CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

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  • #981
Yeah, that's strange. Because I thought I read there were about 1000
mines in that area.

Another poster mentioned that there were not any withing walking distance from where they were, or at least not closer than five miles I think.
Maybe that's what he meant. He would certainly know about the mines. I wonder what he meant by the area is not good for mining.
Maybe 10ofRods can think so something? Or anybody?

Imo
LBM

Whoah. That's a lot of mines. Old or more recent ones.
5 miles isn't walking distance.
Maybe only driving distance.
I'd imagine they're all boarded up or the entrances demolished if no longer in use.
Scary to think about falling down one of them.
Erin Corwin was found more than 100 feet down.
 
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  • #982
LBM

Agreed that any help would and should be welcomed and encouraged by all who love Barbara.

There was a poster who uploaded a map of mines in the area, but if they're boarded up they shouldn't be dangerous.
And yes-- an unfit mining area can be translated into 'no longer being mined'.
Those are two separate entities.

I can check back and see if the post was specific to your description and repost .
If not -- there might be another map and I'll link it.
It would broaden the search area.
Yeah, that makes sense. I can't imagine he would suggest there were no mines because it can be googled and one can find the information in a minute. That's what I did and I'm pretty sure it said there were 1000 around the area of Needles but that was a while ago so now I'm curious if that's right. Unless they mean sections of mines, I really don't know. I don't think I've ever seen one. Imo
 
  • #983
When I looked for mines I did not find any that were close
 
  • #984
Yeah, that makes sense. I can't imagine he would suggest there were no mines because it can be googled and one can find the information in a minute. That's what I did and I'm pretty sure it said there were 1000 around the area of Needles but that was a while ago so now I'm curious if that's right. Unless they mean sections of mines, I really don't know. I don't think I've ever seen one. Imo
Ok, I googled it again and it said there were 11,904 mines in the area of Needles! That is a lot of mines.
Now I wonder about how many are within a few miles of where they were.
I guess none that were close. That's probably what RT meant.

Imo
 
  • #985
Ok, I googled it again and it said there were 11,904 mines in the area of Needles! That is a lot of mines.
Now I wonder about how many are within a few miles of where they were.
I guess none that were close. That's probably what RT meant.

Imo

None they know of. Home | AbandonedMines says there could be half a million abandoned mines in the US. Watch your step.
 
  • #986
Thank You
I do plan to contact the detective before going on this trip. I will be asking if they will share previous SAR search data. If not it wont be a problem. More then that, I really just would like to know where RT said he was standing when he lost sight of BT. I do hope they can share that. From that position I will launch a drone and use the camera to record the area looking for where she or items belonging to her may be. I will follow a common path back to where the R.V. was located. Then from the road I will fly a grid pattern recording everything to study later. I will also be searching for other possible routes Barbara may have taken and record that also.
I don't see why they wouldn't tell you at least where the spot was that he last saw her. We already have a good idea and it was public information so it's not like it would affect the investigation.
I would think they would welcome the help.
Good luck! When are you planning to go?
 
  • #987
No foul play and no abduction. That only leaves voluntarily missing.

In the middle of nowhere. In a bikini and boots. O. K. That makes soooo much sense. NOT!
 
  • #988
No foul play and no abduction. That only leaves voluntarily missing.

In the middle of nowhere. In a bikini and boots. O. K. That makes soooo much sense. NOT!
I don't think LE has ever considered her voluntarily missing.
No way would they put that much effort into searching for her for all that time.

Imo
 
  • #989
I don't think LE has ever considered her voluntarily missing.
No way would they put that much effort into searching for her for all that time.

Imo
bbm

LE have also ruled out an abduction -- in their own words -- they said they don't have 'evidence of an abduction'.
 
  • #990
bbm

LE have also ruled out an abduction -- in their own words -- they said they don't have 'evidence of an abduction'.

Not finding evidence of something is not the same as ruling it out. To my knowledge, LE has not "ruled out" anything at this time.

I could come home and find my precious gold widget has disappeared from my home ... door unlocked, no forced entry, no footprints, no fingerprints, no video, etc. There is just no evidence; doesn't mean it didn't disappear or that someone didn't take it.
 
