CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[chihuahua]

Well I join ya'll in waiting.
Chi

 

[CSIDreamer]

good points. i will take them to heart.

you can direct your questions to me more privately if you believe this is the wrong forum to discuss this case. WS has been a huge help to me so far.

We discuss alibis and stories all the time on here. Then we leave it to LE to sort it out. You aren't doing anything wrong.

 

[chihuahua]

In regards to the parking area where the other cars were parked, was there not one person there "enjoying" a "break" in their car, that happened to notice anything?
I realize that LE has to go on the last reported sighting, and that they need to focus on the whole timeline leading up to the time of person reported missing.
The last 24 hours is very important.
And here we have a report from the missing woman's husband. Via 911.
Once again does anyone know how long they have been married? If there was any kind of a riff between them?
Or between her and anyone? I have not seen that reported any where.
And I take it to heart what our VI is saying about there being pix taken by the missing woman, so am left wondering where the heck she is.
jmo and tia,
Chi

 

[bradfordsleuth]

JMO

One thing I can never understand in some of these cases is why LE doesn't put out a timeline of the missing person's actions as soon as they have done some fact checking. With the amount of CCTV out there, there has to be some video of them driving other than the neighbours webcam.

It could make such a difference if someone parked at XYZ gas station (for example) was getting gas at 11:30 that morning remembered seeing them in their truck pulling the RV stop for lotto tickets, or windshield washer fluid. This would prove that she was there and alive and well at that time, and narrow down the window of time and location if they were suspicious that the story her hubby provided was suspect.

Never underestimate the public's powers of observation. Look how many members WS has...!

 

[MsBetsy]

Does anyone know how long Barbara and RT have been married?

Not sure if anyone has answered yet but I believe they got married in 2006, and have been together at least 15 years.
If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure that's what the VI stated. Imo

 

[wary]

JMO
Yes so long as nothing surfaced evidence wise to point them in a different direction. I suspect the 9 days was about the maximum length of time someone could possibly stay alive in that desert area with no food or water. So I am assuming they only called it off once the "standard" amount of liveable days someone could possibly survive out there with no food or water and in that high heat.

In the Paul Miller case, if I remember right, it was close to those same number of days too before his "official" search was called off. Other volunteer searchers continued to search on their own as they had time but the official search was called off about the same number of days. I believe they use hard statistics to know when there is no hope someone could stay alive in the conditions without food or water.

Nine days in that desert without water? I think that nine hours would have required a miracle.

 

[chihuahua]

Not sure if anyone has answered yet but I believe they got married in 2006, and have been together at least 15 years.
If I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure that's what the VI stated. Imo

Thank you!

 

[chihuahua]

JMO

One thing I can never understand in some of these cases is why LE doesn't put out a timeline of the missing person's actions as soon as they have done some fact checking. With the amount of CCTV out there, there has to be some video of them driving other than the neighbours webcam.

It could make such a difference if someone parked at XYZ gas station (for example) was getting gas at 11:30 that morning remembered seeing them in their truck pulling the RV stop for lotto tickets, or windshield washer fluid. This would prove that she was there and alive and well at that time, and narrow down the window of time and location if they were suspicious that the story her hubby provided was suspect.

Never underestimate the public's powers of observation. Look how many members WS has...!

Exactly!
Chi

 

[PaulR]

Looking at a map of military instalations in the Mojave, I was surprised at how many there are. Fort Irwin would be the largest I think, but that is near Barstow. Twenty nine palms, Skunk works, China lake to name a few.
With all those restricted areas you would think there would be much satellite surveillance, aerial photo runs etc.
Planes and helicopters must be coming and going regularly.
Not saying they would be over the exact spot on the exact day. I realize you just can't call up DOD and ask for the info. Just wondering.

Many of these facilities are secure by being so isolated and in inhospitable terrain.

A good story here is the Death Valley Germans. The belief is that they were trying to head for a "military base" which they expected to be manned, monitored, etc. Instead there was nothing.

 

[MsBetsy]

Have they had dogs out searching?

