GUILTY CA - Annie Hung 'Kim' Pham, 23, dies from beating outside Santa Ana nightclub

[kimi_SFC]

Of course you are correct that she did not do anything to deserve losing her life that night.

However, prepare yourself for the fact that it will make a difference in this case.
There are many factors at play here. First and foremost, this is Orange County. The same jury pool that just acquitted two cops when their murder of Kelly Thomas was on tape and played for the jury.

Kelly Thomas did nothing to deserve losing his life that night either, but the cops who murdered him, on tape, are walking free.

I am not saying that in this case there will be an acquittal. The accused are not cops so they don't have free reign to murder without repercussion.

But the outcome may be one that some people are going to be very dissatisfied with.

Kim wrote about just this subject. The injustice of the Kelly Thomas case by the jury in Santa Ana was not long before her death. You are sadly correct.

I am preparing myself. I hope there is not a change of venue, and that they are able to fairly pool critically thinking jurors who will view this case fairly. IMO this case is about premeditation. The defense has made their strategy clear: blame the victim. I hope it is not successful again. But you're right, chiban, it would be foolish not to be prepared for the outcome you describe. Sad.

I still pray for #JusticeForKim


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[zwiebel]

Slapping, punching, hair-pulling and clothes-pulling is stuff that happens on a clockwork basis at weeknights among young female clubgoers in many parts of the UK, for some reason. It is very sad and the people who participate end up in court often, and pay the price. As they should. Then they get on with their lives, hopefully having learned a lesson.

Circling someone on the floor, who is not attacking you, and waiting to place kicks to the head?.......that's not the same thing, in my opinion. Is there anyone who doesn't know what a kick to the head can do? Anyone who doesn't recognise when a person is on the floor, that's enough?

With a person on the floor, there is a choice of body parts - shins, bottom, hair, hands. A kick or pull there would produce pain and maybe hurt pride, but it wouldn't result in a murder charge. Sitting on a lightweight like Kim would have been effective too. It's not the first punch anyone should be concentrating on, in my opinion. It's the last kicks. They're the killer ones.

I can't believe club security weren't able to take this in hand before it got so far; where the heck were they? And is it sexist to ask where all the men were, as an 85lb woman was being beaten to death in front of them?

 

[SlowMotionApocalypse]

Slapping, punching, hair-pulling and clothes-pulling is stuff that happens on a clockwork basis at weeknights among young female clubgoers in many parts of the UK, for some reason. It is very sad and the people who participate end up in court often, and pay the price. As they should. Then they get on with their lives, hopefully having learned a lesson.

Circling someone on the floor, who is not attacking you, and waiting to place kicks to the head?.......that's not the same thing, in my opinion. Is there anyone who doesn't know what a kick to the head can do? Anyone who doesn't recognise when a person is on the floor, that's enough?

With a person on the floor, there is a choice of body parts - shins, bottom, hair, hands. A kick or pull there would produce pain and maybe hurt pride, but it wouldn't result in a murder charge. Sitting on a lightweight like Kim would have been effective too. It's not the first punch anyone should be concentrating on, in my opinion. It's the last kicks. They're the killer ones.

I can't believe club security weren't able to take this in hand before it got so far; where the heck were they? And is it sexist to ask where all the men were, as an 85lb woman was being beaten to death in front of them?

<modsnip>

It was a chaotic scene that lasted about a minute. The kicks you are speaking of probably took place in the space of 10 seconds. I go out a lot and when drunk chicks go wild, I just get out of the way. At a punk rock show over the summer I lost some sunglasses hung over my shirt when a fight barreled into me and then past me. Again, less than a minute, no idea who did what but males and females were involved. Not my fight, not my problem. Look back over my shoulder to make sure it stays away from me and go back to watching the band I paid to see.

I've also observed that no matter how strict the security situation is, male security guards can very reluctant to do anything when just women are involved especially if it might entail actually laying their hands on someone.

Probably the only really shocking thing now with a clearer version of events is that it involved women as it's nothing unusual for guys to get killed in bar fights.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Slapping, punching, hair-pulling and clothes-pulling is stuff that happens on a clockwork basis at weeknights among young female clubgoers in many parts of the UK, for some reason. It is very sad and the people who participate end up in court often, and pay the price. As they should. Then they get on with their lives, hopefully having learned a lesson.

Circling someone on the floor, who is not attacking you, and waiting to place kicks to the head?.......that's not the same thing, in my opinion. Is there anyone who doesn't know what a kick to the head can do? Anyone who doesn't recognise when a person is on the floor, that's enough?

