CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[rosesfromangels]

If RT and BT were known to be wealthy by standards of their region, it isn’t inconceivable that she was abducted for a ransom scheme.

However, we have zero indication that transpired.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Seajay]

Yes, and many of those bodies have taken years to find.

Geraldine Largay, off the Appalachian Trail: missing July 2013, found October 2015. Over two years off an incredibly popular trail.
The Death Valley Germans, in Death Valley: missing July 1996, found November 2009. 13 years.
Steve Fossett, in the Sierra Nevadas: missing September 2007, found September 2008. This with "the largest search and rescue effort ever conducted for a person within the U.S."
Riley Zickel, in the woods east of Salem Oregon: missing July 2016, found September 2019. Just a few months ago.

And then there are the ones we may never find, like Jim Gray.

Yes, we also have cases I worked on here a few years back Johnathan Reynoso and Audrey Moran May 2017-Indio, CA
Bob Harrod July 2009-Orange Country, CA
Susan Jacobson May 2013-Roseville, CA
Bryce Laspisa August 2013-Castaic, CA
Derek Seehausen August 2014-Glendale, CA

None of these people have been found. It’s been 10 years for Bob Harrod.

As I said, some may be 10 years or 100 years, who knows. Perhaps Barbara Thomas will be added to this list.

All these are cases here, I just don’t remember how to link them, Chemo brain. Sorry

 

[MsBetsy]

@10ofRods bbm sbm @dbdb11 and Others

Was the ^ phone contact actually the last direct contact RT had w BT's fam in HK (or the immed fam of BT's brother in HK, wherever they happen to be located)?
If so, did that last contact occur before the LE suspended the SAR ~July 22?

Thinking of BT and her family often.

Yes, the phone call occurred while the search was still going on.
The VI was unable to speak to Robert at that time and instead spoke to a family member, who said RT was busy going through photos with detectives. They said they were doing everything they could to get the word out far and wide.

He said that RT told him his calls to China rarely went through, and since he was having a hard time getting through it was better for them to call him.

About a month later I asked the VI if he had ever reached him or spoke to him again and I don't remember getting an answer. But he did say later that he wanted to talk to RT again so I'm guessing at least up to that point he had not.

Imo

 

[Cherwell]

I am going by what her husband is guessing, that she was abducted and taken to Vegas. Unless she was chloroformed or syringed with something to disable her, there would have been some kind of struggle and something left behind of the loose things we have been told she had with her. IMO

Yes, but you seem to have ignored what I suggested. That she got into the car willingly, thinking that a Good Samaritan was offering her a lift back to her RV. Probably not something she would do if she was fit and well, but if her judgement was impaired by the effects of the heat, or if she was feeling ill, it's possible.

I don't think this is what happened, but it can't be ruled out, and I am just trying to show that an abduction doesn't have to involve struggle or force.

 

[Jenz]

Yes, the phone call occurred while the search was still going on.
The VI was unable to speak to Robert at that time and instead spoke to a family member, who said RT was busy going through photos with detectives. They said they were doing everything they could to get the word out far and wide.

He said that RT told him his calls to China rarely went through, and since he was having a hard time getting through it was better for them to call him.

About a month later I asked the VI if he had ever reached him or spoke to him again and I don't remember getting an answer. But he did say later that he wanted to talk to RT again so I'm guessing at least up to that point he had not.

Imo

BBM

I would hope so!..

Did they? Does anyone know?

 

[Cherwell]

But if in fact RT was so overwhelmed that Lexi was abandoned at the kennel, one again wonders why no neighbors, friends or family stepped in to help.

It's not always that simple to find someone to board your dog. You need someone who likes dogs, is at home for most of the day, and can exercise the dog. Some people who tick all those boxes have dogs of their own who might not tolerate an incoming dog, or they might have cats (my dog is a cat-chaser and Lexi might be too.) Or they may go away a lot themselves - I have friends who look after my dog sometimes but they aren't always available.

