GUILTY CA - Ana Abulaban, 29, and Rayburn Barron, 28, killed by TikTok'r husband, San Diego, 21 Oct 2021

[Weki]

I agree the prosecutor is quite dispassionate. I do like a little indignant, dramatic flair in prosecutors. I know this is not entertainment but there is a theatrical element to trials and I think litigators would agree with that sentiment.

I got to the mistrial issue (I’m watching little bits here and there) and that was a completely unnecessary point to make. The state has SO MUCH evidence and that was a nothingburger. Even the judge was like ‘he’s been up there for 2 days before that came out and the jury has already decided he’s full of horse manure’ hahaha he didn’t say the last part of obviously.

I have to say I like the defense lawyers. I’ve only seen cross though. They don’t go over the top with their objections. Even when he had that over the top reaction about the inmate info they didn’t do anything. He was talking to them from the stand. I’ve never seen a defendant do that. I feel most defense lawyers would’ve jumped up and made a grandstanding objection. Maybe they did - it seemed like there was a jump cut in the CourtTV video.

JMO

 

[Sustained]

I really don't like the thought of a young person being sentenced to a life in prison with no chance at parole. The thing is Ali didn't come across as genuinely remorseful. He could still get confused by life's mixed messages and fly into a deadly tantrum again thinking he's justified. Jurors have to feel assured he won't kill again, and I think they'll have doubts. All MOO
​

Respectfully snipped and BBM -

I don't have any issue with him getting LWOP - no more than I did Daniel Wozniak getting the DP a few years back.
AA had ample ops to not go through with the murders and did so regardless. He is a domestic abuser and should have sought help years ago as he could've killed Ana on multiple occasions. Two innocent lives have been taken and his daughter will soon be parentless. Imagine the mental torment she will go through as she grows up.

And I truly believe there are some that can't be rehabilitated - he is one of them.

 

[ttjo]

Need to go over what's going on in my mind while waiting. I was hoping Court TV would take us into the courtroom for the Closing Arguments, but all I've seen so far are very short clips of the Prosecution giving her closing statements.

I've appreciated everyone's astute observations and thought provoking psychological views on Ali. Hope the Jurors are as bright as the people here.

Having watched trials before, the little I saw I'd say maybe Prosecution doesn't seem to have a passionate, dramatic flair to her presentation in her closing. She seems to rely more on just listing all his bad actions. Perhaps she doesn't want to entertain all the poor me defense. She does point out the premeditation of his actions and that the State proved 1st Degree Murder not Voluntary Manslaughter.

However, his searching for trash can pics doesn't really speak to me of him looking to dump the bodies, or planning future killings. I think she's off there or "out of her mind" like Ali told her. lol

Probably doesn't matter, Jurors most likely will come back with the expected verdict fast. I do want to hear the Defense's closing, but I anticipate it will be more of the victim blaming, poor pitiful Ali was confused, too high, had a bad childhood, and more excuses.

I really don't like the thought of a young person being sentenced to a life in prison with no chance at parole. The thing is Ali didn't come across as genuinely remorseful. He could still get confused by life's mixed messages and fly into a deadly tantrum again thinking he's justified. Jurors have to feel assured he won't kill again, and I think they'll have doubts. All MOO
​

I agree, the trash can pics I think were him, simply searching for a new profile picture for Anna.
Premeditaion: hard to say which way they'll go He planted that listening device in a bedroom because he hoped to catch her having sex with someone ( he didn't plant it in the L/R) because catching her having sex would be what he needed for truth, that was the bar, nothing less. He never accepted anything less before, So given his history of outbursts, lack of impulse control, and drug use that increases paranoia, did he ever think about what he would do if you heard something from the recording device? did he decrease his drug use to lessen the chance of freaking out, did he put his gun somewhere he couldn't access? was he proactive in any way to show he was trying or recognized he had issues and needed to change?? NO.
it was all within his control (he thought).
The bad upbringing, the mixed messages, the fact that ( his words) he had an abusive childhood, he said no one really liked him, she was the only one that fell in love with him, she was his everything and he felt she betrayed him so he went berzerk because in his mind he was losing everything. I don't think is enough.
He's forgetting one thing, someone else was killed also. Should you get a lesser sentence because someone else was in the wrong place at the wrong time? it's not all about Anna either. He also left a child without parents. What about the impact on her?

