CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #10

[pburt]

I find it quite suspicious that she was in a bikini and was drinking a beer. Anyone who lives in AZ, and especially Bullhead City, knows when you go in the sun it will burn you to a crisp if you don't have proper clothing on. Not only that but she should know you never, ever hike in the summer without plenty of water and she was drinking a beer? And to not have any supplies and no cell phone? Hmmmm... And how does one disappear in the desert? Where are there corners? Very suspicious.

<modsnip>

 

[LietKynes]

Yikes!

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I don't think poster meant "mobilize" the way the military prepares or for active service or deploys people. That doesn't make any sense.

It was in reference to the conversation.

So to mobilize as to move the conversation from beer and a bikini to what we can do to help find Barbara.

Or to come together to achieve something.

I still cannot find any post where someone said they were going to search themselves, or organize a search, or "mobilize" a search party to the desert. I took it to be more of a suggestion.

IMO

It might have appeared that way, but at least twice that poster referred to the 'fact' that they were "right here", as in the location of the Mojave.
So it looks like we're to assume they are searching themselves in the desert or attempting to gather a group of strangers to search.
As another member pointed out-- it's foolhardy if one is unfamiliar with the desert in general, regardless of the lower temps.

 

[MsBetsy]

It might have appeared that way, but at least twice that poster referred to the 'fact' that they were "right here", as in the location of the Mojave.
So it looks like we're to assume they are searching themselves in the desert or attempting to gather a group of strangers to search.
As another member pointed out-- it's foolhardy if one is unfamiliar with the desert in general, regardless of the lower temps.

Oh, wow, it's interesting how different people interpret things. I had never even thought the poster was literally searching or actively gathering volunteers. I thought they meant they were in the general area when they used the word "here."

That's why I was confused by all the posts saying, be careful, make sure you tell someone where you are!, etc.

Someone suggested she actually go talk to RT. Scary.

I kept searching for the post that indicated or person who was assumed to be running around in the desert at the moment imagining them with their spy glasses wearing a big floppy hat or something.

But I never found it.

Anyway this is the perfect example of communication and how things can be interpreted differently based on the words people use. Then when someone tells the story to someone else and that person tells someone else, it's even harder to know what the original persons exact words and meaning was.

We've spent hours and weeks here debating what certain comments meant, and the different ways people have interpreted them. No wonder we can't come to a conclusion.

IMO

 

[LAhiker]

Thanks @LAhiker, bbm=my responses

Hi @Nikynoo, while your bolded responses are easy to read, when I hit reply both my comments and your responses disappear. I guess WS doesn't do quotes of quotes. So I've copied and pasted the whole thing here. And I'm afraid I'm going to do the same thing, thus propagating the problem. My responses are in red.

----------------
I realize that this is a speculative timeline. My concern about it is that at a number of points, possibly with the goal of allowing ample time, this timeline assumes that things took longer than is likely. It also inserts two elements into the timeline that have not been strongly attested to.

1. This timeline has them leaving the Circle K/gas station at 9:30am. I believe the VI said they were at the gas station at 9am; that would be more consistent with an 8:15am start. It sounds like RT was a bit impatient when getting the ice; I doubt that that stop took more than 15 minutes. I agree 15 mins at gas station, so they would leave gas station at 9.15 instead of 9.30?
Yes.

2. This timeline assumes that the 360 photo occurred and was separate from the walk at Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. While that's certainly possible -- I think it was implied by the VI's sister in her recollections of RT's call, that would raise other questions: Where was the hill and parking lot? I wish I knew! Why did RT imply that the cars in that lot might be relevant to BT's disappearance? Because it fits with his abduction theory RT's comments might make more sense if the 360 was from one of the rocky "hills" on the walk fromKelbaker/Hidden Hill. Then the parking lot would be the one .7 mile to the north do you have a link to a map for this? would be interested to see this and its relevance to where RT said BT disappeared would be more clear.Agreed

Here's a link to the post where the lot was first mentioned. Rough coordinates for the bend at the road with the lot are 34.8036730, -115.6118710.
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

Here's my post with some more info about the lot:
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

Here's a post by @iscaremyself, who visited the lot recently.
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

Also, while it's possible that the VI's sister misheard what RT said about the timeline, a timeline with the 360 photo stop possibly being separate in the morning would assume she correctly heard the part about the 360 but misheard several things she remembers hearing RT say about the timeline., No, not really, the timeline given by VI's sister fits better with the 2-30 time that the noon time, everyting else is consistent IMO While that's possible, it has the effect of picking some things from her text while discounting others. I disagree, see my earlier post where I give my interpretation of the text message, but happy to be corrected.