Yes, they did in the beginning. There was a video showing them hard at work. Imo

 

[LAhiker]

Once on this hill Barb decided to take a panorama photo of their surroundings (which I assume includes Robbie in the panorama. If it is a 360 photo as Rob initially suggested they likely brought a 360 camera, and Barb and Robbie should both be in this image). Robbie claims the 360/panorama photo Barb took from this hill includes cars in the parking lot below, potentially even license plate numbers? and was very upset police were not looking into the owners of these cars as potential suspects (and were instead suspecting him, and seemingly ignoring his statements on the day she went missing). I assume if the cars were clearly visible in the picture, surely Rob and Barb would have been plainly visible to anyone in a car in the parking lot below the hill as well.

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, or something else about the situation, but are you saying that other cars were parked in the same area as RT? I had thought that the parking lot in which other cars were visible was not the pull-off where RT says they had the truck/camper, but rather some other parking lot that was visible in the 360 degree picture from the high point. I think that if other cars were parked right next to where RT said they pulled off, we would have heard a lot more about that by now. MOO

 

[Stripehaven]

I’m still hoping to learn what RT and LT did between 8:15 and noon, as I think I recall reading that it was about a 90-minute trip from their home to the walking/hiking location.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

delete redundant I should read before posting

 

[Twistinginthewind]

JMO

One thing I can never understand in some of these cases is why LE doesn't put out a timeline of the missing person's actions as soon as they have done some fact checking. With the amount of CCTV out there, there has to be some video of them driving other than the neighbours webcam.

It could make such a difference if someone parked at XYZ gas station (for example) was getting gas at 11:30 that morning remembered seeing them in their truck pulling the RV stop for lotto tickets, or windshield washer fluid. This would prove that she was there and alive and well at that time, and narrow down the window of time and location if they were suspicious that the story her hubby provided was suspect.

Never underestimate the public's powers of observation. Look how many members WS has...!

ITA!! I think it depends on the circumstances of the case and when LE thinks it is appropriate. They could already have narrowed down the timeline and place where BT went missing as part of their investigation, and don't need any further assistance from the public. IMO

 

[MimosaMornings]

Perhaps they stopped to gas up the truck. We would usually gas up before hooking up a trailer. Or go utilize a truck stop while hooked up. Don’t know if the truck was diesel or not. Thinking a Ford F-350 or Chevy Silverado 3500HD.

 

[dbdb11]

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, or something else about the situation, but are you saying that other cars were parked in the same area as RT? I had thought that the parking lot in which other cars were visible was not the pull-off where RT says they had the truck/camper, but rather some other parking lot that was visible in the 360 degree picture from the high point. I think that if other cars were parked right next to where RT said they pulled off, we would have heard a lot more about that by now. MOO

There is a parking lot on kelbaker road, close to where I believe they were parked. There was a parking lot in robbies account as well. Some other ppl have posted different pull off points than I have. The pull off point I am looking at and the parking lot are very differrent places, on either side of an s bend in the shape of the road.

I was surprised they walked to a place from which a parking lot was visible, because the whole point of the walk, and the trip, I interpreted as being to escape things like parking lots. In my own experience, when exploring new areas, you can suddenly come upon a road or building, even though moments earlier you were in "pristine" wilderness. Just observations.

 

[chihuahua]

Perhaps they stopped to gas up the truck. We would usually gas up before booking up a trailer. Or go utilize a truck stop while hooked up. Don’t know if the truck was diesel or not. Thinking a Ford F-350 or Chevy Silverado 3500HD.

Yes good thinking, and most gas stations and all truck stops have video.
There is a lot we don't know yet, imo.
Like in every other case. Many times, video clues solve these cases.
Chi

 

[chihuahua]

There is a parking lot on kelbaker road, close to where I believe they were parked. There was a parking lot in robbies account as well. Some other ppl have posted different pull off points than I have. The pull off point I am looking at and the parking lot are very differrent places, on either side of an s bend in the shape of the road.

I was surprised they walked to a place from which a parking lot was visible, because the whole point of the walk, and the trip, I interpreted as being to escape things like parking lots. In my own experience, when exploring new areas, you can suddenly come upon a road or building, even though moments earlier you were in "pristine" wilderness. Just observations.

Very interesting I think.
Chi

 

[artsy1]

FIND ATTACHED and definitely take a look on your own if you'd like.

They parked the camper on the pull off, just speculating here of course, hid truck/RV key under a rock they both would be able to find quite easily, they crossed over Kelbaker road (with a camera?, a gallon of water, at least one beer in a travel mug or coozie?, Barb in either bikini top or possibly bra? Robbie carrying a pack of some kind?), once on the other side of the road they proceeded to walk (NOT HIKE) approx 2 miles (exactly 2.2 miles according to Robbie's correspondence with us) towards a hill that could be seen from the parking area just ahead of where they pulled off the road.