His problem is he doesn't think. and he did nothing to be proactive. he had enough history to know he should have been proactive but he chose not to be. The heat of passion to me is a one-time, unpredictable, or unforeseeable event. His eyes should have been wide open.

The remorse is hard to see, because he is so entitled. its his deeply ingrained belief system, I'm sure he regrets killing Anna but that's all.
This trial was about deciding if it was murder or not, he's guilty either way.

 

[Curious Me]

Omg realising he has left a daughter... anyone who enters her circle as she grows up/ becomes a young adult/teen is absolutely in danger if Ali roams the streets free...

This hit me as a likelihood and rang true, @AnyNameIWish. Daughter as a teen, for instance, might not want to see him, he might hear she's got a bad boyfriend, or very likely make Ali feel disrespected. It might slight Ali, and his feeling dissed, well, that can't be tolerated. If he buys you groceries or roses, you better forgive everything he's done and be grateful.

I appreciated that example because it helps to imagine another situation that he wouldn't be able to handle without reoffending. Don't worry though, I don't think he'll be roaming the streets in this lifetime. I just hate to see how people throw their whole lives away, and take others bright futures too. ​

 

[Curious Me]

snipped to reply...So given his history of outbursts, lack of impulse control, and drug use that increases paranoia, did he ever think about what he would do if you heard something from the recording device? did he decrease his drug use to lessen the chance of freaking out, did he put his gun somewhere he couldn't access? was he proactive in any way to show he was trying or recognized he had issues and needed to change?? NO. it was all within his control (he thought)....​

I completely missed the court proceeding where a mental health expert of some degree diagnosed Ali Abulaban as being bipolar. Did you see that part of the trial? I may have to search for it to watch. I'm also wondering what kind of job Ali was doing and how they could afford to live in that swanky apt. bldg. This town is very expensive to live in. Was it his acting career bringing in the money?

First, I want to say that nothing I express in this post has a definite point I'm making. I'm just questioning if it would ever be possible for Ali to have changed at that point. If he could've taken control of his own mind to change the course of what he was going to do and make happen.

Everything you say in your post is what most people would think of his actions or rather his inactions. I agree, if only he could have controlled himself. However, cocaine addiction on top of possible bipolar would make impulse control impossible.

I know you're saying he should've controlled it, got help, stop being a jerk, but that's where his narcissism and self-esteem paranoia spiraled him into escalation. NPD is built into a personality and very few with NPD seek treatment. As you know, they are known to go into narcissist rage. The cycle seems never ending in Malignant Narcissism, but most don't commit murders. .

It would be hopeless to think he could see outside the box of his own self-induced tortured mind. At that point, his cocaine addiction especially was driving him to a mental recklessness. Add his jealousy, possessiveness, controlling traits. Please, none of what I'm saying should be taken as an excuse for killing two human beings.

You are right that he needed to change and he didn't, and now will pay for it for the rest of his life. I'm curious as to if he could've changed without drastic mandatory treatment. Even then, maybe he'd always react aggressively violent.

I know he was discharged from the Air Force for a dv incidence. I don't know why they don't force anger management and long term behavioral therapy, instead of discharging the abuser to go on dv abusing elsewhere.

All my own thoughts and MOO. ​

 

[Sustained]

Sorry if I missed this in the trial but was any drug testing done on AA after the arrest that would substantiate his claims of doing so much cocaine ?

And just saw that deliberations have started ...

 

[Incredholt]

Looks like deliberations done for the day and jurors will be back at it Tuesday.

 

[Curious Me]

I'll continue trying to find the entire Closing Arguments to watch. Disappointed if we can't see the how closings were presented. Jurors will be back on Tuesday morning to continue deliberations. They have three choices in deciding their verdict. ​

Video of 51 seconds of State's Closing
(their closing was an hour+ long)

Prosecutor: Abulaban 'Knew His Shots Would Kill...Motive Was Jealousy'

The prosecutor laid out Ali Abulaban's motive for the shooting in her closing argument in the TikTok Star Murder Trial.

www.courttv.com

Jury deliberations begin in double murder trial of former TikTok star

The 12 jurors now in charge of former TikTok star Ali Abulaban’s convictions have officially begun deliberating. He’s admitted to shooting and killing his wife Ana Abulaban and the man …

fox5sandiego.com

Ali Abulaban double murder trial | Jury begins deliberation

Abulaban faces life in prison without the possibility of parole if convicted for the 2021 killings of his wife Ana, 28, and Ray Barron, 29.

www.cbs8.com

Neither side disputes that Abulaban killed the victims. Instead, the jury will be tasked with deciding whether the killings were intentional and premeditated or committed in the heat of passion.

