CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #10

[Reasonable & Just]

That's what I thought was the most likely explanation. That they saw a photograph and misinterpreted what she was wearing. You might have to look closely to distinguish a black bikini from a black bra and pants, if the latter were plain in style.

I may be misunderstanding, but are you thinking that law enforcement saw photos and just assumed she was hanging out in her undies rather than the more likely scenario that it was a bikini? Because that would be odd, if the photos were anything like other photos we've seen of her.

If that's the suggestion, I personally don't see that as likely - if anything, one would first assume the photo was of a woman in a bikini, then find out she was multi-tasking underwear.

Why does it matter? Not sure that it does, but I don't like not having an accurate description of her clothing. And yes, she could have just been using undies as a bikini. Or, she could have been in underwear for some other reason when she was photographed, or when she disappeared. It's all very murky and I wish we at least had some clarity here and there.

 

[al66pine]

@Nikynoo Thanks for your post w the link and excerpts from CA statute.
(This became pretty straightforward to me, once I added red notes in your post below to keep track of who does what & when, because my wonky brain works better w outline style format. Altho I left the text itself unchanged, I messed about w bolding, underscoring, & font. My apologies, if anyone finds it confusing.)
That ^ said, I think the first couple sentences of your post summarized it perfectly.

Hi @10ofRods , yes, I think both Arizona and Cali will have cases, see https://post.ca.gov/Portals/0/post_docs/publications/Missing_Persons_Investigations.pdf . However, as the DOJ website still shows that the case is with the San Bernardino Office, it would appear that this office is still investigating, alternatively, it just could take some time to update the data.

PC §14205(c) requires the agency taking the initial missing persons report [San Bernardino County CA sheriff] “to -----
----- promptly notify” and
----- send copies of the report to ---
---------- the department that has jurisdiction over the missing person’s resident address [Bullhead City AZ PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff?] and
---------- to the agency where the missing person was last seen [again San Bernardino County CA sheriff].
It is recommended that the initial investigation should be handled by the agency of jurisdiction where the missing person was last seen [San Bernardino County CA sheriff]. This includes -----
----- entry of the missing person into the [CA] Department of Justice’s MPS (Missing Persons System) and
----- coordinating a bilateral investigation with the agency of the missing person’s residence [Bullhead City AZ PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff?].

Once this agency [San Bernardino County CA sheriff] has exhausted all investigative leads, the case should be transferred to the agency that has jurisdiction over the missing person’s residence [Bullhead City AZ PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff?]. This would include -----
----- making the proper computer notation with the [CA] Department of Justice as to the agency responsible for the investigation.
----- Any future leads should be routed to the agency with jurisdiction based on the missing person’s residence [Bullhead City AZ PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff?].

It is imperative that all agencies involved in the missing person investigation work closely together, enhancing the probability of locating the missing person.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The California DOJ has a missing persons unit. It's not unusual for them to assist in a missing person case.

The Missing and Unidentified Persons Unit in the California Department of Justice assists law enforcement and criminal justice agencies in locating missing persons and identifying unknown live and deceased persons through the comparison of physical characteristics, fingerprints and dental/body X-rays.

By making photographs of missing persons available, we seek to aid in the identification and recovery of missing persons. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, one in six missing children are recovered as a direct result of someone recognizing their photo and notifying authorities. We also offer resources on this website for locating missing persons and safeguarding your children.

California Missing Persons

 

[Nikynoo]

@Nikynoo Thanks for your post w the link and excerpts from CA statute.
(This became pretty straightforward to me, once I added red notes in your post below to keep track of who does what & when, because my wonky brain works better w outline style format. Altho I left the text itself unchanged, I messed about w bolding, underscoring, & font. My apologies, if anyone finds it confusing.)
That ^ said, I think the first couple sentences of your post summarized it perfectly.

yes, @al66pine , your notes are perfect!

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes, but we don't know if they made any earlier stops before Hidden Hill Road.. It's quite feasible. Or they might have spent some time eating/drinking before going for the walk.

according to the VIs sister there was a stop (at the 360 photo place).

 

[Nikynoo]

As California's top-level investigative law enforcement agency & legal department, CA DOJ has statewide authority with over 4700 employees (approximately 1100 being state attorneys) and a budget of $1,047,982,000 (1 billion).[2] The department has a long history within the state, and its law enforcement personnel have a reputation of being some of the best in the country. Besides its support of the California Attorney General, the department is frequently mentioned in the newsmedia for (among other activities):

• Its assistance to federal law enforcement agencies, for example, CA DOJ Special Agents working alongside their federal counterparts on cases and while federalized on several different task forces.
• Its forensic laboratory work that processes evidence from multiple agencies throughout the state.
• Its statistics, for example, on weapons sales in California.[3]
• Its assistance to local law enforcement agencies, for example, on cases too large or complex for local agencies to handle alone, or use of CA DOJ databases.[4]

End
Source Wiki

My point is they are number 1 in law enforcement and prosecution... If they are involved .. This is bigger then a lost or missing person.
Jmho

Apologies, I am confused. Is the DOJ involved in this case ? If so, how do we know this?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Apologies, I am confused. Is the DOJ involved in this case ? If so, how do we know this?

