CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #10

[LietKynes]

The VI said that LE confirmed to him that they have pictures that show she was there.
I don't think they would have told him that if it was not true.

IMO

BBM
Wonder what was in those photos that LE are keeping to themselves ?
At this point, it can't hurt to reveal the photos. Imo.

 

[al66pine]

Was There One Fatal Factor that Day?

....bare skin and sun melting her down. Her clothing protection was non existent...

@cazador Thx for your post explaining. Just jumping off this ^ bbm phrase, not discussing her clothing choices.

Ppl posted about ---
--- 1. Temps at the turnaround that day. Some say mid to high 90's F; others say 100, 105, 110F+. Regardless full sunlight can increase the feel of heat up to 15 degrees. So per heat index*, seems like 105 or 120F?
.
--- 2. Distance of that walk/hike, ranging from virtually none, up to 2-4 miles.
.
--- 3. Speed of walk/hike. IIRC estimates have been as high as 4-5 mph, as low as 1 mph or less w gander-factor. At 2-4 mph, would they would sweat profusely and dehydrate more quickly? IME, yes. W or without beer.
.
--- 4. Their walking/hiking experience, saying they were "experienced." What does that mean?
--------- Mall walking?
--------- Walking the dog in early morning & late evening to cover a few blocks on Bullhead City sidewalks?
--------- Equivalent of US Army Ranger School, Desert Phase Training?**
.
W just one mistake, big or little, ppl, even experienced hikers, prepared, well-equipped ppl - maybe Marine Boot Camp grads - can run into trouble, incur injuries or become sick, and even die. Can happen on a trail known or unknown to them, a well marked trail, overgrown path, or in severe weather conditions, etc. A person or couple might hike a certain trail dozens of times w no problems at all, but w one differing factor, might meet their end there.

IDK what the temps were, or walking distance or speed, or their walking/hiking experience.
.
Wondering if that day at that turnout, it was just too damn hot for her. Maybe decision to walk/hike outside was a fatal mistake, IDK. {{ETA: Just a possibility}}.
{{ETA2: added bolding}}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* ".... . Since heat index values were devised for shady, light wind conditions, exposure to full sunshine can increase heat index values by up to 15°F. Also, strong winds, particularly with very hot, dry air, can be extremely hazardous.".
Heat Index chart at https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png
.
** Ranger School - Wikipedia

 

[cazador]

There is an abandoned quartz quarry on the other side of the road and back towards hwy 40.
But still a long way for a walk for BT to find rocks.
I have included it in the drone search itinerary for November.
My thought, it could be a place for body placement. If found later it could be used as excuse..
RT.. "OH MY !! " She must have walked Over there without my knowing... Anyways..

 

[cazador]

Was There One Fatal Factor that Day?

@cazador Thx for your post explaining. Just jumping off this ^ bbm phrase, not discussing her clothing choices.

Ppl posted about ---
--- 1. Temps at the turnaround that day. Some say mid to high 90's F; others say 100, 105, 110F+. Regardless full sunlight can increase the feel of heat up to 15 degrees. So per heat index*, seems like 105 or 120F?
.
--- 2. Distance of that walk/hike, ranging from virtually none, up to 2-4 miles.
.
--- 3. Speed of walk/hike. IIRC estimates have been as high as 4-5 mph, as low as 1 mph or less w gander-factor. At 2-4 mph, would they would sweat profusely and dehydrate more quickly? IME, yes. W or without beer.
.
--- 3. Their walking/hiking experience, saying they were "experienced." What does that mean?
--------- Mall walking?
--------- Walking the dog in early morning & late evening to cover a few blocks on Bullhead City sidewalks?
--------- Equivalent of US Army Ranger School, Desert Phase Training?**
.
W just one mistake, big or little, ppl, even experienced hikers, prepared, well-equipped ppl - maybe Marine Boot Camp grads - can run into trouble, incur injuries or become sick, and even die. Can happen on a trail known or unknown to them, a well marked trail, overgrown path, or in severe weather conditions, etc. A person or couple might hike a certain trail dozens of times w no problems at all, but w one differing factor, might meet their end there.

IDK what the temps were, or walking distance or speed, or their walking/hiking experience.
.
Wondering if that day at that turnout, it was just too damn hot for her. Maybe decision to walk/hike outside was a fatal mistake, IDK. {{ETA: Just a possibility}}.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* ".... . Since heat index values were devised for shady, light wind conditions, exposure to full sunshine can increase heat index values by up to 15°F. Also, strong winds, particularly with very hot, dry air, can be extremely hazardous.".
Heat Index chart at https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png
.
** Ranger School - Wikipedia

I agree totally ... No matter what it was just to damn hot to be out there..
Your a genius by the way ..

