CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[Yvettea]

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I don’t know. Barbara went down one of the dune trails and fell at the end?

 

[PaulR]

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I don't see anything interesting.

 

[iscaremyself]

it was in the local paper ..
one article..you can do a search if interested.
Local News
(the site is acting weird)

 

[MsBetsy]

Thanks for the map link. That really helps to get an idea of the terrain they were in.

JMO
If that is where they parked then I do find it a little strange to try to walk to those rock cliffs in the distance with the attire they had on, if that is where they were headed. There is a small scale at bottom right of map and from what I measured, it would be around 3,000 feet or more to the beginning of the rock cliffs which is 0.57 miles. A little over 1/2 mile to the base of the rock cliffs, if estimate is about right.

Its doable for sure, but would it be worth it in that heat and attire or would you take pictures from right there at the car and then drive some more to see if there are better views of things right off the road.

I think they walked about a mile to get to the rock formations they wanted to see.
Anyway it was about a two mile walk, so that's what I'm assuming. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Is it the same spot where LE was set up during the search?
What do you think occurred?

 

[Thelastleg]

Wow. It’s just so odd. Of course if LE believes she’s still out there, dead due to misadventure, they’re not going to keep putting it in public eye.

I'm not really sold on this idea but what if Barbara was actually kidnapped and the ransom conditions included a news black out.

 

[PommyMommy]

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

It feels like I've been forced to do an excessive amount of crunches. But, I never really made it past the first couple sentences of this story anyway. "Pulled over to the side of the road" sounds like what you do to make a phone call. Just for starters. I do try to keep an open mind... MOO

 

[Stripehaven]

It feels like I've been forced to do an excessive amount of crunches. But, I never really made it past the first couple sentences of this story anyway. "Pulled over to the side of the road" sounds like what you do to make a phone call. Just for starters. I do try to keep an open mind... MOO

I’m not having any luck pulling up this overhead view. Is there a lonk

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I’m not having any luck with this. Neither of my map apps give me any result for Kelbaker, and when I scan Hidden Hill I don’t see it intersect Kelbaker anywhere. Is there a link of any kind?

 

[Jax49]

I’m not having any luck pulling up this overhead view. Is there a lonk

I’m not having any luck with this. Neither of my map apps give me any result for Kelbaker, and when I scan Hidden Hill I don’t see it intersect Kelbaker anywhere. Is there a link of any kind?

Does this work?

Google Maps

 

[Thelastleg]

Does this work?

Google Maps

Yes perfect. But I've no idea what I'm looking for

 

[broadviewren]

Yes...AND if they encounter a similar situation from a known camera source where she is not in the car...imo, he could easily say she was in the RV "taking a nap"

It's illegal to be in a trailer/5th wheel while the vehicle is moving, not to mention unsafe. So this excuse wouldn't be believable.

 

[Jax49]

Yes perfect. But I've no idea what I'm looking for

Same here. Someone else will have to point out what we're supposed to see.

 

[MsFacetious]

Just have to say...
I am so happy to see members from both sides of the family here!
That is so cool and really reflects positively on Barb as a person.

I really hope that both sides can continue working together and keep an open mind. I totally understand it's hard to hear suspicions/potentially negative thoughts about your loved one (foul play or possible run away). However if both sides of the family work together maybe they can get somewhere!

Obviously anything they know needs to be shared with LE first and I'm sure it has, but I think working with each other is a great idea as well. Each side will have different information and perspective, perhaps once they put it all together the puzzle might make some sense? It's worth a try, right?

I work for a lawyer and he welcomes input from anyone and everyone. He will literally ask someone in the grocery store for an opinion. He wants strategy ideas from his clients family and friends. His thought is that the more minds working on it, the more likely you are to hit on the right answer.

I think that is only more true when some of those minds actually know the people involved. Maybe the family members who are here with us can also get in touch with others who are not. Either way, it's giving me hope that Barb does have such a group of people who love her.

 

[dbdb11]

There is a difference between stating something as fact or expressing an opinion based on an interpretation of those facts.

Sharing personal details / fact is fine (i.e. RT cancelled a flight or RT said such and such or BT used to work at blah blah). No links required there. VIs are not required to provide links to information they state as fact.

In most other respects VIs are required to post as all regular members do. This includes keeping our opinion victim friendly. Victims include family members and loved ones, so we ask that members not express opinions that include insinuations or inferences that a loved one is responsible for the missing person's disappearance. IOW, no direct or indirect accusations / inferences against a person who LE has not officially designated a POI / suspect.

Imagine how any one of us would feel to make such inferences only to find those inferences were simply wrong. Nothing worse than re-victimizing someone who is already a victim and nobody wants to have to eat their words.

Sometimes what seems so apparent is just plain wrong. We've seen it happen before and it's not pleasant. First case that brought me to WS, I knew darn well whodunnit and I think everybody else agreed with me on my whodunnit. We were 110% wrong !!

Any further questions in this regard, members can PM a Mod or Admin and if we don't have an answer, we holler for Tricia to find one.

I stand by my appeal to robbies family, as well as welcoming information from both Robbie and Matt.
and i will continue to share info here, as in line with your TOS as i can be.

i hope to be 200% wrong, but have been digging deep. lets see if family can offer answers regarding robbies behavior in the past.