I read over your comments about the sister's text. They're interesting but don't think the text necessarily fits better with the ~2:30pm time that RT told media that BT disappeared. Just because she remembers RT saying it got very hot (and because the hottest part of the day is later) does not mean that it didn't get very hot earlier in the day. It could've gotten even hotter later.

3. This timeline adds a full hour for the preparation and consumption of lunch. AFAIK, lunch is never mentioned in RT's comments to the media or to BT's family. at most a 2 minute interview with media, and a summary of a 'long' conversation in the text. We dont know whether RT mentioned Luch (or breakfast for that matter. Just because it is not in the text, does not mean that RT didn;t mention it in his call (and of course the reverse is also possible) Logically, it is likely that they had lunch somewhere if they left home at 8.15While it's possible that they had lunch, this addition has the effect of stretching out the timeline.

It's certainly possible that they had lunch before their walk, but it's also possible that they went for their walk before the time that they would've had lunch. For instance, if they got to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill by 11am, they might've planned to have lunch after their walk.

All of these additions have the effect of minimizing unaccounted-for time by moving the end of the timeline closer to a time which fits with RT's statements to the media that he searched for an hour before calling 911,so, are we saying that the timings that RT has given the media and quite likely LE are false? If this was the case, would this not result in an arrest? though it doesn't quite bring it that far. Perhaps your goal was to figure out what they could have been doing that accounted for all that time, if his account was correct? Actually, trying to tie Media, VI info etc together.

Even if what RT said to the media and LE was inaccurate or false, LE might not be able to prove it. Speaking generally, I think that if LE is investigating possible serious crimes, they're less likely to arrest someone for false statements unless they think the person might be a danger to others if they weren't in custody.

If so, it might also be interesting to make a timeline with a less generous estimate of the time at the Circle K, without an extra stop for the 360 photo, and without a long stop for lunch. Without those extra elements, the timeline moves closer to what the VI's sister remembered RT as saying, in which the unaccounted-for time might come between when RT said he last saw BT and when he called 911. I get your point, but by her own admission, she did say her memory wasnt that great, this statement together with the media times makes me think she misremembered , perhaps she misheard mid afternoon, for noon?

I agree that she could have misheard the time, but also think that RT could have said different things to different people, for whatever reason.

JMO

I think @Kapua made one of these quicker timelines, which was then discussed by myself and others. Thanks, will check that out.
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

JMO

 

[Micheline]

@Micheline, where are you now? Who are you trying to mobilize?

Wherever you are, please do not go searching in the desert alone. As a hiker, I can say that it's alway better to hike or search with a trustworthy buddy who you know and who shares your goals. It is better that a search be postponed until it can be properly organized than that you risk your safety searching alone, especially in a harsh environment such as the Mojave and especially if you are unfamiliar with the area.

JMO

I am close to San Bernadino, to the area where BT went missing.

I never had the intention to search on my own, nor am I trying to mobilize locals.

A day ago I posted, since the extreme heat is gone and so many people here are interested in this case, BT having family and friends, why not form a group, contact volunteers, people with drones, realise some profisory headquarter and do something instead of discussing a bikini day after day.

<modsnip>

Thanks for your concern, no worries.

 

[k-mac]

seems the post is metaphoric for us here at websleuths and not actually for those 'right there." at the mojave's.

@Micheline most of us reading your posts aren't " right there."
however since you are 'right there" maybe you could contact the locals ,people with drones and 'do something' as you suggested.
couldn't hurt??​

moo

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see a post where anyone said they were searching.

Micheline's post suggested that people take action, now that it's not as hot as it has been, and maybe organize groups or speak to volunteers, designate a headquarters and get together and start searching again for Barbara. Friends, family, locals, whomever.

I don't know of anyone mentioning specific details about searching the area but I may have missed that particular post.

Well, that's the trouble with speed reading, I suppose.

However, members here have been taking action since the beginning of this case. Requests have been made to volunteer search organizations, drone operators, a Facebook group was created, many of us have reached out to reporters, local organizations, etc., and a number of members have discussed a search. Not sure why the sudden emphasis on this... MOO

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I am close to San Bernadino, to the area where BT went missing.

I never had the intention to search on my own, nor am I trying to mobilize locals.

A day ago I posted, since the extreme heat is gone and so many people here are interested in this case, BT having family and friends, why not form a group, contact volunteers, people with drones, realise some profisory headquarter and do something instead of discussing a bikini day after day.