With a person on the floor, there is a choice of body parts - shins, bottom, hair, hands. A kick or pull there would produce pain and maybe hurt pride, but it wouldn't result in a murder charge. Sitting on a lightweight like Kim would have been effective too. It's not the first punch anyone should be concentrating on, in my opinion. It's the last kicks. They're the killer ones.

I can't believe club security weren't able to take this in hand before it got so far; where the heck were they? And is it sexist to ask where all the men were, as an 85lb woman was being beaten to death in front of them?

Well said, Zwiebel!

I have no doubt that if any one of us were able to see all parties involved, lined up next to each other, it would be beyond apparent that the accused were far taller, bigger, stronger, and outweighed Kim Pham on that night. However, Kim's demographics are now nothing more than data recorded in an autopsy report. We will have to await the trial to perhaps see comparative images to see what I believe is true - her attackers were/are much larger than their prey (something anyone can see just by looking) :twocents:

Extrapolate the gradient when you consider the actual odds Kim faced that night: two against one.....

I hope more evidence comes to light regarding club security. I posted upthread that 10-15 people tried to come to Kim's aid. In a more recent link, SDA Pino stated the it was the last three kicks between Brito and Zavala from which Kim never regained consciousness and died. Even if that happened in seconds, Kim still suffered, and it does a disservice to minimalize it, IYKWIM? It had to be chaos, but what happened to Kim was inexcusable ( as is anyone who chooses to victim-blame, :moo: )

There's no excuse for what transpired once Kim was on the ground - and the blame has been placed at the feet of Zavala and Brito. The DA has made that point very very clear. I am thankful we have people like him to advocate for victims like Kim Pham. His voice resonates through the clouds of bias and victim-blaming, reminding us that a few seconds of chaos does not excuse the lethal choices of a few to end the life of one.
:moo:

 

[zwiebel]

It seems police still haven't been able to speak to 'Amelia' who was supposed to have been on the floor with Kim at some point, while others were kicking Kim. Which would make it three against one. Yet they know her name...

Do people think she's just refusing to co-operate and police don't have anything to charge her with, so that's it? I can't really understand why she wouldn't co-operate, with one person dead and two on trial for murder. It seems so cold and uncaring, if that's the case.

 

[zwiebel]

I can't help thinking of all the people Kim is healing now, even though she is no longer here. Her organ donations were a wonderful gift from her, and her loved ones who allowed them to happen. Generosity and love shining out at the very worst of times. What a lovely family.

 

[bourne]

Pretty much every news report in the last several days but here's one

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...-death-20140211,0,1723550.story#axzz2tDdMPwCT

Cellphone video shown in court shows Pham throwing what investigators said was the first punch of the fight. Pham is also seen straddling and hitting a woman on the ground.

Reed identified that person as Amelia Avila, a woman whose photograph was distributed by police as a person of interest in the case.

* * * * * *

I have been wondering why Avila still hasn't been arrested but maybe the most they could charge her with is assault [modsnip].

Did authorities get hold of the ENTIRE cellphone taping of what happened during the confrontation or was this fight tape edited like the SUV beatdown in NYC in order to slant the BRUTALIZED, DEAD VICTIM as the aggressor?

Quite honestly, it sounds absolutely absurd that a small, petite Asian girl who weighs barely 85 pounds would purposefully strike the first punch at a GANG of much much bigger/heavier females that looked twice if not three times the victim's size.

My take is that the Asian victim was either pushed, shoved, kicked or physically struck first and the victim returned the punch in self-defense. I also strenuously believe that the aggressor's group member who recorded the tape did so AFTER their friend initially threw the first hit, and that this taping was done for posterity celebrity. They wanted to post it on youtube and laugh about it as idiotic teens often do and gain their five minutes of fame.

Hope they get their just deserts and rot in prison. :jail:

 

[kimi_SFC]

Three words that could've saved Kim Pham's life -- and could save you
- OpEd - LA Times


By Paul Whitefield
February 11, 2014, 1:35 p.m.


Whatever happened to following this sensible advice: “Just walk away”? It’s so simple, so concise -- and in the case of Kim Pham, it could’ve saved her life.

(snip)
What happened outside that nightclub on Jan. 18? Here’s testimony Tuesday from a preliminary hearing into the case, as reported by the Los Angeles Times:
“Officer Roland Andrade said one witness told him someone from Zavala and Brito’s group bumped into Pham, setting off an argument.
“Andrade was told one of the women told Pham, ‘Excuse me,’ using a sarcastic tone. That prompted Pham to start screaming obscenities at the group. The witness said Pham had to be restrained by her friends.

“Zavala and Brito’s group walked away, but then came back twice to confront Pham, 23, who broke free from her friends and threw the first punch, Andrade said the witness told him.

