CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #10

[MimosaMornings]

JMO - Perhaps rehashing is occurring because there has been no new information, quiet RT, no Missing in America group clamoring for answers, no family member even in the same state.

(I’m not sleuthing family members, just making a logistical statement).

And this is my opinion only...If this was my mother I would want to go look for myself to see where she went missing. I would get a cheap flight on Spirit, Amtrak or Greyhound - do a crowdfunding, bake sale, car wash or sell something. Especially if I was her only child and her partner would not communicate with me.

 

[AliceInPain]

My first time here in a while as well and I thought the EXACT same thing!! Still about the bikini and the beer?? But in cases like these where there isn't a whole lot of new information coming, you tend to go in circles. Wash rinse and repeat. I'm truly shocked that she has not been located still. I thought by this point I'd be seeing an arrest at least.

I heard a local or someone on the team saying the search was mainly on the side of the road where RT said he lost track of Barbara. I wonder if a volunteer team would be allowed to go in and search the other side now temps are kinder?
Not exactly responding to your post here, it just got me thinking...

 

[cazador]

Lost?

@cazador bbm sbm Thanks for your post, but I'm not tracking.
Are you saying "being lost" as in----
--- she could not orient self, could not find her way back to trail? What diff does her clothing make? or
--- other ppl looking for her could not find her? Again, what diff does her clothing make? Presumably, any of the following - RT, LE, SAR, others - could have found her whether she was in bikini, business attire, or arctic parka & gear.

More coffee to wake my wonky brain?

Lost.. Missing.. Not Anywhere..
She is not going to wander very far if everything is scratching her legs, bugs biting her bare skin and sun melting her down.. Her clothing protection was non existent and that was my only point..

 

[deugirtni]

Protection from the sun and skin damage. Agree.

Maybe BT felt the same and took precautions to protect herself with sunscreen, as an example. Maybe, she doesn't feel the same way as you on the subject.

I have no clue if BT made good or bad decisions. My comment was to point out it's not really unusual (in my experience) to see someone hiking in something similar to a bikini.

(If I recall correctly, you stated: Hmmm I wonder if that is the only time she wears a bikini is when they are going to be in the river. I don't know anyone who would wear a bikini in the desert on a hike)

Many people when they step out for a short day hike don't anticipate an emergency, such as a severe injury or getting lost, as an example. If this were to happen - what means do you (not you personally) have to get help and keep yourself alive until a rescue? What you carry is your life line potentially. Based on the information released I was VERY concerned for BT when she went missing and SAR was actively conducting searches for her. If the information released was accurate, she most likely only had what she was wearing and 12 oz. of fluid. This is a harsh environment. We also have no idea what kind of condition she was in when she set off that day, how hydrated she was, what she ate, etc. To me, this information matters as well. Probability of survival, the bigger picture based on several factors.

Some members here question if that's really what she was wearing to begin. Some people just can't wrap their minds around it because they would not do the same, ever. Some say this appears to be normal for her and others, even if they would not do the same. The list goes on really.

My only thought on clothing is .. Walking in a that particular environment. You better stay on the beaten path. No rock climbing or off road walking.
So that brings me to her being lost.. Impossible in that type clothing..

Other then that having LE agencies list clothing differently on their web sites noting her as a missing person is very odd
jmho

Yes, there is something def wrong with this picture. While BT may have enjoyed camping or picnicing or just leisurely relaxing in the desert setting in a bikini with lawnchairs and beer and supplies nearby, that is different from taking a 'walk', and a 'walk' is different again from a 'hike'. Seeing as how BT was experienced in this setting, and enjoyed it, and *also* perhaps enjoyed hiking in the desert, she would have known all of the pitfalls of being there, wearing practically nothing, in the mid-morning to noon or even to mid-afternoon for those that believe that timeframe instead, with no mode of communication, and nothing but 'a beer' for hydration. While an inexperienced person may not have understood the risks, I'm sure that Barbara did.. she seems to be portrayed as being intelligent, she wasn't new to this.