Ever since people are claiming I am lying about the weather, and do not believe that I am where I say I am.

Thanks for your concern, no worries.

I see, and I'm sorry (and glad) that I misunderstood. But it's good to hear that it's finally getting cooler, and hopefully her husband is organizing searches or reaching out to people who can.

 

[happyday]

I think when a poster suddenly starts saying they are “right there” when that’s never been mentioned before and talking about the weather in the area and how other people just want to talk but she’s trying to mobilize people, that poster should expect questions. Especially when it’s all super vague and there’s no follow up. Did that poster travel to the Mohave to search for Barbara? That’s kind of a big deal and I would expect pictures or details.

I think it’s great if Micheline has actually traveled to the Mohave. I would love some pictures! @Micheline, did you go there specifically for Barbara? What is your plan?

 

[MimosaMornings]

I misunderstood the post also, my apologies.

I think if there was a relative of Barbara’s that was actually in the city where she lives/disappeared advocating for searches, being visible and trying to get the media’s attention/spotlight would help. RT remains quiet and MS remains firmly in Indiana.
JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I am close to San Bernadino, to the area where BT went missing.

I never had the intention to search on my own, nor am I trying to mobilize locals.

A day ago I posted, since the extreme heat is gone and so many people here are interested in this case, BT having family and friends, why not form a group, contact volunteers, people with drones, realise some profisory headquarter and do something instead of discussing a bikini day after day.

Ever since people are claiming I am lying about the weather, and do not believe that I am where I say I am.

Thanks for your concern, no worries.

Are there many missing posters around the area?

 

[LAhiker]

Exactly.
I am sure the small group who allegedly interprets differently, knows this, they are just making a mockery out of a suggestion to actually do something instead of rehashing the same ol' bikini discussion day after day.

Moreover they claim I am lying about the weather, while everyone can check for themselves.

Mojave National Preserve Weather Forecast, CA - WillyWeather

Hi @Micheline, thanks for doing this and for finding this forecast. I think this one (for the Mojave National Preserve) is probably the most relevant. IMO, the CNN one may be more relevant to the city of San Bernardino, which (for those unfamiliar with the area) is around 100 miles to the southeast as the crow flies, on the other side of some mountains.

I agree that weather channels don't lie in that they don't deliberately misrepresent the forecast. One of them I like is Weather.com, which will often let one get a forecast for a particular zip code and which has hour-by-hour forecasts. However, weather channels are sometimes wrong -- sometimes the forecast for my zip code gives a 0% chance of rain for this hour when it is in fact pouring.

I'm glad you don't intend to search on your own. What is your plan?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Hi @Micheline, thanks for doing this and for finding this forecast. I think this one (for the Mojave National Preserve) is probably the most relevant. IMO, the CNN one may be more relevant to the city of San Bernardino, which (for those unfamiliar with the area) is to the southeast, on the other side of some mountains.

I agree that weather channels don't lie in that they don't deliberately misrepresent the forecast. One of them I like is Weather.com, which will often let one get a forecast for a particular zip code and which has hour-by-hour forecasts. However, weather channels are sometimes wrong -- sometimes the forecast for my zip code gives a 0% chance of rain for this hour when it is in fact pouring.

I'm glad you don't intend to search on your own. What is your plan?

Thanks for this, I'm thousands of miles away so it's all v alien territory to me.

Does that mean there are mountains between SB city and the area where Barb is said to have disappeared?

 

[LAhiker]

Thanks for this, I'm thousands of miles away so it's all v alien territory to me.

Does that mean there are mountains between SB city and the area where Barb is said to have disappeared?

Yes. The Preserve where she is said to have disappeared (as well as the city of San Bernardino) are both within San Bernardino County, which has an area of over 20,000 square miles. Wikipedia says it's the largest county in the country.
San Bernardino County, California - Wikipedia

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is has its headquarters in the city of San Bernardino and has many stations and substations. I wonder whether the sheer size of the county and the department contributes to why they seem to be relatively unresponsive, closemouthed, and not inclined to give updates?

If I understand Wikipedia correctly, the SBCSD has 3700 employees of which 2000 are sworn officers. Though that's a large number, I wonder whether they're understaffed for the size of the county. That said, many of the cities within the county have their own municipal police departments, so maybe they do have enough people after all.
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department - Wikipedia

JMO

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

Oh, wow, it's interesting how different people interpret things. I had never even thought the poster was literally searching or actively gathering volunteers. I thought they meant they were in the general area when they used the word "here."