“Pham was kicked in the head by a woman after tumbling to the ground in the scrum, the officer said.”

So there, apparently, is all it was: A stupid argument. Emotions ran high.

People got out of control. Now one person is dead and two others, if convicted, face long prison sentences, their lives to be ruined as well.

And for what? Because someone bumped into someone? Really?

Now, I’m not blaming the victim. Pham didn’t deserve to die. But I am saying that, had she just walked away, or had the alleged assailants just walked away, none of this would’ve happened.

(snip)
Drivers become enraged at some slight on the freeway, leading to road rage. Where is the logic: He cut me off; he deserves to die! Seriously?
I don’t know what happened in Santa Ana. I don’t know why Kim Pham apparently got so upset, apparently threw a punch. I don’t know why her two alleged assailants did what they did.
But I do know this: All concerned should have just walked away. Life is short enough; don’t live it by being foolish.


Much More @ Link

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-kim-pham-beating-death-santa-ana-20140211,0,814052.story#axzz2tmm6Ia4k

As more details of this night come to light, I believe we will learn the sad truth of this case. The defendants will not be able to hide behind the curtain of victim-blaming forever. This Op-Ed shows that Zavala and Brito went back to confront Kim, which led to the physical confrontation. We still haven't heard whether or not anyone has a video of the full physical confrontation, so I personally am not completely convinced Kim made first contact. The possibility exists that someone could have touched her first (put hands on her) before she "threw the first punch." The fact of the matter is, WE DON'T KNOW! All witnesses haven't come forward, and the only people who are making statements are the defense. They have a clear cut motive for making damaging statements against a victim who cannot speak for herself. Therefore, I take every word they say with a boulder of salt. :moo:

The author is correct in his advice. All parties could have walked away. This applies most poignantly to Zavala, Brito, and to the third party, Amelia/Emilia. The moment Kim was on the ground, at their feet, the threat was neutralized. They had a decision to make - each and every one of them. Instead, two of them made a choice to deliver a series of three fatal kicks to Kim Pham's head, rendering her unconscious, and eventually brain dead. I am awaiting reports that any of the three parties made attempts to stop each other, but so far, that has yet to be reported. I am hoping to hear there was some semblance of humanity from the perpetrators of this crime against Kim. In my eyes, the ultimate crime occurred from the moment she was on the ground - defenseless. What they did to her was indefensible. Their lawyers have an uphill battle to prove otherwise, and they know it. Unfortunately, their desperation shows in their willingness to drag Kim through the mud in an effort to save themselves. I just hope the public doesn't fall for it.

Kim, and her amazing family, deserve better than this. Their pain and loss has already been tremendous. Unfortunately, they have a long road left to travel.

May #JusticeForKim prevail.....
:rose:

 

[fran]

Crosby-beating witness: Asian gang members involved

SANTA ANA – The boyfriend of a woman who was in a bumping incident that apparently prompted a melee outside a Santa Ana nightclub leading to the death of 23-year-old Annie Kim Pham told police that he was beaten by Asian gang members who were with Pham.

The statement alters the entire case, defense lawyers for two women charged with murdering Pham said Thursday. They have asserted that Vanesa Zavala, 25, and Candace Brito, 27, both office workers from Santa Ana, acted in self defense and with Asian gang members reportedly involved in the fight they say it means that the women’s actions were justified.

“It changes everything,” said Zavala’s attorney Ken Reed. “Self defense is always an objective analysis of the reasonableness of a person’s actions.”

“Anybody who doesn’t think that this completely changes this case and what occurred that night is completely out of their mind,” Brito’s lawyer Michael Molfetta said. “You can understand (Brito and Zavala’s) concern. And, there’s not a scintilla of evidence that any of the Hispanic group (in the fight) had anything to do with gangs.”

Santa Ana police officials said they do not comment on ongoing investigations.

full article at link ......... http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pham-602717-gang-magana.html?page=1

 

[chlban]

Crosby-beating witness: Asian gang members involved

SANTA ANA – The boyfriend of a woman who was in a bumping incident that apparently prompted a melee outside a Santa Ana nightclub leading to the death of 23-year-old Annie Kim Pham told police that he was beaten by Asian gang members who were with Pham.

The statement alters the entire case, defense lawyers for two women charged with murdering Pham said Thursday. They have asserted that Vanesa Zavala, 25, and Candace Brito, 27, both office workers from Santa Ana, acted in self defense and with Asian gang members reportedly involved in the fight they say it means that the women’s actions were justified.