 

[dbdb11]

I think the reason he said that was to give a message to anyone who may have abducted her that there would not be consequences if they would just return her safely.

Probably just a desperate attempt to get her back.

I'm sure he wasn't thinking of whether or not he had the authority or what the proper procedure was in pressing charges.
It was just an appeal to whoever he thought may have taken her.

That was also just a few days after she went missing. We have no idea how he feels now. Maybe he is in denial, maybe he has lost hope, or maybe he still believes someone abducted her and she is alive. Imo

he should offer an incentive if he believes what he is saying, something he could follow through on.

no charges, no questions is a bit fairytale for me.

unless, as suggested, he knows more about the 'abductors' and what happened that day than we are being informed

 

[dbdb11]

Yes, now you're acting as if I didn't just say the same thing. They arrived on a Friday night, it was not possible to search everywhere. They never search everywhere. No one has every searched the entire Mojave for anyone.

However, they do have methods for establishing an early (short) perimeter, based on averages. They also had some daylight. I think they did have a helicopter out but not for very long as it got dark.

For 9 days, they tweeted their search parameters (and did check some other nearby intersections, which is obvious why if you look at the aerial map of where RT says he last saw her). They widened it. They walked in brush that no normal hiker in a bikini would walk, as it was filled with cholla. Cholla look really nice, they are really nasty, even the non-jumping kind. And they even tweeted about that (at least some of the SAR team did). They could not look under every cholla (but what living person would be there?)

Later though, when it became an apparent body recovery, they did re-search the area and posted pictures of them, and their dogs, poking around under the cholla. Beating the bush, as it were. And of course, they had widened the radius of the search every day that they searched.

The first priority was to search trailside (there are many trails) and in obvious places, in search of a live person. The early perimeter (afternoon one) looks to be about 1.5-2.0 miles in each direction from where RT last saw her (which is why his information was crucial) and then, by next day, including 1.5-2.0 miles from where they were parked (on foot) and way bigger radius for the helicopter(s). I can't recall now if it is was one or two.

The first day, they confined themselves to grid squares located off the main trails (obviously). They walked close together and marked off their grids with flags (couldn't use string out there). Some areas were not closely examined by eye that first night (cholla thickets). Anyone going into a cholla thicket alive would start screaming.

They had no reason to believe Barbara had been out of sight of her husband for more than 10-15 minutes, that she was sane and sound when she walked less than half a mile to the RV, etc. I'm sure that as this search evolved, so did the view that RT needed to say more.

less than 1/4 mile to rv from photo worthy rockformation, according to robbie. around 1000ft.

mighty silent abduction scenario.

 

[dbdb11]

So....
I took an aerial/satellite view of kelbaker and hidden hill, the area where folks seem to think the RV was.

Please do the same, and let me know if your stomach reacts the same way mine just did.

I really have little doubt as to what occurred after getting this perspective.

I look forward to your reaction as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

maybe you can share a screenshot?

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

That's what he says he thought at the time, and that's what makes sense, since the rocks are more interesting on the west side and it's just dirt road and sand (mostly) on the east.

He never mentions honking the horn (which is interesting), just shouting and waving his arms in the air. Sroads, here on this forum, went out there and says RV should have been visible all along the trail they were on.

My own theory was that if she came back toward RT after being unable to find the key to the RV (I'm guessing after 2 miles in 102-104F heat, with no wide brimmed hat, warm beer, and no water, she wanted shade and to cool off), she might have walked past where he was or gotten onto a spur trail. That could have happened when she left him, if they had both walked down to the dry creek bed. She might have remembered "path was straight" (which it was when they walked out, but now they had made little left turn and she might not have remembered that - people forget that kind of thing all the time).

“He never mentions honking the horn”
That’s strange. The horn would be louder.

 

[chihuahua]

less than 1/4 mile to rv from photo worthy rockformation, according to robbie. around 1000ft.

mighty silent abduction scenario.

Just using this post of yours' to say how very much I appreciate you being here for Barbara.
Chi

 

[chihuahua]

Following, have read the media thread and am almost finished with the other threads.
I have watched the interviews, and I am skeptical.
Will remain around and hoping and praying that there is hope for her survival.
I know the interstate system, especially I40, very well. Not familiar with that location at all however.
Sure, she could have been picked up, but IMO that's not very likely. If she had of been, why would she be in Vegas, as the husband seems to say?
Something very amiss here.
Please let this wonderful lady be found soon.
Chi

 

[Cherwell]

I also feel like if the husband were involved he would come up with a more believable story or one that placed him further away at the time of her disappearance.

Yes, I've been meaning to make this point, and you've expressed it well.

I'm not really sold on this idea but what if Barbara was actually kidnapped and the ransom conditions included a news black out.

This possibility has crossed my mind too.

 

[dbdb11]

as per suggestion i followed kelbaker from above again.

three screenshots to share. the only S bend in the road... an area that looks like a pull off big enough to fit robbie and barbs camper, plus with extra space for an additional vehicle to pull off and have been in waiting... and a parking area, i assume is the parking area robbie asserted is visible fron the hill where barb took her panorama photo.

edit: attachments not working on phone, will follow up this comment from computer