The distinction will govern whether Abulaban is convicted of first- degree murder and face a possible life without parole sentence or convicted of a lesser charge such as voluntary manslaughter. Jurors began deliberating late Friday afternoon after the attorneys' closing arguments and will resume deliberations next week.

CBS8 News​

Much more info here and some of Defense's closing:
Ali Abulaban double murder trial
Jury begins deliberation

Fox5 KUSI News
Jury deliberating in double murder trial of former TikTok star (video Only article up above)

Jury deliberating in double murder trial of former TikTok star

Closing arguments are now complete in the double murder trial for the former TikTok star Ali Abulaban. Zara Barker has spent weeks in the courtroom and joins us downtown with the closing arguments. STORY: https://fox5sandiego.com/

fox5sandiego.com

 

[ttjo]

and to be clear, Im not even saying he should have, Im saying for the purpose of this trial and the verdict, Im saying he could have and didn't, Not saying he would have been successful, but he didn't show the jury that he tried to be proactive. Nor did he put any safety plans in place. That's important, because you know in the moment he was not going to make good choices. at least he could have shown some awareness that he had issues, instead of focusing on what "she did to him".
He had too many things going on, a traumatic past, bipolar plus excessive drug use. it would have taken professional help and someone helping him stay on track, but with nobody around to support that, no chance. ( IMO)
I mean I get it, Im not only blaming him, he had a lot of crappy things in his life, but he had other options besides murder.
So I'll be surprised if he gets anything less than murder 1.

 

[ttjo]

 

[Curious Me]

Thanks for posting ^^^ it, @ttjo. The sound is not that clear, huh, or it's my speakers. MOO, the Defense's closing statements, though more victim blaming, did give Jurors some understanding of Ali's frame of mind during that time period leading up to the murders and that day. Not sure it'll make a difference. ​

From Fox5 News article previously posted:

During the trial, there were a few times when some videos Ali had recorded yelling at Ana were shown to the jury, that made some of them flinch, seemingly in disgust.

The 12 jurors, made up of 5 men and 7 women, began deliberations late Friday afternoon, and will resume Tuesday morning, after Memorial Day.​

 

[ttjo]

Thanks for posting ^^^ it, @ttjo. The sound is not that clear, huh, or it's my speakers. MOO, the Defense's closing statements, though more victim blaming, did give Jurors some understanding of Ali's frame of mind during that time period leading up to the murders and that day. Not sure it'll make a difference. ​

From Fox5 News article previously posted:

During the trial, there were a few times when some videos Ali had recorded yelling at Ana were shown to the jury, that made some of them flinch, seemingly in disgust.

The 12 jurors, made up of 5 men and 7 women, began deliberations late Friday afternoon, and will resume Tuesday morning, after Memorial Day.​

I think he going to run into trouble with the " what would a reasonable person do"
Im listening to the defense now. so far she is confusing with her explanation of what the law says . She says all you have to prove is that under these circumstances a normal person would have a reaction, not how they would react.
I sure hope the jury asks for clarification, b/c if I was a juror, her just saying that without reading the law would have made me not trust her.

 

[Curious Me]

Info Gathered from the news reports.

Neither side disputes that Abulaban killed the victims. Instead, the jury will be tasked with deciding whether the killings were intentional and premeditated or committed in the heat of passion.​

Jurors will have to decide if it was:

• 1st degree Murder - 25 yrs. to Life
• 2nd degree Murder - 15 yrs. to Life
• Involuntary Manslaughter - Heat of Passion 11 yrs. for each count

 

[Curious Me]

Have a safe Memorial Day Weekend Everyone.

We have a lot to think about until Tuesday, then we'll have to wait some more for jurors to deliberate. Posting things to think about while we wait. I'm going to keep looking for testimony about a bipolar diagnosis, and other testimony we might have missed.​

includes Homicide Detective testimony.
From May 15th news report-- Attorneys present disturbing audio messages sent in prosecution of former Tiktok star

adding title-- Defense Closing Statements

^^^ means Abulaban. Took me awhile to get it.

