CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[Kapua]

I can see that except don’t lots of people vacation in places like that with no one else around? If that’s so, wouldn’t bad (and good) things have to happen with no witnesses? I keep wondering about quicksand (no idea where that even occurs and it’s too unlikely to consider)/abandoned wells, sinkholes, etc. What wild animals live out there?

I had to Google. Mojave Desert Animals and Plants

 

[artsy1]

No creeks there.. Does anyone know if theres any big cats in that area?

Mountain Lion - Desert Wildlife

Mountain Lion
Puma concolor
Family: Felidae Order: Carnivora Class: Mammalia
DISTRIBUTION, ABUNDANCE, AND SEASONALITY

"Widespread, uncommon permanent resident, ranging from sea level to alpine meadows. Found in nearly all habitats, except xeric regions of the Mojave and Colorado deserts that do not support mule deer populations."

 

[AnnaGrace]

Just thinking back on cases I've followed where it was said by a poi, suspect, lawyer, etc., or anybody else for that matter, that took a polygragh test and commented on the results, was it ever confirmed by LE? I don't remember a case where it was or even mentioned by them that one was given. Does LE ever reveal or comment on it? I know that was a really long sentence, I apologize, but a lot of thoughts going on.
I've noticed that the daily updates on the search states no evidence of BT was found. Is that common or is it stating no evidence of her being there was found? In Serenity's case I know they say something like 'we did not find her', but she's been missing since February, so different circumstances. No accusations, just wondering.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

As a general rule, if there are herds of deer, or other large herbivores, then you may have mountain lions. If there isn’t a good supply of large herbivores, then you will only get an occasional mountain lion traveling through to better territory. (Even in places where mountain lions have established territories near human populations, attacks on humans are very rare.)

So, look at the vegetation and water supply and see if herds of deer seem likely.

I imagine not but I once turned around in the desert to find myself a foot away from about 10 dusty longhorn cattle that didn’t seem to be happy to see me. I didn’t even hear them. I backed away. They walked toward me so I took a wide sideways route and then backed away asap. No fences anywhere I could see. They wouldn’t eat a human but still. Wild horses live nearby as possible bobcat food? I don’t know (obviously).

 

[K9Enzo]

I can't believe LE has had no press conferences. I'm glad they're updating on SM but that way they are conveniently avoiding answering any questions from reporters. Does anyone know if this is the norm for this particular LE?

Respectfully and at the risk of sounding crass, which is not my intention, at all.

This case for LE, at this point, hardly rises to the level of a press conference. A presumed missing hiker/ impromptu explorer in tough terrain that went missing. IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

But he unfolded before rolling cameras the love notes she left him, hand-written notes of the tenderest mercies

Hi HS - I like the poetic manner in which you describe things. It's a bit quirky, but I like quirky.

Here are some of the things I'm wondering about (rhetorical questions):

1. I wonder if RT mentioned in his media interview that LE told him he had been "deceptive" in the polygraph because he doesn't know that LE typically never tells the media the results of a polygraph? I wonder if he was trying to get ahead of something (i.e. tell the media before LE does in order to affect public opinion), or was he genuinely baffled that he could have 'failed' because he knows he told the truth?

IME, LE doesn't tell the public if a subject tested deceptive on a polygraph. However, I've seen probable cause affidavits (when LE has requested a search warrant) that mentioned polygraph results. But I don't recall ever hearing/reading LE announcing polygraph results to the public - that's just not something they do, since polygraphs are only used as an investigative tool.

What's significant, IMO, is that LE asked RT to undergo a polygraph. If he had refused, that would have raised red flags for the investigators. Who knows whether or not the results truly indicated deception. LE can tell a subject anything they want - it's legal for LE to lie to a subject.

2. I wonder if RT shared the affectionate memory of BT's love notes because he's in shock that his wife is inexplicably missing, and while he's apparently bewildered about what may have befallen her, he's reminiscing about all the love they shared and hopes to be reunited with her?

Did he mention the love notes in an effort to persuade LE, the family, the public that he had nothing to do with his wife's mysterious disappearance? If so, that still doesn't necessarily point to his involvement. After all, according to him, he's been told by LE that he'd been "deceptive" during the polygraph.

Even an innocent person will try to muster what they believe & hope is evidence of their innocence, if they've been led to believe by LE that they're a possible suspect because they were told they allegedly 'failed' the polygraph.

IMO, the public doesn't have enough information in order to make a reliable determination about what may have happened to BT.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Mountain Lion - Desert Wildlife

Mountain Lion
Puma concolor
Family: Felidae Order: Carnivora Class: Mammalia
DISTRIBUTION, ABUNDANCE, AND SEASONALITY

"Widespread, uncommon permanent resident, ranging from sea level to alpine meadows. Found in nearly all habitats, except xeric regions of the Mojave and Colorado deserts that do not support mule deer populations."

I read a lot about wild horses and one intriguing book was making the case for maintaining herds using bobcats. The BLM has NOT done this and I am not saying I agree or that any solution makes me happy but it was interesting to read this man’s take on it—and how fast and silent mountain lions are. Likely? No, but maybe not impossible for one to be there. Or not. MOO.

