, though!

Actually, I don't think that is what he stated--and yes--I read the quote. Matter of interpretation.

But the question is--did John Ramsey call what'shisface? (Sorry, can't remember the name and I broke my glasses yesterday so I can't look it up.)

Rainsong

 

[tipper]

Actually, I don't think that is what he stated--and yes--I read the quote. Matter of interpretation.

But the question is--did John Ramsey call what'shisface? (Sorry, can't remember the name and I broke my glasses yesterday so I can't look it up.)

Rainsong

Unfortunately Sawyer's VO interrupted his answer. The impression I get is he heard from someone other than John.
http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/ptl.htm

DIANE SAWYER: December 26 -- how did you hear that something had happened?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I had been snowshoeing with my family and friends, and we were ...

DIANE SAWYER: (VO) When Bynum, who had lost an infant grandchild of his own, learned that JonBenet had been murdered, he rushed to a friend's house, where the Ramseys and their nine - year - old son Burke had gone to stay.

(on camera) Can you tell me about what you saw when you walked in that door?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I think I can. John and Patsy were there with family and friends, their minister. And just after I got there, everyone was -- sorry -- was kneeling in the living room and praying together. And when they got through, I went up and hugged John and -- and then I went over to Patsy. She was sitting on the couch. And I had to help her up and -- and give her a hug. So that was what I found when I got there. Everyone was devastated. It was difficult.


….

DIANE SAWYER: (VO) Even so, we were told the Ramseys volunteered to give hair, fingerprint, blood samples. And John Ramsey offered to be formally interviewed by the police if he could do it in the house near his family. Bynum says it didn't happen only because police wanted both parents, and Dr Beuf said Patsy Ramsey wasn't able to talk.

(From taped telephone conversation)

DR. BEUF: I had advised that it was not good to have Patsy there because she was under heavy sedation and would not have been able to function. And then the story came out that the Ramseys had refused to be interviewed by the police. That is just flat wrong. I sat there.

DIANE SAWYER: (on camera) Why did they get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I went, as their friend, to help. And I felt that they should have legal advice -- nothing more, nothing less.

DIANE SAWYER: So you're the reason they got a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I'm the one.

DIANE SAWYER: It did not occur to them first?

MICHAEL BYNUM: They certainly never made any mention of it to me.

DIANE SAWYER: I'm trying to imagine, if I am in the middle of this agony and my friend says to me, "You better get a lawyer " I think I'd go, "What? What?"

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well ...

DIANE SAWYER: This horrible thing has happened to my child. There's a note here. I should get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well, first of all, that was not the words that I used. I told John there were some legal issues that I thought needed to be taken care of. And John just looked at me and said, "Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Thanks for clearing that up, Tipper. That is good information you've provided. That explains a lot. However, regardless of Dr. Beuf's comments, the formal interviews being done in 4/97 speaks volumes about whether the Ramseys were initially cooperative with police.

I found this statement very interesting from John "I've never talked to Burke about this" Ramsey...

And John just looked at me and said, "Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

 

[Rainsong]

Unfortunately Sawyer's VO interrupted his answer. The impression I get is he heard from someone other than John.
http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/ptl.htm

DIANE SAWYER: December 26 -- how did you hear that something had happened?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I had been snowshoeing with my family and friends, and we were ...

DIANE SAWYER: (VO) When Bynum, who had lost an infant grandchild of his own, learned that JonBenet had been murdered, he rushed to a friend's house, where the Ramseys and their nine - year - old son Burke had gone to stay.

(on camera) Can you tell me about what you saw when you walked in that door?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I think I can. John and Patsy were there with family and friends, their minister. And just after I got there, everyone was -- sorry -- was kneeling in the living room and praying together. And when they got through, I went up and hugged John and -- and then I went over to Patsy. She was sitting on the couch. And I had to help her up and -- and give her a hug. So that was what I found when I got there. Everyone was devastated. It was difficult.


….

DIANE SAWYER: (VO) Even so, we were told the Ramseys volunteered to give hair, fingerprint, blood samples. And John Ramsey offered to be formally interviewed by the police if he could do it in the house near his family. Bynum says it didn't happen only because police wanted both parents, and Dr Beuf said Patsy Ramsey wasn't able to talk.

(From taped telephone conversation)

DR. BEUF: I had advised that it was not good to have Patsy there because she was under heavy sedation and would not have been able to function. And then the story came out that the Ramseys had refused to be interviewed by the police. That is just flat wrong. I sat there.