 

[Stripehaven]

I wonder what Barb’s capacity for alcohol was. In her photos she appears to be very thin. In a couple, the knobs of her elbow and shoulder joints are prominent, and then there’s the idea that the camera adds ten pounds. I wonder if a beer (and I’ve always been curious whether it was one beer or more) + a hot day would have been difficult for her to tolerate.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM

I would hope so!..

Did they? Does anyone know?

I don't know. Maybe they were talking about arranging interviews with the media. That's the best way to get the word out. RT's daughter, who I think was referred to as a close friend to Barbara, also appeared in the news.
I imagine the first few days and weeks are crucial. But after searching the desert for so many days, using all the resources LE had, and not finding any sign of her or evidence she was abducted, I imagine people assumed that was the end of it and she would never be found. It wasn't featured in the media much after that and some people here have said there are locals who never even heard about the case.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder what Barb’s capacity for alcohol was. In her photos she appears to be very thin. In a couple, the knobs of her elbow and shoulder joints are prominent, and then there’s the idea that the camera adds ten pounds. I wonder if a beer (and I’ve always been curious whether it was one beer or more) + a hot day would have been difficult for her to tolerate.

I imagine she was used to it. The VI said beer, bikini and hiking boots were Barbara's style.
However, at that age even people who are used to it can become dehydrated easily, especially if they did not have enough water before or during a hike in the extreme heat. Imo

 

[Jenz]

I don't know. Maybe they were talking about arranging interviews with the media. That's the best way to get the word out. RT's daughter, who I think was referred to as a close friend to Barbara, also appeared in the news.
I imagine the first few days and weeks are crucial. But after searching the desert for so many days, using all the resources LE had, and not finding any sign of her or evidence she was abducted, I imagine people assumed that was the end if it and she would never be found. It wasn't featured in the media much after that and some people here have said there are locals who never even heard about the case.

Imo

I'm just astounded that they didn't do everything or anything they could to find Barb...as far as I can look? Nothing.

How sad....

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm just astounded that they didn't do everything or anything they could to find Barb...as far as I can look? Nothing.

How sad....

Well, we don't know that they didn't do anything. Apparently RT had been going back to the desert looking for any clue he could find.

After Matt's interview there was a statement by RT's lawyer that they were working hard to find her. We don't know what they were doing, but RT's nephew said knowing Robert, he would likely hire a PI.
We don't know if he ever did, but then again I guess we wouldn't know, unless they found her or uncovered some important evidence.
My guess is that they were unable to find anything and they may believe she is deceased and has been for quite some time.
Or maybe they still have hope.
The VI has not posted for awhile but mentioned they were going to pursue an alternate way to find out what happened. I don't remember the exact words but he also said he was planning a trip there but his family was afraid for his safety.
Understandably, since they believe there are powerful people involved.

Imo

 

[Jenz]

Well, we don't know that they didn't do anything. Apparently RT had been going back to the desert looking for any clue he could find.

After Matt's interview there was a statement by RT's lawyer that they were working hard to find her. We don't know what they were doing, but RT's nephew said knowing Robert, he would likely hire a PI.
We don't know if he ever did, but then again I guess we wouldn't know, unless they found her or uncovered some important evidence.
My guess is that they were unable to find anything and they may believe she is deceased and has been for quite some time.
Or maybe they still have hope.
The VI has not posted for awhile but mentioned they were going to pursue an alternate way to find out what happened. I don't remember the exact words but he also said he was planning a trip there but his family was afraid for his safety.
Understandably, since they believe there are powerful people involved.

Imo

Well sure hope he did...if it were my partner, i'd be not giving up.

Poor fella, hope he's doing ok and still not giving up on hope of finding his wife...

My heart goes out to Barbs immediate family...her brother; he was not well....her son and grandkids....

Let's hope there is still a lot going on behind the scenes with LE and Barb will be found...

 

[BeachSky]

I wonder what Barb’s capacity for alcohol was. In her photos she appears to be very thin. In a couple, the knobs of her elbow and shoulder joints are prominent, and then there’s the idea that the camera adds ten pounds. I wonder if a beer (and I’ve always been curious whether it was one beer or more) + a hot day would have been difficult for her to tolerate.