Unless perhaps she was travelling in her bikini and they stopped off for a mid morning break to have a beer and a very short walk just to look at some fascinating irresistible rock formation on their way to their camping destination.. but then if so, how did that turn into a 2 or 4 hour escapade where Barb ends up having to go back to the trailer *alone* without her partner, without the water they brought, without the mode of communication they brought, and after *reportedly* about FOUR hours? This is why, to me, the 12 noon time given to BT's relatives makes much more sense than the time of 2;30pm reported to police. But if it was 2:30pm, then all the more reason to be questioning it under these particular circumstances, imho. And if THAT much time had passed since they'd been walking in the sun, why wasn't her husband more concerned about getting her some shelter when she obviously wanted to head back, and why would he let her wander ahead without him, given the time he says they'd been out? It just doesn't make any sense. imo.

 

[LietKynes]

Lost.. Missing.. Not Anywhere..
She is not going to wander very far if everything is scratching her legs, bugs biting her bare skin and sun melting her down.. Her clothing protection was non existent and that was my only point..

A good point !

And the discussion about the clothing was aimed at two theories :
Victim-blaming by RT since his description included an alleged abduction (his words, not mine) ; because she was , you know, by the road with a bikini and holding a beer.....

The change by the two msm sources for what exactly she was wearing -- bikini and red hat or black underwear and white hat. No mention at all about the type or style of boots. Nor any mention of a can or container.
Surely RT must know at least that much ?
So no one really knows what to look for in their searches.

 

[LietKynes]

why wasn't her husband more concerned about getting her some shelter when she obviously wanted to head back, and why would he let her wander ahead without him, given the time he says they'd been out? It just doesn't make any sense. imo.

BBM
Snipped for focus

Most of us wonder about that !!
Something's rotten in the state of Denmark ; or AZ.
How did she just vanish ... and she may not have been wearing only a bikini.
We're not any further in this case than at the beginning.
Wonder why ?

 

[10ofRods]

I heard a local or someone on the team saying the search was mainly on the side of the road where RT said he lost track of Barbara. I wonder if a volunteer team would be allowed to go in and search the other side now temps are kinder?
Not exactly responding to your post here, it just got me thinking...

It's public land and people are on it all the time. I don't think anyone could be stopped from going out to look, as individuals or as a group of friends or acquaintances.

From the SAR pictures, it looks like only the roadside was searched along Hidden Hills. I don't think we have a clear statement about the other side of the road, where RT says he last saw her. If we take his 1/4 mile from the road estimate to be accurate, then that's at the intersection of two trails, one a bit bigger than the other (and that one leads to the car, although it would be very easy to confuse the two trails at first). The trails kind of go up and down over undulating territory (it's been years since I was there, so I did use Google's topo function) and the RV would have been visible some of the time, not all of the time. If she walked in the wrong direction, it might have been a while before she noticed (if she noticed). Also, we don't know if the RV was parked toward the back of the pull-out (I would assume so, for safety) or nearer to the road.

Did Barbara herself know that she was only about 5 minutes from the RV? Did they discuss that? If they did discuss that, did either have a watch? Did Barbara pay attention to each turn of the trail as they walked out to the sandstone outcroppings (and maybe to the granite ones - we don't know)? Did she start along the spur trail with RT toward his final picture destination or did they actually part ways at the intersection? The way I understand RT, it sounds like she walked a small ways and then sort of turned (hit the intersection area), so perhaps she walked back to the intersection by herself. If she thought they'd been on a straight path the whole time (which they had probably been until RT decided to go down to the dry wash), she might have taken the southbound trail rather than the eastbound one.

We don't even know for sure where RT last saw her. The part about the dry wash was tweeted early on by a couple of reporters and it was first reported as a "dry lake" and I have no idea where the reporting party got that information (nor have they responded to me with that information). That, plus the error in early reports placing her disappearance spot 20 miles north of the I-40, made me think they were near Kelso Dunes, but as we now know, LE met RT at the intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hills.

My source is a bit outdated (and I can't find it right now) but various SAR and international missing persons documents say that the average search area for a ground search is 1.0-1.7 square miles (but that probably includes successful searches). 1.0 square miles would have taken the searchers only 1/2 mile from that intersection. I think they went further (we can see them atop the main boulder formation - but that's only about 3/4 of a mile from the intersection, maybe even less, I should check).

So much we don't know. We need someone who can communicate with RT just to get a few more basics. Both here and on FB, his side of the family have fallen silent.