I'm @Curious Me so... Wonder how much the rents are at the Spire Apts.? Whoa, MOO, some apts. have super high rents. A 2 BR could run $3,300+ a month. How were they affording the rent? JMO, read some unfavorable yelp reviews, so not sure the rent would be worth it. Lots of encampments around there. MOO​

Floor Plans - Spire San Diego

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spiresandiego.com

News report before Deliberation began.

Ali Abulaban double murder trial
Closing arguments underway

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[ttjo]

@Curious Me Wow are those crime scene photos? is that them on the couch?

 

[Curious Me]

@Curious Me Wow are those crime scene photos? is that them on the couch?

I don't think it's their actual bodies. It's where they were found and the positions of the bodies, but not actual bodies. I believe it's like a scene from a computer generated simulation. I don't see any blood.

That's their LR, the mess Ali made earlier throwing the stuff around. Probably it was still on the floor at the time of the shootings and they computer generated bodies placement over the photo.

Did you see how much the rents are? Did they ever mention in the trial how the couple got their monthly income? Was Ali making big money? A job or the TikTok stuff? He said he quit his job at one point-- what job? Did Ana work? They seemed to live a lavish lifestyle going to the clubs, traveling, the cocaine, etc., Call me curious, not nosy. ​

 

[iusedtofloat]

@Curious Me Wow are those crime scene photos? is that them on the couch?

yes, crime scene reconstructive art or however you say it

 

[AnyNameIWish]

@Curious Me

From fox5 san diego: I don't know how much IT jobs pay in SD but likely a decent salary? Then again not sure if characters like these live large on credit.... since a coke habit has gotta be kinda pricey....

Former TikTok star’s mother takes the stand in his double murder trial

ay nine of the double murder trial for the former TikTok star Ali Abulaban included Ali’s mother on the stand, discussing Ali’s abusive childhood, Ali and Ana’s marriage and when Ali called her on …

fox5sandiego.com

Ali’s Workplace

Ali’s former manager, Clifford Goniea, also testified Monday. Goniea used to be his manager in the IT Department at the Naval Air Station on North Island. He said with Ali’s position he had secret clearance level.

Goniea said Ali began working for him in March 2021, and said from March through July, there were no issues with his employment. However, beginning in July 2021, he said he noticed Ali sometimes wouldn’t show up for work some days or not work full days.

Goniea said Ali requested a short-term disability leave beginning in July 2021, and returned in September 2021. He said upon his return, his employment was of normal behavior, but quickly fell back into the old patterns.

The last day Ali came into work on Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2021, when Goniea told him that he needed to come into work everyday or else he would have to report it. On Oct. 20, Ali did not go into work, Goniea said he reported this and the intention was to have Ali terminated.

 

[Curious Me]

...The last day Ali came into work on Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2021, when Goniea told him that he needed to come into work everyday or else he would have to report it. On Oct. 20, Ali did not go into work,...

Thank You so much for finding that, @AnyNameIWish. I had no idea he had such a decent, well-paying job. MOO, I think he's smart and had a future, and he threw all his chances away. The best revenge is moving on and living well. Now, I can understand how they afforded their rent and lifestyle. So, his Last day at work was Oct. 19, and then the shooting occurred on October 21, 2021.

..​

 

[Curious Me]

Mother of TikTok personality testifies in defense of her son in his murder trial

SAN DIEGO — The mother of a social media personality charged with murdering his wife and another man in the East Village testified Monday that she did not believe it when her son co…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Jurors also heard Monday from Dr. Francesca Lehman, a clinical and forensic psychologist retained by the defense, who said she diagnosed Abulaban with bipolar I disorder, complex trauma, alcohol and stimulant dependence, and unspecified personality disorder with borderline, antisocial, and narcissistic features.

Lehman testified that these diagnoses would create “a perfect storm” that she would expect to severely impair a person’s judgment and decision making.

The doctor also referenced multiple 911 calls Abulaban made in 2021, in which he expressed concerns about himself. In one of the calls, a police dispatcher felt Abulaban “was having some kind of breakdown” and referred him to services that could assist him, Lehman said.​