That's why I was confused by all the posts saying, be careful, make sure you tell someone where you are!, etc.

Someone suggested she actually go talk to RT. Scary.

I kept searching for the post that indicated or person who was assumed to be running around in the desert at the moment imagining them with their spy glasses wearing a big floppy hat or something.

But I never found it.

Anyway this is the perfect example of communication and how things can be interpreted differently based on the words people use. Then when someone tells the story to someone else and that person tells someone else, it's even harder to know what the original persons exact words and meaning was.

We've spent hours and weeks here debating what certain comments meant, and the different ways people have interpreted them. No wonder we can't come to a conclusion.

IMO

It's a good thing that "different people" interpret things differently. That diversity is what leads to expanded thought and perspective.

Regarding, "we can't come to a conclusion": I suspect it's by way of the same reason why LE hasn't solved this case: not enough evidence, and we have much less than LE might know.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yes. The Preserve where she is said to have disappeared (as well as the city of San Bernardino) are both within San Bernardino County, which has an area of over 20,000 square miles. Wikipedia says it's the largest county in the country.
San Bernardino County, California - Wikipedia

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is has its headquarters in the city of San Bernardino and has many stations and substations. I wonder whether the sheer size of the county and of the department contributes to why they seem to be relatively unresponsive, closemouthed, and not inclined to give updates?

If I understand Wikipedia correctly, the SBCSD has 3700 employees of which 2000 are sworn officers. Though that's a large number, I wonder whether they're understaffed for the size of the county. That said, many of the cities within the county have their own municipal police departments, so maybe they do have enough people after all.
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department - Wikipedia

JMO

Wow that is huge. More than a fifth of the entire UK! That does put it into perspective in terms of search areas.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I misunderstood the post also, my apologies.

I think if there was a relative of Barbara’s that was actually in the city where she lives/disappeared advocating for searches, being visible and trying to get the media’s attention/spotlight would help. RT remains quiet and MS remains firmly in Indiana.
JMO

Certainly the oddest aspect of this case, short of the unexplained disappearance of BT. One also wonders if anyone has arrived to the U.S. from H.K.?

That situation makes me want to apply a "follow the money" approach. Who 'owns' the money in the Thomas household (for lack of a better way to hint at it)? Was there a "last will and testament"? Beneficiaries? But this far out there likely isn't a 'there', there; LE would have picked up on it by now.

I suspect LE must be waiting for a screw-up that isn't coming.

 

[firstsleuth]

<modsnip>

@Micheline

The Mohave Desert spans a large area of varying altitudes and temperatures.

IMO: right there right now is the weather station at Sweeney Granite Mountains Research Center in the Mojave National Preserve

High temp yesterday: 76.6

Take a look

Sweeney Granite Mountains California

 

[Cherwell]

but he said that she said he'd given a very detailed account of that entire morning, so again, I ask why would he leave parts out, aside from the emotional/relationship aspect?
it was a long story that started at the beginning on friday morning and progressed chronologically throughout the day.

Because people are not machines.
He may have consciously left things out because he didn't think them important, or he may simply have forgotten to mention them.

Equally, as @Nikynoo observed in her post (see below), the same points may be applied to the VI sister. We cannot expect her to have a perfect recollection of a lengthy conversation, and she herself warned that she might not remember everything. She recounted what she remembered. It is not a verbatim account. She may have missed some of what he said; she wasn't to know she would be asked to repeat it later.

IMO, because the text message did not relay the entire conversation, it was a summary of what was said.

As I have said before, I am keeping an open mind. There is always more than one way of looking at things, and I try to bear that in mind. Some seem determined to believe that Barbara was killed by her husband and her remains concealed by him. That is of course possible, but I haven't yet read or heard anything that convinces me that a crime was committed.

 

[LietKynes]

bbm


Certainly the oddest aspect of this case, short of the unexplained disappearance of BT. One also wonders if anyone has arrived to the U.S. from H.K.?

That situation makes me want to apply a "follow the money" approach. Who 'owns' the money in the Thomas household (for lack of a better way to hint at it)? Was there a "last will and testament"? Beneficiaries? But this far out there likely isn't a 'there', there; LE would have picked up on it by now.

I suspect LE must be waiting for a screw-up that isn't coming.

Agreed.

There is a money trail and to date no one has put up a reward.
Very sad for this Barbara.
It's not as if the spouse is penniless and indigent.
But there are other family members including but not limited to RT's daughters who were said to be Barbara's best friends.