DIANE SAWYER: (on camera) Why did they get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I went, as their friend, to help. And I felt that they should have legal advice -- nothing more, nothing less.

DIANE SAWYER: So you're the reason they got a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: I'm the one.

DIANE SAWYER: It did not occur to them first?

MICHAEL BYNUM: They certainly never made any mention of it to me.

DIANE SAWYER: I'm trying to imagine, if I am in the middle of this agony and my friend says to me, "You better get a lawyer " I think I'd go, "What? What?"

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well ...

DIANE SAWYER: This horrible thing has happened to my child. There's a note here. I should get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well, first of all, that was not the words that I used. I told John there were some legal issues that I thought needed to be taken care of. And John just looked at me and said, "Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

Thank you, Tipper.

Rainsong

 

[tipper]

Thanks for clearing that up, Tipper. That is good information you've provided. That explains a lot. However, regardless of Dr. Beuf's comments, the formal interviews being done in 4/97 speaks volumes about whether the Ramseys were initially cooperative with police.

I found this statement very interesting from John "I've never talked to Burke about this" Ramsey...

I think obviously they must have told Burke what happened. Otherwise, he'd be wondering all these years where his sister was.

Do you have the context of the "never talked to Burke" quote. It rings a bell but I can't remember the rest offhand.

The impression I got from their various statements is they followed the standard advice for children in therapy because of crimes and didn't bring it up but were always there to answer questions as best they could. It's a difficult line to walk but gives the child a safe haven (home) to offset the therapy sessions where he has to discuss the crime.

 

[Jayelles]

Do you have the context of the "never talked to Burke" quote. It rings a bell but I can't remember the rest offhand.

I'm thinking it might have been the NE interview ??????

 

[Voice of Reason]

I have read the "never talked to Burke" idea in a number of places, I believe. At the moment, here is what I've found.

NE Interview - 4/3/01

In opening up about Burke for the first time, the Ramseys insisted they never once sat down with him to discuss the murder, but just said his sister "was gone...and was in heaven."

The Ramseys were asked whether Burke, now 14, ever asked for details of JonBenet's death.

"He has never...we have never talked about anything," said Patsy, who wore a purple suit and white blouse.

As/if I find more/better sources, I'll update. I know I've seen this in a few places.

 

[Toltec]

DIANE SAWYER: This horrible thing has happened to my child. There's a note here. I should get a lawyer?

MICHAEL BYNUM: Well, first of all, that was not the words that I used. I told John there were some legal issues that I thought needed to be taken care of. And John just looked at me and said, "Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

[/size][/QUOTE]

WOW! I've never heard this before - "he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did."

Why would Bynum want to speak to Burke???!!!

After JonBenet's body had been discovered...an FBI profiler came to the Ramsey home. He told the Detective in charge AND the assistant DA Pete Hofstrom who also showed up to "look to the family"....

It's no secret that Hofstrom and Bynum are good friends. My guess is that Pete Hofstrom phoned Bynum and told him that the Ramseys are suspects.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I think you're misreading the quote...Bynum told John there were some legal issues to be addressed, and he asked John if it was ok for him to pursue them. John said okay and went to talk with Burke while Bynum went ahead pursuing the legal front. I don't think he is saying that he joined John and Burke for their conversation.

"Do whatever you think needs to be done," and he and Burke -- he went into a room to talk with Burke and so I did.

In other words, remove part of that sentence and you have "do whatever you think needs to be done, and so I did.

 

[aussiesheila]

http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/ptl.htm


[/size]

Thanks tipper for posting this site again. I've been looking for it madly after discovering it on one of your earlier posts but couldn't find it.

I think people all the who say that John and Patsy "lawyered up" and refused police interviews should read the whole of this interview by Diane Sawyer with Michael Bynam. There is always another view of things....

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

Yes, Patsy made the calls to the friends a minute or two after making the "performance of a lifetime" 911 call.

BlueCrab you confirmed that it was PATSY. Sure it was PATSY. And PATSY putting on the acts and PATSY being evasive and PATSY acting suspiciously.

I agree totally with you. PATSY is covering up, she was covering up pre 5.30 am

But NOT John. John NO.

John is not doing ANY of these things.

It is PATSY and ONLY PATSY that is doing the covering up.

Go back to your primary sources PLEASE. Re-read them. Yes there is a mountain of evidence there implicating PATSY in the coverup. But evidence implicating John in the coverup NO NO NO. Not if you look closely. Not if you remember that he had already been through the loss of a daughter before and he had a very, very strange second wife who he would have been protective of.