 

[CSIDreamer]

My only thought on clothing is .. Walking in a that particular environment. You better stay on the beaten path. No rock climbing or off road walking.
So that brings me to her being lost.. Impossible in that type clothing..

Other then that having LE agencies list clothing differently on their web sites noting her as a missing person is very odd
jmho

I brought that up awhile back. Walking into cholla with that much bare skin would basically propel you away from it.

 

[kay74]

I heard a local or someone on the team saying the search was mainly on the side of the road where RT said he lost track of Barbara. I wonder if a volunteer team would be allowed to go in and search the other side now temps are kinder?
Not exactly responding to your post here, it just got me thinking...

That's what I have been saying all along. Who's to say she didn't cross the street looking for rocks while waiting for RT to arrive.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, there is something def wrong with this picture. While BT may have enjoyed camping or picnicing or just leisurely relaxing in the desert setting in a bikini with lawnchairs and beer and supplies nearby, that is different from taking a 'walk', and a 'walk' is different again from a 'hike'. Seeing as how BT was experienced in this setting, and enjoyed it, and *also* perhaps enjoyed hiking in the desert, she would have known all of the pitfalls of being there, wearing practically nothing, in the mid-morning to noon or even to mid-afternoon for those that believe that timeframe instead, with no mode of communication, and nothing but 'a beer' for hydration. While an inexperienced person may not have understood the risks, I'm sure that Barbara did.. she seems to be portrayed as being intelligent, she wasn't new to this.

Unless perhaps she was travelling in her bikini and they stopped off for a mid morning break to have a beer and a very short walk just to look at some fascinating irresistible rock formation on their way to their camping destination.. but then if so, how did that turn into a 2 or 4 hour escapade where Barb ends up having to go back to the trailer *alone* without her partner, without the water they brought, without the mode of communication they brought, and after *reportedly* about FOUR hours? This is why, to me, the 12 noon time given to BT's relatives makes much more sense than the time of 2;30pm reported to police. But if it was 2:30 4:30pm, then all the more reason to be questioning it under these particular circumstances, imho. And if THAT much time had passed since they'd been walking in the sun, why wasn't her husband more concerned about getting her some shelter when she obviously wanted to head back, and why would he let her wander ahead without him, given the time he says they'd been out? It just doesn't make any sense. imo.

These are indeed the central questions and it keeps me awake at night, sometimes. We do have data from found persons that show some of their decisions were not tip-top (either in organizing their walk or in how they got lost) but in this case, we have some serious errors by a fairly experienced desert dweller. I think she viewed this excursion as a short walk, for a few snapshots. The missing time issue may mean that they stopped more than once, but by now, LE would be aware and would have organized more searches. So, perhaps they hung out under the awning?

Many people have decided to separate on hikes and walks, when that turns out later to be very bad for one of them. The classic book, Death in Grand Canyon, has quite a few of those (including one involving a boy aged under 13 whose family members allowed him to separate from each of their differently paced groups...)

 

[CSIDreamer]

That's what I have been saying all along. Who's to say she didn't cross the street looking for rocks while waiting for RT to arrive.

Didn't @sroad say they searched both sides?

 

[deugirtni]

These are indeed the central questions and it keeps me awake at night, sometimes. We do have data from found persons that show some of their decisions were not tip-top (either in organizing their walk or in how they got lost) but in this case, we have some serious errors by a fairly experienced desert dweller. I think she viewed this excursion as a short walk, for a few snapshots. The missing time issue may mean that they stopped more than once, but by now, LE would be aware and would have organized more searches. So, perhaps they hung out under the awning?

Many people have decided to separate on hikes and walks, when that turns out later to be very bad for one of them. The classic book, Death in Grand Canyon, has quite a few of those (including one involving a boy aged under 13 whose family members allowed him to separate from each of their differently paced groups...)

The thing is though, no extra stop-off, nor leisurely relaxing under the awning *before* their walk/stop was mentioned to family when RT was relaying the details of the day (which according to family was indeed detailed), nor was anything like that relayed during his interview, etc. And another point is, if indeed the time she started heading back on her own was 2:30pm, and they had set out at 8:15am from their home.. when did they have lunch/bite to eat? I'm imagining they would have wanted/needed to eat maybe 4 hours after they'd left home? But instead, according to perceived timeline (imho), they stopped off for a quick walk on their way to somewhere else, and instead, stayed for 4 hours and neverminded about having lunch. I'm actually starting to get peeved when I think about this story.