  • #991
Not finding evidence of something is not the same as ruling it out. To my knowledge, LE has not "ruled out" anything at this time.

I could come home and find my precious gold widget has disappeared from my home ... door unlocked, no forced entry, no footprints, no fingerprints, no video, etc. There is just no evidence; doesn't mean it didn't disappear or that someone didn't take it.
LBM
True.
Thanks for pointing that out !!
 
  • #992
Regarding mines in the area, dbdb11 and RT did discuss them, but it sounds like RT was a bit dismissive (might be just my interpretation, though) of the idea. I thought it has been stated here that there are a number of mines at the Preserve, iirc, but perhaps RT meant there isn’t any within close walking proximity to where he saw Barbara last, which I have no idea.

What dbdb11 wrote:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5
I have no idea, either, but I plan to do some light reading.
Desert Mines & Mills

Mojave Desert Map

Mining for History in the Mojave Desert's Kessler Peak Trail Review | DrivingLine

Mojave Desert Maps – Total Escape Map Shop

Mitchell Caverns Tour in Mojave National Preserve - California Through My Lens
 
  • #993
I really don’t have anything to say about that because in just a few minutes she would have to be completely disoriented, in distress and wandering aimlessly for this to happen. If RT was only 5 minutes behind, and she was fine when he saw her on the trail 5 minutes before, that would be the time window for that to happen where she’d accept a ride and there would be no struggle or reason to leave her beer container, hat or sunglasses behind. IMO
Sure, but I think it's quite likely that he was more than five minutes behind her.
As I've said before, he may not have been entirely candid or accurate about the circumstances of their parting when he (a) gave the interview and (b) spoke to the family in HK. And that's all we have to go on. He may have opened up more to the police, but we have no way of knowing what he has told them.
 
  • #994
  • #995
Sure, but I think it's quite likely that he was more than five minutes behind her.
As I've said before, he may not have been entirely candid or accurate about the circumstances of their parting when he (a) gave the interview and (b) spoke to the family in HK. And that's all we have to go on. He may have opened up more to the police, but we have no way of knowing what he has told them.

But we do have some idea where SAR started many of its searches, based on whatever it was RT had already said. SAR was out there for days after the polygraph. They went as far as the first boulder field (about .3 miles) and helicopters can be seen flying just beyond the uplift that's about .5 miles from the RV parking). They also walked out Hidden Hills.

The reason there are no mines nearby is that there is granite bedrock, so I agree with RT that there would be no mineshifts in the near vicinity. In the larger area, there are thousands of separate mine shafts (gold was found out there at one point, people still try to find it).

RT places Barbara not far from the RV, is the plain fact that's been distributed. Even if they were .5 miles away from the RV and he was mistaken about distance, we're only talking .25 miles and only so many trails. For those of us who think there's a chance that Barbara wandered further on the wrong trail before doing whatever she did next, the place to search would be south of the intersection in the cholla garden.

I just wish we knew what "corner" RT could have been speaking of, in terms of this landscape

Imgur

(Tried to get a good quality screenshot; lower right hand corner is the "intersection" in the cholla garden; note the various "rock formations" that RT could have been photographing). None of this is much more than .5 miles from the parking.

The trail heading out of picture to the south at lower right goes for about a mile parallel to Kelbaker. RV was likely "in sight" for part of that walk, so perhaps a bit confusing, as if Barbara came to that intersection alone, she might not have remembered which direction they came from - if RV was more visible, short term, from the southbound trail, it would be so great to know. RV was taller than most cars, though, so cars/SUV's might not be visible whereas an RV would be.

@cazador, you'll get to be our eyes and ears on the ground!
 
  • #996
But we do have some idea where SAR started many of its searches, based on whatever it was RT had already said. SAR was out there for days after the polygraph. They went as far as the first boulder field (about .3 miles) and helicopters can be seen flying just beyond the uplift that's about .5 miles from the RV parking). They also walked out Hidden Hills.