 

[CSIDreamer]

Was There One Fatal Factor that Day?

@cazador Thx for your post explaining. Just jumping off this ^ bbm phrase, not discussing her clothing choices.

Ppl posted about ---
--- 1. Temps at the turnaround that day. Some say mid to high 90's F; others say 100, 105, 110F+. Regardless full sunlight can increase the feel of heat up to 15 degrees. So per heat index*, seems like 105 or 120F?
.
--- 2. Distance of that walk/hike, ranging from virtually none, up to 2-4 miles.
.
--- 3. Speed of walk/hike. IIRC estimates have been as high as 4-5 mph, as low as 1 mph or less w gander-factor. At 2-4 mph, would they would sweat profusely and dehydrate more quickly? IME, yes. W or without beer.
.
--- 4. Their walking/hiking experience, saying they were "experienced." What does that mean?
--------- Mall walking?
--------- Walking the dog in early morning & late evening to cover a few blocks on Bullhead City sidewalks?
--------- Equivalent of US Army Ranger School, Desert Phase Training?**
.
W just one mistake, big or little, ppl, even experienced hikers, prepared, well-equipped ppl - maybe Marine Boot Camp grads - can run into trouble, incur injuries or become sick, and even die. Can happen on a trail known or unknown to them, a well marked trail, overgrown path, or in severe weather conditions, etc. A person or couple might hike a certain trail dozens of times w no problems at all, but w one differing factor, might meet their end there.

IDK what the temps were, or walking distance or speed, or their walking/hiking experience.
.
Wondering if that day at that turnout, it was just too damn hot for her. Maybe decision to walk/hike outside was a fatal mistake, IDK. {{ETA: Just a possibility}}.
{{ETA2: added bolding}}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* ".... . Since heat index values were devised for shady, light wind conditions, exposure to full sunshine can increase heat index values by up to 15°F. Also, strong winds, particularly with very hot, dry air, can be extremely hazardous.".
Heat Index chart at https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png
.
** Ranger School - Wikipedia

I've came to look forward to your posts during this case. Well thought out and thought provoking. Thanks.

 

[K9Enzo]

@al66pine I love that you called out Army Rangers. RLTW

Experience (IMO) means different things to different people. It’s subjective. You make a good point.

Then you have being experienced and being prepared. I think you can be both or just one. Some people may disagree.

I have zero experience with the desert. Snowy terrain & backcountry wilderness areas, I’m decent. Would I follow RT & BT into this environment based solely on what’s been discussed in these threads? I don’t think so.

 

[LietKynes]

Ok I am having doubts now after reading @al66pine 's excellent post.

It's looking like possibly RT himself was not out there in that desert, from the drop off at the dog kennel until he called 911 at 3:26 pm.

Or the gas station stop where he was observed by an employee and the security cameras.
Did he/they hike out there in that killing heat --from let's say they arrived there after the ice stop -- until he called about an hour after she 'vanished' ?

Driving in the truck he would have had A/C.
The facts show that nearly anyone would struggle to walk or hike in that area outdoors from the time they arrived until the 911 call.

So were they observed by someone , anywhere else ?

It could be that LE are not releasing the photos taken that day as she was wearing something else. and not the bikini/black underwear.
I don't expect LE to tip their hand. They've been quiet so far.

 

[PommyMommy]

Didn't @sroad say they searched both sides?

Yes. While sroad was there, they searched the east side of the road with K9's.
AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM
Wonder what was in those photos that LE are keeping to themselves ?
At this point, it can't hurt to reveal the photos. Imo.

I'm not sure if they can release the photos without RT's permission.
And if they are evidence they probably would not release them either.
Maybe Robert can, though.

 

[cazador]

Many of us have worked in research and searching on many cases over the years ..
I have never seen a "Missing Person Case" with such silence from LE ...
They should be sharing Everything they can to help find a missing person..
So yes.... This one must be way bigger then just a lost soul.
jmho

 

[al66pine]

Experience and/or Preparedness?

@al66pine I love that you called out Army Rangers. RLTW
Experience (IMO) means different things to different people. It’s subjective. You make a good point.
Then you have being experienced and being prepared. I think you can be both or just one. Some people may disagree.
I have zero experience with the desert. Snowy terrain & backcountry wilderness areas, I’m decent. Would I follow RT & BT into this environment based solely on what’s been discussed in these threads? I don’t think so.