She's listed as a missing person on their website. That's it as far as I know. Link below.

Barbara Thomas

 

[al66pine]

Is CA DOJ "Involved" in This Case?

As California's top-level investigative law enforcement agency & legal department, CA DOJ has statewide authority .... Besides its support of the California Attorney General, the department is frequently mentioned in the newsmedia for (among other activities):

• Its assistance to local law enforcement agencies, for example, on cases too large or complex for local agencies to handle alone, or use of CA DOJ databases.[4]....

My point is they are number 1 in law enforcement and prosecution... If they are involved .. This is bigger then a lost or missing person. Jmho

@cazador Thanks for post. bbm sbm
Acknowledging the laurels heaped on CA DOJ, but not sure about CA DOJ's involvement in this case.
IIRC, I have not read/heard about any dept personnel taking part in searches or investigation. I could have missed it. What I do specifically recall:
1) The dept maintains CA DOJ MisPers database, one database referred to in bulleted point in ^.
2) BT's profile was entered in that database.

@cazador or anyone, recall any reports/info about CA DOJ involvement in the case, besides BT's profile/info being entered into CA MisPers database? (Notwithstanding the Great Bikini or Underwear Debate of 2019, j/k)

 

[al66pine]

The California DOJ has a missing persons unit. It's not unusual for them to assist in a missing person case.
California Missing Persons

@RANCH Thanks for your helpful post. From above link to CA DOJ:
"The Missing and Unidentified Persons Unit in the department's Division of California Justice Information Services, consists of the following four components:
Physical Identification ...., Dental Identification ...., Missing Children's Clearinghouse ...., and Missing Persons DNA Database ...."
From description under ea category, does not sound like the MisPers unit ordinarily provides boots on the ground. Seems more like assistance w ID after a remains are found. jmo.
But the unit may offer more than that, IDK.

 

[k-mac]

Snipped for focus.

Ahem, that is entirely untrue.
No one at WS has accused anyone in this case. Possibly elsewhere.

Most of us have merely pondered what was said by him in msm.

But everyone can voice their opinion and all of us are free to post without any telling us how to comment.
So all is good.

We are basing this case on what was stated in msm.
RT claimed that LE told him his poly was deceptive.
It may not have been -- as RT told the news reporter interviewing him that he hadn't slept.

WS's have continually given him the benefit of the doubt; to (most) of our credit.
We may be a nosy bunch , but we have all been fair to the spouse about this case.

In many missing cases, LE themselves will focus on the last person to see the missing .... relative or not.
Until they are cleared.

No one has been cleared or LE would have said so.

And LE's word is good enough for me.
Until we at WS hear from THEM that she has been abducted (like RT said she was) or that LE feels she actually became lost on a clearly paved trail with the RV in sight --- we need to ask questions so Barbara can be found.


BBM

^^^ Ita.
Thanks for your insightful post, @MsBetsy !

It helps to read an entire post and not cherry pick.

The VI is verified; and can post what his observations are.
Nothing wrong with that.
It helps to not denigrate his opinions as he himself has known Barbara's husband for years, and understands him far better than we ever will.
This may help to crack this case !
MOO

great post lietkynes

it is interesting posters here who don't know RT personally can dismiss the observations of a relative who knows these people personally and insinuate they are biased.

imo it is disrespectful to our VI, who has stated many times he is very uncomfortable saying negatives things about RT.
he also has said many kind and loving things about his experiences with him.

moo

 

[Gigi3]

I really hope we get some information soon! With all the discrepancies about the clothing, I absolutely feel that the picture of her with the hat and bikini top that is being distributed is NOT from that day. If it were, surely all they would have to say is “ this is the picture of Barbara taken that day and THIS is what she was wearing”.
I was undecided before about the picture, but now it seems to ME that the picture of her is not from that day. As always this is just MY opinion and observation.
Hoping that Barbara will be found soon.

 

[Jim_M]

I really hope we get some information soon! With all the discrepancies about the clothing, I absolutely feel that the picture of her with the hat and bikini top that is being distributed is NOT from that day. If it were, surely all they would have to say is “ this is the picture of Barbara taken that day and THIS is what she was wearing”.
I was undecided before about the picture, but now it seems to ME that the picture of her is not from that day. As always this is just MY opinion and observation.
Hoping that Barbara will be found soon.

BBM and ITA.

 

[K9Enzo]

The California DOJ has a missing persons unit. It's not unusual for them to assist in a missing person case.



California Missing Persons

Spot on.

I know of a missing, presumed deceased, hiker listed on the same DOJ site in CA. They are considered a missing person per LE. Foul play not suspected.

 

[kay74]

I feel sorry for her son the most. It's hard being a stepchild. I know, I was one because of the death of my father before I was born. He must miss her to no end.

 

[al66pine]

when I said he has no reason to lie, I was talking about our VI

@deugirtni Thanks for ^ post, which corrected my mis-reading, thinking your no reason to lie comment was about RT. I apologize, sorry, all my fault. But I still stand by my earlier post as it applies to accuracy of RT's stmts. My earlier post w new heading is below.