 

[Kapua]

Mountain Lion - Desert Wildlife

Mountain Lion
Puma concolor
Family: Felidae Order: Carnivora Class: Mammalia
DISTRIBUTION, ABUNDANCE, AND SEASONALITY

"Widespread, uncommon permanent resident, ranging from sea level to alpine meadows. Found in nearly all habitats, except xeric regions of the Mojave and Colorado deserts that do not support mule deer populations."

And… mountain lions typically hunt at night or twilight.
What Do Wild Mountain Lions Eat?

 

[HopeForTheBest]

I had to Google. Mojave Desert Animals and Plants

Thank you! I should have done my homework as I wasn’t even sure until now what desert this was. Sorry!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Just thinking back on cases I've followed where it was said by a poi, suspect, lawyer, etc., or anybody else for that matter, that took a polygragh test and commented on the results, was it ever confirmed by LE? I don't remember a case where it was or even mentioned by them that one was given. Does LE ever reveal or comment on it? I know that was a really long sentence, I apologize, but a lot of thoughts going on.
I've noticed that the daily updates on the search states no evidence of BT was found. Is that common or is it stating no evidence of her being there was found? In Serenity's case I know they say something like 'we did not find her', but she's been missing since February, so different circumstances. No accusations, just wondering.

I think that in most cases the results of polygraphs are not released by LE or prosecutors because they are generally not admissible as evidence at trial.

It could contaminate a potential jury pool. JMO.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I think that in most cases the results of polygraphs are not released by LE or prosecutors because they are generally not admissible as evidence at trial.

It could contaminate a potential jury pool. JMO.

Thank you. I couldn't come up with a single case where they had, but wasn't sure. Maybe when the case went to court, preliminary hearing, search warrant, etc.

 

[Kapua]

<Respectfully snipped by me>

IMO, the public doesn't have enough information in order to make a reliable determination about what may have happened to BT.

I totally agree. There's a lot that we do NOT know. When was BT last seen by someone other than RT? When did someone other than RT hear the sound of her voice? Did BT actually go on that camping trip with RT? Did the dogs indicate that she was in the area where she was allegedly separated from RT? When did RT put her cell phone in his backpack? Did LE search their home? Did LE search their computers/devices/cell phones? If so, what did they find?

 

[mickey2942]

I think that in most cases the results of polygraphs are not released by LE or prosecutors because they are generally not admissible as evidence at trial.

It could contaminate a potential jury pool. JMO.

I don't give much credibility to lie detector tests. They are a psychological game. Made to get the gullible "guilty" to "confess".

And a skilled psychopath, who lies and manipulates as a way of life, can pass a lie detector test with no problem. Even when the police try to "fake" that they didn't pass.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don't give much credibility to lie detector tests. They are a psychological game. Made to get the gullible "guilty" to "confess".

And a skilled psychopath, who lies and manipulates as a way of life, can pass a lie detector test with no problem. Even when the police try to "fake" that they didn't pass.

This is true as they have no empathy, and responses are not normal. They can and do pass polys. However, for the garden variety citizen, they are a good "directional" tool.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[mickey2942]

Husband of missing bikini-clad hiker says cops view him as prime suspect

Is the spouse considered a "victim" here, or a "suspect"?

 

[mrstfs]

Husband of missing bikini-clad hiker says cops view him as prime suspect

Is the spouse considered a "victim" here, or a "suspect"?

Not a suspect unless declared by LE. I’d go with victim for purposes of WS.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Thank you. I couldn't come up with a single case where they had, but wasn't sure. Maybe when the case went to court, preliminary hearing, search warrant, etc.

You're welcome. At the very least a public announcement that a suspect "failed a lie detector test" would be grounds for a change of venue if the case went to trial.

That's why I'm curious about what poster bykerladi feels the "failed" polygraph proves. To some it proves to them that a person is guilty of doing something nefarious.

To me, not so much. JMO

 

[Tillicum]

Husband of missing bikini-clad hiker says cops view him as prime suspect

Is the spouse considered a "victim" here, or a "suspect"?

This was brought up on thread one and a mod or Tricia said he's not considered a suspect here IIRC.

 

[wary]

Not a suspect unless declared by LE. I’d go with victim for purposes of WS.

Right, in fact I think I remember a mod saying—probably in the last thread—that his saying he was a suspect didn’t make him a suspect.

 

[wary]

You're welcome. At the very least a public announcement that a suspect "failed a lie detector test" would be grounds for a change of venue if the case went to trial.

That's why I'm curious about what poster bykerladi feels the "failed" polygraph proves. To some it proves to them that a person is guilty of doing something nefarious.

To me, not so much. JMO

Also, ‘failed’ is a much more dramatic word than ‘deceptive.’ People could be deceptive about small things that they felt guilty about, without having done anything criminal at all.

Who was it—I think maybe John Douglas—who advised parents to not take a polygraph, because if they were innocent, they would certainly be filled with guilt and stress, if something bad had happened to their child?