 

[LietKynes]

So much we don't know. We need someone who can communicate with RT just to get a few more basics. Both here and on FB, his side of the family have fallen silent.

Snipped for focus
BBM

That seems inconsiderate if the daughters were friends with Barbara.
Maybe they weren't, though -- and barely knew her ?
In which case this would not concern them, and if they weren't on friendly, speaking terms-- her disappearance is not really their problem.
We don't know what went on before her vanishing, but the silence seems wrong.
Just my .02.

At least total strangers are worried and many of us wouldn't hesitate to search out in that desert if we lived close enough.

 

[Nerissa]

I'm beginning to think BT was there, with RT at that spot (only other theory is that in the past they were, thus the 'memories' of that trip used as 'props')......

Something happened - & then something was done with her.

I'll leave it there

JMO

 

[Stripehaven]

That's what I have been saying all along. Who's to say she didn't cross the street looking for rocks while waiting for RT to arrive.

Who’s to say they even took a walk? And until LE confirms publicly that they believe they have photos proving BT was there at all, I remain skeptical of the story and timeline.

 

[10ofRods]

Didn't @sroad say they searched both sides?

Yes, and the tweeted photos show the same thing. However, we don’t know how far they went off HH road on the east side. Probably not more than a quarter of a mile (on the view that if Barbara walked that road to, say, take a potty break, she wouldn’t have gone too far away - but there is less cholla on that side..)

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped for focus
BBM

That seems inconsiderate if the daughters were friends with Barbara.
Maybe they weren't, though -- and barely knew her ?
In which case this would not concern them, and if they weren't on friendly, speaking terms-- her disappearance is not really their problem.
We don't know what went on before her vanishing, but the silence seems wrong.
Just my .02.

At least total strangers are worried and many of us wouldn't hesitate to search out in that desert if we lived close enough.

Well, on the Monday after she disappeared, one of the stepdaughters stepped in to give an interview and appear on Barbara and Robert’s behalf. Also, of the family pictures shown of Barbara holding babies or hanging out with kin, it’s RT’s daughters (maybe just the one daughter, not sure) who are in those pictures.

I think there are now three WSers (two for sure) who have gone out there and a relative of mine who lives out that way is planning to go for a walk next time she drives Kelbaker Road. WS is amazing in its care about total strangers, and there are many other people who truly do care.

Of course, we don’t know whether any of RT’s relatives have gone back to look. They surely may have.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I heard a local or someone on the team saying the search was mainly on the side of the road where RT said he lost track of Barbara. I wonder if a volunteer team would be allowed to go in and search the other side now temps are kinder?
Not exactly responding to your post here, it just got me thinking...

People are free to go there whenever they wish. The Mojave Nat'l Preserve is open to everyone. However, now is not a good time. It is cool, but we've had two monsoons and we're expecting more. It's dangerous to be out on the desert with all the lightening and flash flooding. I've getting flash flood alerts on my phone during every monsoon, and I'm about 25 miles away from the site. I think her remains are probably scattered by animals and storms. It's so sad.

 

[MsBetsy]

JMO - Perhaps rehashing is occurring because there has been no new information, quiet RT, no Missing in America group clamoring for answers, no family member even in the same state.

(I’m not sleuthing family members, just making a logistical statement).

And this is my opinion only...If this was my mother I would want to go look for myself to see where she went missing. I would get a cheap flight on Spirit, Amtrak or Greyhound - do a crowdfunding, bake sale, car wash or sell something. Especially if I was her only child and her partner would not communicate with me.

Pretty much all we have done has been rehashing since the second week she went missing.

We never really had an official update from LE since then.

And yes, if it were my mom, I would be doing everything I could to find her and gathering all my friends or contacts to help. At the very least I would want to go to the place she went missing from and explore the area myself.

IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Who’s to say they even took a walk? And until LE confirms publicly that they believe they have photos proving BT was there at all, I remain skeptical of the story and timeline.

The VI said that LE confirmed to him that they have pictures that show she was there.
I don't think they would have told him that if it was not true.

IMO