“It changes everything,” said Zavala’s attorney Ken Reed. “Self defense is always an objective analysis of the reasonableness of a person’s actions.”

“Anybody who doesn’t think that this completely changes this case and what occurred that night is completely out of their mind,” Brito’s lawyer Michael Molfetta said. “You can understand (Brito and Zavala’s) concern. And, there’s not a scintilla of evidence that any of the Hispanic group (in the fight) had anything to do with gangs.”

Santa Ana police officials said they do not comment on ongoing investigations.

full article at link ......... http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pham-602717-gang-magana.html?page=1

Yeah, not real surprised at the way this is heading. There are some very, very strong racial currents that run through Orange County. We just don't generally like to talk about them being so upscale and educated and all.However unlike many other counties in the country it is not African Americans that "bother" us.

Unless they end up with a mostly Vietnamese jury, which I am sure the defense will fight tooth and nail, I see any kind of a conviction in this case slipping away. Unless they get a change of venue which I doubt. If they do get some type of "compromise" conviction it will be about as satisfying as those two low lifes that all but murdered Brian Stow.

 

[kimi_SFC]

OC Senior DA's response is this:

"“My role is to present evidence in court; it is not to respond to every statement or newly-created defense that the attorneys float to the media,” said Deputy District Attorney Troy Pino, who’s prosecuting Zavala and Brito."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pham-602717-gang-magana.html


With all due respect, it is no more fair to label Kim's friends as gang-members at this juncture than it is to call the defendants gang-affiliated. Anyone who has been following this case knows this has been happening since this story broke. IMV, Reed and Molfetta are doing their jobs, defending their clients by any means necessary. When it comes to character testimony, who will the jury believe?

Kim's character has been painted in a tremendously positive light. It is defense attorney 101 to attack the victim, and their associates, in the court of public opinion. I hope Emilia and her boyfriend Magana have witnesses to corroborate their statements, because it will take a LOT to overcome the video and witness statements that are already on record.

Yes, this case is complicated, and race will play a part in justice in this case, from voir dire to the verdicts. I just hope the truth doesn't get lost in the process.
:twocents:

 

[kimi_SFC]

Kim Pham beating: Suspects back in court Friday
Ed Joyce | February 20th, 2014, 3:12p

(snip)
On Friday, they are scheduled to be charged with two additional counts each: assault with force likely to produce great bodily injury and a sentencing enhancement of inflicting great bodily harm. If the women are convicted, the enhancement means the judge can impose a longer prison sentence.

(snip)
Santa Ana police say Zavala and Brito were among a group of five people leaving the nightclub when the altercation occurred between them and Pham’s group, who'd been waiting to enter the club.

But just who started the fight outside The Crosby is in dispute.

During the preliminary hearing, testimony from police investigators cited a witness who told them the fight started after Pham started swearing at a group of people, which included Zavala and Brito. The witness also said that Pham threw the first punch. But friends who were with Pham outside the nightclub say three women, including Zavala and Brito, attacked Pham after they bumped into her.


(snip)
Police are still seeking to interview a third woman, identified in court testimony as "Amelia," who they say is the person wrestling on the ground with Pham when she is kicked.

http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/02/20/42347/km-pham-beating-arraignment-friday-possible-trial/

 

[mister happy]

Crosby-beating witness: Asian gang members involved

SANTA ANA &#8211; The boyfriend of a woman who was in a bumping incident that apparently prompted a melee outside a Santa Ana nightclub leading to the death of 23-year-old Annie Kim Pham told police that he was beaten by Asian gang members who were with Pham.

The statement alters the entire case, defense lawyers for two women charged with murdering Pham said Thursday. They have asserted that Vanesa Zavala, 25, and Candace Brito, 27, both office workers from Santa Ana, acted in self defense and with Asian gang members reportedly involved in the fight they say it means that the women&#8217;s actions were justified.

&#8220;It changes everything,&#8221; said Zavala&#8217;s attorney Ken Reed. &#8220;Self defense is always an objective analysis of the reasonableness of a person&#8217;s actions.&#8221;

&#8220;Anybody who doesn&#8217;t think that this completely changes this case and what occurred that night is completely out of their mind,&#8221; Brito&#8217;s lawyer Michael Molfetta said. &#8220;You can understand (Brito and Zavala&#8217;s) concern. And, there&#8217;s not a scintilla of evidence that any of the Hispanic group (in the fight) had anything to do with gangs.&#8221;

Santa Ana police officials said they do not comment on ongoing investigations.

full article at link ......... http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pham-602717-gang-magana.html?page=1

How could this completely change the case? These melodramatic lawyers don't miss a trick. News Flash: Asian gang members were involved in the fight (so that justifies Pham being fatally kicked in the head when she was down). Yeah, this changes everything. NOT.