BTs stats say she is : 5’9” ....130lbs.

 

[Jade]

@anneg has linked the relevant post - thanks Anne.

My interpretation of 'bickering' is apparently the same as the VI's. Mild disagreements, less serious than 'arguing' or 'quarrelling'. Bickering can involve banter or teasing, which is why onlookers can find it entertaining. Horrifying? Absolutely not.

Oh my, really:

Definition of bickering

(Entry 1 of 2)

: petty and petulant quarreling especially when prolonged or habitual … said his own bosses, through their persistent bickering, had made his job practically impossible.— Ronald Scott also, plural : instances of such quarreling was tired of listening to their endless bickerings

bickering

adjective

Definition of bickering (Entry 2 of 2)

: engaging in or characterized by petty and petulant quarreling a bickering couple bickering politicians
​

Definition of BICKERING



Guess it depends on where you come from or maybe a trait of an older generation.

No wonder they didn’t have any friends.

Never found teasing much fun either.

Can’t think of any enjoyable, well rounded couples in my social circle that I would speak of as having martial arguments that were amusing.

But I am from the south where we are pretty happy go lucky and men or the ones I socialize with are the sweet natured kind of funny.

I have been to other parts of the country that are augmentative. I thought they seemed unhappy but so they like bickering for the amusement of onlookers?

It’s a dichotomy to me as I don’t think arguments in front of family are usual and certainly not comical.

BT and RT have the usual marital arguments which dbdb11's parents describe as comical and entertaining.​

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5




So then as you say there is really nothing to see here anyway two went into the desert and one came out.

It happens.



all imo

​

 

[MsBetsy]

Oh my, really:

Definition of bickering

(Entry 1 of 2)

: petty and petulant quarreling especially when prolonged or habitual … said his own bosses, through their persistent bickering, had made his job practically impossible.— Ronald Scott also, plural : instances of such quarreling was tired of listening to their endless bickerings

bickering

adjective

Definition of bickering (Entry 2 of 2)

: engaging in or characterized by petty and petulant quarreling a bickering couple bickering politicians
​

Definition of BICKERING



Guess it depends on where you come from or maybe a trait of an older generation.

No wonder they didn’t have any friends.

Never found teasing much fun either.

Can’t think of any enjoyable, well rounded couples in my social circle that I would speak of as having martial arguments that were amusing.

But I am from the south where we are pretty happy go lucky and men or the ones I socialize with are the sweet natured kind of funny.

I have been to other parts of the country that are augmentative. I thought they seemed unhappy but so they like bickering for the amusement of onlookers?

It’s a dichotomy to me as I don’t think arguments in front of family are usual and certainly not comical.

BT and RT have the usual marital arguments which dbdb11's parents describe as comical and entertaining.​

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5




So then as you say there is really nothing to see here anyway two went into the desert and one came out.

It happens.



all imo

​

Yes, petty, meaning they argued over little things that were not important, and they did so on a regular basis, not unlike many other couples. That is the way it was described.

But he also said he felt they were very much in love, and their common interests are what likely attracted them to each other.

We had a long discussion about couples arguing and some said they never argued and others said they or couples they knew argued all the time. There were many interesting examples.

So it's hard to say what is "normal."

Imo

 

[10ofRods]

It's not always that simple to find someone to board your dog. You need someone who likes dogs, is at home for most of the day, and can exercise the dog. Some people who tick all those boxes have dogs of their own who might not tolerate an incoming dog, or they might have cats (my dog is a cat-chaser and Lexi might be too.) Or they may go away a lot themselves - I have friends who look after my dog sometimes but they aren't always available.

In Bullhead City (and in most places in the American West with tourism or gambling of any kind anywhere near them) there are doggie daycare/boarding places. Hardly anyone takes their dog to anyone's home any more. It's my understanding that Barbara's daycare/boarding place of choice was near her house, had two employees, had regular operating hours and was one of these kinds of places, not someone's home.