The reason there are no mines nearby is that there is granite bedrock, so I agree with RT that there would be no mineshifts in the near vicinity. In the larger area, there are thousands of separate mine shafts (gold was found out there at one point, people still try to find it).

RT places Barbara not far from the RV, is the plain fact that's been distributed. Even if they were .5 miles away from the RV and he was mistaken about distance, we're only talking .25 miles and only so many trails. For those of us who think there's a chance that Barbara wandered further on the wrong trail before doing whatever she did next, the place to search would be south of the intersection in the cholla garden.

I just wish we knew what "corner" RT could have been speaking of, in terms of this landscape

Imgur

(Tried to get a good quality screenshot; lower right hand corner is the "intersection" in the cholla garden; note the various "rock formations" that RT could have been photographing). None of this is much more than .5 miles from the parking.

The trail heading out of picture to the south at lower right goes for about a mile parallel to Kelbaker. RV was likely "in sight" for part of that walk, so perhaps a bit confusing, as if Barbara came to that intersection alone, she might not have remembered which direction they came from - if RV was more visible, short term, from the southbound trail, it would be so great to know. RV was taller than most cars, though, so cars/SUV's might not be visible whereas an RV would be.

@cazador, you'll get to be our eyes and ears on the ground!
Eyes and Ears I am ;)
 
  • #997
LE Releasing Info?
I don't see why they wouldn't tell you at least where the spot was that he last saw her. We already have a good idea and it was public information so it's not like it would affect the investigation.
I would think they would welcome the help.
Good luck! When are you planning to go?
@MsBetsy :) and Others

As much as I might want to agree, I wonder if LE will disclose last place seen.
All the MSM stories/article/blogs/etc w info reported are public knowledge.
Not the same as "public records" under Ca. Public Records Act.*


Wishing the best of luck for our special search team.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Government Code, TITLE 1. GENERAL DIVISION 7. MISCELLANEOUS
CHAPTER 3.5. Inspection of Public Records
ARTICLE 1. General Provisions

6253.
(a) Public records are open to inspection at all times during the office hours of the state or local agency and every person has a right to inspect any public record, except as hereafter provided. Any reasonably segregable portion of a record shall be available for inspection by any person requesting the record after deletion of the portions that are exempted by law...."

(Amended by Stats. 2016, Ch. 275, Sec. 1. (AB 2853) Effective January 1, 2017.)
6254.
Except as provided in Sections 6254.7 and 6254.13 this chapter does not require the disclosure of any of the following records:
(f) Records of complaints to, or investigations conducted by, or records of intelligence information or security procedures of, the office of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice, the Office of Emergency Services and any state or local police agency, or any investigatory or security files compiled by any other state or local police agency, or any investigatory or security files compiled by any other state or local agency for correctional, law enforcement, or licensing purposes...."
(Amended by Stats. 2019, Ch. 25, Sec. 1. (SB 94) Effective June 27, 2019.)
^ bbm ^
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...sion=7.&title=1.&part=&chapter=3.5.&article=1.
 
  • #998
Eyes and Ears I am ;)

Thanks so much, @cazador !
It's exciting to finally get a clear video/picture --- of where they walked , where the 'corner' is, how far away the RV would've been, etc.
 
  • #999
Was reporter from Las Vegas tv station on the scene w RT at the turnout?
I wonder if she might be able to pinpoint the place last seen.
Or narrow it down somewhat.
 
  • #1,000
Yeah, I don't think SBCSO is going to be very helpful in this case. I try to take it as a good sign (they're investigating). I sure would like to see people at travel stops in Needles and Barstow be aware that there might be a missing woman to be found in various places close to roads, where a big truck and trailer stopped. That's how people get found at Grand Canyon (although there are always unfound persons there).

Was reporter from Las Vegas tv station on the scene w RT at the turnout?
I wonder if she might be able to pinpoint the place last seen.
Or narrow it down somewhat.

No. I've spoken to her and she went to BHC to meet up with RT and did not go out to the search site.

The reporter who I thought may have gone out (twitter reporter) has not responded to any contact. I don't think she went out there, either, though.
 
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