 

[chlban]

How could this completely change the case? These melodramatic lawyers don't miss a trick. News Flash: Asian gang members were involved in the fight, so that justifies Pham being fatally kicked in the head when she was down. Yeah, this changes everything. NOT.

Of course defense lawyers are melodramatic. Nothing new there. I suppose it's good there is some outrage on this site, but in real life, here behind the Orange Curtain, I don't know one single person who is outraged about this case. There was a ton of outrage about Kelly Thomas. There was a fair amount of outrage about the high school cheating scandal in Corona Del Mar, mostly outrage that the students were in trouble for cheating, but still outrage.

Now you have the defense throwing out accusations about "Vietnamese gang members". It is going to work, IMO.

<mod snip>

 

[fran]

Attention Please!

Let's not make this about race, ok. I don't want to close this thread. Let the def try to make it about gangs. If there were no gangs involved, it will be revealed in court.

This is a very important case, IMHO. This is about a group of people ganging up on one person and murdering her. Nothing justified what they did to this poor young woman. Nothing!

I lived in OC up to a few years ago. It's a beautiful place to live with lots of good people. I enjoyed raising my family there and still have one daughter residing there.

Let's pray for justice for Ms. Pham.


fran

 

[kimi_SFC]

Attention Please!

Let's not make this about race, ok. I don't want to close this thread. Let the def try to make it about gangs. If there were no gangs involved, it will be revealed in court.

This is a very important case, IMHO. This is about a group of people ganging up on one person and murdering her. Nothing justified what they did to this poor young woman. Nothing!

I lived in OC up to a few years ago. It's a beautiful place to live with lots of good people. I enjoyed raising my family there and still have one daughter residing there.

Let's pray for justice for Ms. Pham.


fran

Thank you Fran :hug:
#JusticeForKim


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[kimi_SFC]

OC Senior DA Pino states,
"There were peripheral fights that occurred away from this fight and there were some statements about maybe gang slogans being uttered there, but that has nothing to do with this particular altercation between the defendants and the victim."

Kareen Wynter, KTLA: "The DA added it doesn't matter who started this fight, even if it were gang related, it doesn't change the circumstances of this case."


Reporting live from Orange County Superior Court, today in Westminster at 6:06 p.m.:
http://social.newsinc.com/media/json/69017/25648144/singleVideoOG.html?type=VideoPlayer%2F16x9&videoId=25648144#.UwhMCwuKn6M.twitter

via
http://ktla.com/2014/02/21/2-plead-not-guilty-to-new-charges-in-kim-pham-beating-death-as-gang-affiliation-alleged/#axzz2u22R7Ht4
The next proceeding is a charging conference is scheduled for Monday.
#JusticeForKim
:rose:

 

[zwiebel]

Crazy. it doesn't matter what may or may not have been going on elsewhere. The question is, did two much heavier woman need to 'self-defend' themselves against one very small unarmed woman, by kicking her to death when she was prone on the floor? It sounds like a ludicrous argument to me.

I wonder if defence would be allowed to put someone of Kim's exact weight and height beside the two suspects in court? That would speak volumes, I think.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Crazy. it doesn't matter what may or may not have been going on elsewhere. The question is, did two much heavier woman need to 'self-defend' themselves against one very small unarmed woman, by kicking her to death when she was prone on the floor? It sounds like a ludicrous argument to me.

I wonder if defence would be allowed to put someone of Kim's exact weight and height beside the two suspects in court? That would speak volumes, I think.

I could not agree with you more zwie. This case is about evidence. The video that shows the fatal kicks that rendered Kim irrevocably brain dead, after she was already on the ground by two women who were easily taller and much heavier than her.

Sixty-one inches and eighty-five pounds is incredibly petite. I'll have to ETA her BMI but I'm certain she was underweight. Zavala might be a normal BMI bordering overweight, and Brito is overweight. No offense intended. I have lost 125 pounds since my early 20s, and speak from experience.

My point is, the outsized Kim, and everyone had adrenaline factored in. Then, we have 2-3 against one. Kim was outsized and outnumbered, and it really is NO surprise we have this outcome, when these defendants chose not to stop fighting, and this became a murderous beating.

Pure physics, which led to the end of a life.

I hope DA Pino will be able to make the point as you mentioned. Perhaps one or more of the witnesses will be of similar stature, and he will be able to get it on the record that way. The difference will be undeniable.


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[mister happy]

Come to think of it, 85 pounds at a height of 5'1" is kid size. I do hope the prosecution drives hammers this point in during trial.