In places where the temps are over 100°, dogs are rarely or never exercised outside. Instead, there are big areas indoors for the doggies to exercise and play all day. My dog loves her doggie place (which has three "classrooms" for different size/activity levels). Each of them has things to climb on top of (which my dog prefers) as well as other stuff/things to play in and on. They basically chase each other around a lot, as you'd see in an off leash dog park.

No cats allowed. Medical statements required at the one I go to.

 

[10ofRods]

There are good reasons for him to be "banned" from the search area:
- what if he finds her body? Talk about a knife to the heart.
- what if there was foul play? If the family member/friend was involved, you don't want them finding the body and making sure there's no evidence around. If they aren't involved, they're going to screw everything up running up to them and trampling over footprints/etc.
- SAR is rough, especially in inhospitable terrain. You aren't going on a hike. BT isn't on an easy to access trail if she's out there. It's no country for old men. I went to a SAR orientation in my 30s and I was intimidated by what they do.

I agree. Apparently, RT wanted to be out there. I think your third reason, alone, would be enough for RT to be sent home. Of course, he had to leave to take his polygraph (which from what I can tell was either Sunday or Monday - he's talking about to the reporter on Monday afternoon).

There was a lot of trampling over footprints eventually in this search (you can see how the SAR people, mostly of them young and some probably still in training, are walking across a bit swath of HH road). On a slightly different topic, there's a video of them with a sniffer dog (there are two dogs in the video, both seem to be sniffer dogs) at the "intersection" between the main trail and where another trail goes down to the dry wash). In the video, the sniffer dog tries to go down to the dry wash and is turned back by the handler (this is a common practice when they want the dog to get on to a scent that is in a different direction). This is one quarter of a mile from the parking spot, and early on, a local news reporter said that RT mentioned going to a "dry lake bed" (It was a dry creek bed). Anyway, RT's scent would have been on that other trail (so the handler was going by RT's statement about where they parted, I assume). RT's scent would have been on both trails (and the dog clearly smelled something on the trail RT took to the dry creek, but was discouraged from going there). Unfortunately, it's possible that Barbara (with or without RT seeing) also walked on that trail at some point, so it's also possible that the dogs were never able to clearly scent Barbara.

There's no sign of a bloodhound or other tracker dog (although it's still possible). So from the beginning, the search was complicated by RT's scent being out there too, and I can see why they'd want him to stay away. Since the two of them were together most of the time while on trail, and then RT goes on all the trails a second or third or fourth time, it may well have confused the sniffer dogs (along with the heat issue). So it's no wonder to me that the dogs never found Barbara's trail.

I think it's interesting that RT told family in HK that he sat in a cop car for 5 hours (possibly to keep his scent off trail and to keep him cooled off). He could have asked to stay inside the RV, but I bet if he had wanted to do that, LE might have asked to come in and out to talk to him, get more clues (thereby waiving his right to exclude them from a visual search).

 

[LietKynes]

Well, we don't know that they didn't do anything. Apparently RT had been going back to the desert looking for any clue he could find.

After Matt's interview there was a statement by RT's lawyer that they were working hard to find her. We don't know what they were doing, but RT's nephew said knowing Robert, he would likely hire a PI.
We don't know if he ever did, but then again I guess we wouldn't know, unless they found her or uncovered some important evidence.
My guess is that they were unable to find anything and they may believe she is deceased and has been for quite some time.
Or maybe they still have hope.
The VI has not posted for awhile but mentioned they were going to pursue an alternate way to find out what happened. I don't remember the exact words but he also said he was planning a trip there but his family was afraid for his safety.
Understandably, since they believe there are powerful people involved.

Imo

LBM

First bolded : Do you have a link for that ?
We can presume he might have searched, but it's just speculation at this point.
No one knows if RT has gone back to the desert to search for her.
If it's not in msm, we can guess that only the initial LE and SAR search checked the area where she vanished.