@K9Enzo . Thanks for your post. Good point to distinguish experience & preparedness.
Altho different from ea other, I think there are wide ranges* within each.

If you were asked to do a 2-4 mi hike at that turnout in temps like that, is there any factor you can think of that would change your mind? What if it 70F instead?

-----------------------------------------------------
* Hiking Experience Continuum =
Walks to mail box-- mall walking-- 5k fun runs--- marathons--- thru-hikes Appalachian Trail, then yo-yos.
Appalachian Trail - Wikipedia

 

[Chingaling]

Well, sunscreen with an SPF of at least 30 protects skin from about 98% of the sun's UV rays.

I'm sure Barbara was familiar with how to protect her skin from getting burned.

IMO

If you are in Death Valley with exposed skin for extended periods of time you're getting burned no matter what SPF you use.I live in KY and we can't even combat UV with 30 SPF,let alone Death Valley.

 

[MsBetsy]

If you are in Death Valley with exposed skin for extended periods of time you're getting burned no matter what SPF you use.I live in KY and we can't even combat UV with 30 SPF,let alone Death Valley.

Well, she didn't look too sunburned in any of her pictures, and as far as I know didn't have any type of skin cancer, so she must have done something right.

They probably expected to be back from their walk in less than two hours, so it would not have been an extended amount of time anyway.

Considering what ended up happening, I would think it's the least part about the case that's concerning.

IMO

 

[Chingaling]

I agree totally ... No matter what it was just to damn hot to be out there..
Your a genius by the way ..

Let alone to have that much exposed skin.

 

[Chingaling]

Well, she didn't look too sunburned in any of her pictures, and as far as I know didn't have any type of skin cancer, so she must have done something right.

They probably expected to be back from their walk in less than two hours, so it would not have been an extended amount of time anyway.

Considering what ended up happening, I would think it's the least part about the case that's concerning.

IMO

HUH 2 hrs. is enough to burn to a crisp,even here in KY.So mam,I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.I'm not buy what ya selling.

 

[al66pine]

That Day, Where Was RT Before 911 Call?
That Day, Was BT at Desert Turnaround at All? In Truck/RV? Did She Walk/Hike?

Ok I am having doubts now after reading @al66pine 's excellent post.
It's looking like possibly RT himself was not out there in that desert, from the drop off at the dog kennel until he called 911 at 3:26 pm.
Or the gas station stop where he was observed by an employee and the security cameras.
Did he/they hike out there in that killing heat --from let's say they arrived there after the ice stop -- until he called about an hour after she 'vanished' ?
Driving in the truck he would have had A/C.
The facts show that nearly anyone would struggle to walk or hike in that area outdoors from the time they arrived until the 911 call.
So were they observed by someone , anywhere else ? ....

@LietKynes bbm Thanks for your post and the compliment.
Have there been other posts along this line, RT was not in desert until calling 911? No, AFAIK.

So, my questions are up top. LietKynes? Anyone? Thx in adv.

 

[MsBetsy]

HUH 2 hrs. is enough to burn to a crisp,even here in KY.So mam,I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.I'm not buy what ya selling.

I'm not selling anything.

You stated that her wearing a bikini was not a good decision and that most older women would not wear a bikini in the desert.

Barbara did and if she was that worried about getting sunburned I'm sure she would have done something about it. That's all.

 

[Jo in Calif]

If you are in Death Valley with exposed skin for extended periods of time you're getting burned no matter what SPF you use.I live in KY and we can't even combat UV with 30 SPF,let alone Death Valley.

I agree with you on the Death Valley heat and Bullhead City for that matter.
She did not go missing from either of those two places and the temps she went missing were considerably cooler.
I will admit 101/104 are not fun.

 

[LietKynes]

The hairs on my neck stood up.
What if neither of them were out there as long as we've all been assuming ?
That opens up other possibilities.

As far as not buying what someone has been selling.... IMO.
Just b/c LE were shown photos does not mean they were taken at that precise day and time.

If LE feel everything is fine and open and honest -- why are they keeping the only other evidence besides the staff at the kennel and the neighbor whose camera caught them leaving in the a.m. ?
Were they in the desert the whole time ?

It's hard to imagine either of them out walking from the time they arrived until the emergency call.
So did the RV show signs of someone having eaten lunch, napped ,etc.?

Vehicle gps should show where they were and where they traveled that day --- unless it'd been tampered with.
Does anyone know if a non-mechanical person can do this ?

 

[cazador]

RT is a certified aircraft powerplant mechanic ..