Once on this hill Barb decided to take a panorama photo of their surroundings (which I assume includes Robbie in the panorama. If it is a 360 photo as Rob initially suggested they likely brought a 360 camera, and Barb and Robbie should both be in this image). Robbie claims the 360/panorama photo Barb took from this hill includes cars in the parking lot below, potentially even license plate numbers? and was very upset police were not looking into the owners of these cars as potential suspects (and were instead suspecting him, and seemingly ignoring his statements on the day she went missing). I assume if the cars were clearly visible in the picture, surely Rob and Barb would have been plainly visible to anyone in a car in the parking lot below the hill as well.

As they were on the way back from the hill, towards their RV, there was a rock formation Robbie implies they were both interested in. He stopped to take a photo of this rock formation and "asked Barb to stay with me," but she went on ahead anyway. Sounds quite stubborn of her. Perhaps they had some kind of disagreement? In any case, he says she wanted to get back to the RV.

This is where Barb rounds a corner, we can assume she rounds a boulder outcrop that puts her out of Robbie's sight. Robbie has never specified how long he spent taking photos of this rock formation, but he claimed to us that police have photos of Barb on the walk, that day, and that police have photos of the rock formation as well. Robbie and Barb have no known social media accounts where they share photos of their adventures with friends/family.

As Robbie made his way back to the RV he did not have any concerns. The RV was less than 1/4 mile (1000 ft) away from where he last saw her, he has claimed, and was never concerned about how far ahead she could have gotten, between him and the RV. He made his way back to the RV and was not immediately concerned that he didn't see her there. He was hot, he has told us, and poured some water on a towel and put it on his head. After a few minutes of her not turning up he began to grow concerned. He did not immediately look for any signs of tire tracks, or signs of abduction/kidnapping. He proceeded to shout and wave his arms, as well as backtrack to a cave they both knew was in the area. His thinking was, perhaps she went there to get out of the sun (between when she left him and the few minutes it took him to get back to the RV from the rock formation).

According to public records he called the police around 3pm?, and according to Robbie they arrived two hours after he called? On arrival the search and rescue crews destroyed any evidence of a potential crime scene, according to Robbie. If this account is accurate, what did Robbie do in those two hours?

Robbie served in Vietnam, and also has years of experience visiting the Mojave desert, including familiarity with Kelbaker's immediate geological features, and, I would assume, a keen sense for his surroundings. He didn't think to look for signs of abduction, or a struggle? He didn't follow up with the cars parked in the parking lot just down the road (but did check in a cave???)? He didn't look for signs of a struggle around the RV but concludes she must have been abducted? That abduction is the ONLY logical conclusion?

I think we are missing some vital information here and would like to hear a much more detailed account of what Robbie did between taking photos of the rock formation, returning to the RV, searching the area for Barb, calling police, and search and rescue finally arriving. I think our timeline of events could do with clarification.



FOR REFERENCE:
Walking speed 1000 meters or 1 kilometer per 10 minutes ( m/min – km/min ), converted to foot per 10 minutes equals 3280.84 feet per 10 minutes ( ft/min ).
According to the above generalisation Robbie was approx 3 plus MINUTES away from the RV.



I would like to include some further speculation for everyone to consider. Robbie drove across state lines to the only S on a quiet road, the first stage of an otherwise undefined camping trip. He hasn't told any of us anymore about what this trip entailed, or what they were initially planning. They pulled off the road in a place with enough room for other cars to pull off as well. They began their walk in the Mojave around/ or not long after HIGH NOON, in RECORD HEAT. This all happened on a Friday, a weekday, when many others who might otherwise be hiking and exploring the desert area, would have more likely been at work. Regular hikers familiar with the area, and other locals have expressed it would be foolish and naive to wander into the Mojave for a casual walk at this time of day (unless of course your plans required not being seen by anyone else).

Just so you are aware, the closest sheriff station to the Kelbaker Rd is in Needles, an hour and a half away. So if it only took 2 hours for them and searchers to arrive, then they jumped right on the call.

 

[chihuahua]

Have a possum in my trap. Seriously.
Back in a few.
C