I can imagine his lawyer would advise against it, as he (the lawyer) would deem RT to be far to old to be stressing himself by looking in the desert.
Putting up missing person's flyers would be helpful --has anyone been in the area -- where they hiked or at their home town -- observed any missing posters put up ?

Second bolded : What has the lawyer done ? Have there been a further msm interview ? If so, we at WS may have missed it.
Serious question as I cannot find anything new in the media thread ; beyond that the lawyer made a statement, and that was all .
Not asking you , but the lawyer.
I want to know what it is that the lawyer thinks he did. "Working desperately..." were his words.

Third bolded : The VI said the lawyer has stopped representing RT.
The VI is Barbara's nephew , afaik.

Fourth bolded : That was Barbara's son who said that.

 

[MsBetsy]

LBM

First bolded : Do you have a link for that ?
We can presume he might have searched, but it's just speculation at this point.
No one knows if RT has gone back to the desert to search for her.
If it's not in msm, we can guess that only the initial LE and SAR search checked the area where she vanished.

I can imagine his lawyer would advise against it, as he (the lawyer) would deem RT to be far to old to be stressing himself by looking in the desert.
Putting up missing person's flyers would be helpful --has anyone been in the area -- where they hiked or at their home town -- observed any missing posters put up ?

Second bolded : What has the lawyer done ? Have there been a further msm interview ? If so, we at WS may have missed it.
Serious question as I cannot find in the media thread beyond that the lawyer made a statement, and that was all .
Not asking you , but the lawyer.

Third bolded : The VI said the lawyer has stopped representing RT.
The VI is Barbara's nephew , afaik.

Fourth bolded : That was Barbara's son who said that.

I can't provide a link, but it's all contained in the posts by the VI. I thought we could discuss anything he said even though it was not in MSM.
He said he talked to RT and RT said he had been back to the desert, searching everywhere, turning over rocks, etc. We had a big discussion about why he would turn over rocks and that's where the phrase "leaving no stone unturned" came up. That was during the first few days apparently so we don't know if he has gone back since then.

And yes, we don't know what the lawyer has done other then saying they have been working frantically, or something like that, to find Barbara. Not sure what word he used. We have all been wondering what they were doing. We just don't know. That he is not representing him anymore may mean that they found nothing, or LE has not found any evidence against him, so he doesn't need a lawyer.

Barbara's son did say that he fears for his safety but the VI also said Barbara's family fears for his own safety, as well. He mentioned it when he was talking about making a trip out there.
He feels there are powerful people involved and that has been constant throughout, as far as I can tell.

Matt is the one who said Robert knows what happened in relation to the company and the people involved but I suspect RT's nephew does too.

Edited to add: I think the VI thinks RT knows too. Not that he himself knows.
Imo

 

[Jenz]

LBM

First bolded : Do you have a link for that ?
We can presume he might have searched, but it's just speculation at this point.
No one knows if RT has gone back to the desert to search for her.
If it's not in msm, we can guess that only the initial LE and SAR search checked the area where she vanished.

I can imagine his lawyer would advise against it, as he (the lawyer) would deem RT to be far to old to be stressing himself by looking in the desert.
Putting up missing person's flyers would be helpful --has anyone been in the area -- where they hiked or at their home town -- observed any missing posters put up ?

Second bolded : What has the lawyer done ? Have there been a further msm interview ? If so, we at WS may have missed it.
Serious question as I cannot find anything new in the media thread ; beyond that the lawyer made a statement, and that was all .
Not asking you , but the lawyer.
I want to know what it is that the lawyer thinks he did. "Working desperately..." were his words.

Third bolded : The VI said the lawyer has stopped representing RT.
The VI is Barbara's nephew , afaik.

Fourth bolded : That was Barbara's son who said that.

I'm thinking perhaps he looked about for her initially....gone back to the cave ...looked about...waved his arms an shouted out her name..

Did he post flyers and stuff? I dunno? Hope so! Anyone there close by see any posters?

Yeah I'd like to know what the "working desperately" involved?