Accuracy of RT's Stmts? Flawed Memory? Bad Sense of Time?
For sake of discussion, let's say---
--- in interviews w LE, MSM, & BT's fam, & his own, RT has told the truth as he recalls it and
--- he has no reason whatsoever to lie about the events that day.

Does ^ that preclude possibility that his memory was inaccurate? Maybe his memory is inaccurate ---
--- generally, in a broad sense, day to day, Activities of Daily Living.
--- only relating to stressful events earlier that day, in daze of separation from BT, and in & out of sweltering heat, etc.
--- just had blanks, which he filled in, circumventing references to poor judgments he made, if any.

Or maybe he has a phenomenally bad sense of time, like some of us who think an hour has passed, when only ten min's have gone by, or sometimes, conversely think an engrossing movie wrapped up in in a half hour, not the 100 min running time.

Not saying he deliberately lied/misrepresented what he knows happened.
But maybe he did intentionally fabricate a distorted, deceitful account of events that day, for LE, et al.
Does not necessarily translate into RT having caused BT's disappearance (or death).
All ^ jmo.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

caves?

 

[MsBetsy]

caves?

The only cave I think we know of is the one that RT went back to check. Imo

 

[LAhiker]

The only cave I think we know of is the one that RT went back to check. Imo

And IIRC, that was more like a space under some leaning rocks than an actual cave. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

No one has said that the 360 photo was taken on another stop, except people here on WS. No VI, no VI’s sister said where it was taken.

The desert trails look straightforward enough, until you’re lost.

People like my SO and I do everything possible to get somewhere that other people don’t frequently go. Gets tougher every year, but it’s one kind of vacation we are willing to work hard for. That’s one reason I relate to Barbara. No Colorado River for me. Ever.

They weren’t camping at that turn-out.

The hike they were supposed to go on (according to RT) was 2 miles round trip, so maybe an hour but they were rock hunters and photographers, so easily could be 2-3 hours.

There’s no evidence they actually walked 2 miles.

And I will continue to point out that if in fact RT wanted police to investigate cars in a parking lot miles away from Kelbaker/HH, he’s very strange, has really odd intuitions about things, but is of course entitled to his beliefs.

Maybe he also wanted them to investigate everyone in Needles who passed by the convenience store. The people in the parking lot (why would they follow this older couple in their 5th wheel??) would not have seen Barbara in her bikini and with her beer...so, it’s a very strange thing to say (whereas if the cars were visible from a rise near where the Thomases parked...that makes him seem less odd).

Thousands and thousands of people go missing in the US every year and there’s no way that MSM (Dateline or podcasts, whatever you think it means) is going to cover all of them. Or even a small portion of them. It helps if you’re younger than Barbara, which I’m hoping will eventually become an angle.

Average search area of a missing persons search is about 1-2 square miles. In the Mojave, it’s on the lesser side, but I do believe they covered nearly 2 square miles. 1 square mile would be ½ mile in each direction from the point the person was thought to have gone missing. I believe they searched more than that - but not more than 2 square miles.

Brits and other cultures drink warm beer.

I think discussions on Barbara’s drinking (with her paltry beer) are very close to victim blaming and yet, every thread it pops up. Over and over. Along with suggestions that everywhere that could be searched has been searched. She was a vibrant, active woman who could likely have covered an entire mile in 15 minutes. RT is an elderly man who likely didn’t set a stopwatch when he last saw his wife.

Thing is, there is way too much that we don’t know.

And the CA DoJ is the official repository for all missing persons cases in California; so SBCSO is following procedure. No surprise there. She’s missing.

A 2 square mile search area is a lot to manage. That would cover .75 miles (approximate) from where Barbara disappeared. I suspect they did a bit more, in 9 days. But think about it - she easily could have covered 1 mile in 15 minutes when RT was busy with his camera. Unlikely she went back toward the granite, but there are three other directions. And I think she probably got to the RV but what happened next, I wouldn’t even guess.

Facts. They are lacking.

 

[10ofRods]

according to the VIs sister there was a stop (at the 360 photo place).

This is not what the VI (or sister) said. IIRC. This is embroidering the case, to its detriment. MOO.

Unless you mean “the same stop that is referenced by RT in the 911 call.” You make it sound like there’s another stop besides the convenience store and Kelbaker/HH road. Surely that’s not what you mean. If you do mean that, what’s the source?

Obviously, they had to stop the truck and get out to take a picture. And we all know that RT and the truck were present at Kelbaker/HH roads when LE arrived. There is no other documented stop that I know of - but if there is, let’s document the source.

If they did climb the boulders next to the Granite Mountains, and that’s included in the 1 mile out hike, that took more time. Trust me. Climbing an additional 200-500 feet in hot weather takes some time. Each person has to find their way in between crevices. Then, they admire the view, then they take a picture. I’d allow an entire hour for that .25 mile climb up and back, plus viewing and picture.

If taking more photos and collecting rocks, more time.

At any rate, there’s no evidence I’ve seen (or seen written by our VI) that says they had another stop out there. Only LE would know (from a digital footprint) and they aren’t telling us what they know.