CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[happyday]

Good point.

Even the VI has not seen the photos....
One would think Barbara's own family would demand to see them and sadly were told 'no' by LE ?

Hoping this weekend when we're all taking a forced break from WS that she'll be found, or there'll be significant evidence revealed .

I hope so! I feel like at this point we’re just waiting for something.

Going to keep on the media! Hope everyone else does too. She needs more coverage!

 

[happyday]

I hope so! I feel like at this point we’re just waiting for something.

Going to keep on the media! Hope everyone else does too. She needs more coverage!

ETA Today I emailed one of the podcasts I listen to and told them about Barbara. Never know who will cover her case.

 

[Nerissa]

We can look two ways at LE:

They don't care about BT

Or they've a good darn idea what's happened & don't need our help

I'm convinced it's the latter

JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

ETA Today I emailed one of the podcasts I listen to and told them about Barbara. Never know who will cover her case.

Thank you.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Good point.

Even the VI has not seen the photos....
One would think Barbara's own family would demand to see them and sadly were told 'no' by LE ?

Hoping this weekend when we're all taking a forced break from WS that she'll be found, or there'll be significant evidence revealed .

Wouldn't that be great news to come back to?On another note, I don't expect LE to give out information publicly that would be evidence in the investigation. What I would love to hear from them is that there is an active investigation going on now or if it's gone cold. It's gone quiet except for what's discussed here as far as I know. Maybe I missed something, but I can't recall an update from LE since the search ended. I would just like to know if anything at all is happening.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Well, it's hard to say whether or not that's what happened in Barbara's case but it would not surprise me if she made a wrong turn at some point and got lost.

It's great to hear from people who have been on that trail so we can have an idea of what it is like.

I have been on trails in the woods before and have had a hard time trying to go back the exact way I came but I'm not familiar with the desert.
Many trails have marks or arrows to indicate which way to go.
I wonder if there were any on the trail leading to the rock formations. Imo

It is an unmarked trail in rough wilderness literally in the middle of the Mojave Desert where they pulled off on the side of the road and decided to go for a walk to check out some rock formations up the trail aways according to RT. They were the only ones there. There were no signs or arrows or marks, just the trail. MOO

 

[Ninety5rpm]

This reminds me a little of the Mickey Guidry case, in which the young man disappeared in the Anza Borrego desert almost ten years ago. He drove miles down a wash (unpaved road) to a point where his broken-down vehicle was found. Very desolate area so abduction is almost inconceivable. But, he just disappeared. No trace.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

This reminds me a little of the Mickey Guidry case, in which the young man disappeared in the Anza Borrego desert almost ten years ago. He drove miles down a wash (unpaved road) to a point where his broken-down vehicle was found. Very desolate area so abduction is almost inconceivable. But, he just disappeared. No trace.

That sounds like he went out there on purpose - he drove his vehicle out into the desert on his own?

BT was with her dear husband walking within less than a mile of their RV when she went missing while they were on a camping trip.

They both went missing in the desert of So Cal, and haven't been found, but that's all they have in common, IMO.

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

This reminds me a little of the Mickey Guidry case, in which the young man disappeared in the Anza Borrego desert almost ten years ago. He drove miles down a wash (unpaved road) to a point where his broken-down vehicle was found. Very desolate area so abduction is almost inconceivable. But, he just disappeared. No trace.

Same thing happened to the kid who lived behind me, my neighbor all the time I was growing up. At around age 22, he went for a hike in a much less desolate place than Anza Borrego (within Los Padres National Forest). His dog was found, he was never found.

There is one main trail at Granite Hills (where Barbara went missing) and then a network of trails, some of which look pretty much the same as the main one, especially in summer when there's foliage; then there are spur trails, and tiny trails that lead up in the rock formations at various points).

Someone here on Websleuths said that if she were lost, in this situation, she would head to higher ground (to the rock formations) even though the truck was in the opposite direction (and the road). I find that perplexing and interesting, but the WSer said that if scared, she'd figured she'd be seen there and it was an obvious point to aim for (something like that).

 

[Stripehaven]

Well, it's hard to say whether or not that's what happened in Barbara's case but it would not surprise me if she made a wrong turn at some point and got lost.

It's great to hear from people who have been on that trail so we can have an idea of what it is like.

I have been on trails in the woods before and have had a hard time trying to go back the exact way I came but I'm not familiar with the desert.
Many trails have marks or arrows to indicate which way to go.
I wonder if there were any on the trail leading to the rock formations. Imo

If she did get lost, it’s extra sad that RT waited an hour or more before summoning help. Who knows how far she could have wandered in that length of time - without water or much sun protection.

 

[10ofRods]

But BT was already on the trail. She did not need to cut across the desert because she was on the trail, in sight of the RV, and only 1/4 of a mile from the a/c and cold water.

We think so. It seems to me she was probably at the intersection of the two trails (and may have actually followed RT a hundred yards or more before realizing he meant to go another 1000 feet to photograph some rocks). We just don't know. She might have thought they stayed on the same trail (because the intersection of the two trails isn't marked and isn't completely linear).

We just don't know. We do know that the search included helicopters (who fly increasing distances around the perimeter of the missing person's presumed location, based on variables used commonly in searches).

 

[rosesfromangels]

We can look two ways at LE:

They don't care about BT

Or they've a good darn idea what's happened & don't need our help

I'm convinced it's the latter

JMO

I believe they care, but perhaps they believe any additional attempts would be futile and put others in danger. Sad, but possibly their POV. Just amateur speculation and opinion only

 

[kkdj]

I have a hard time thinking she is still out there will all the searches that went on.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM.

You call them hills, I call them rocks, or more properly, rock formations. Here are two screenshots from Google Earth, one showing the whole area with its various paths, and the other focused in on the larger rock formation on the south side of the creek bed, which I'm guessing was the goal of RT's and BT's walk.

That said, they look climbable, so maybe it doesn't matter what we call them. Still, I'm wondering whether RT would've referred to rock formation as a hill. Also, @dbdb11's sister recalled that RT in a call to family said BT took the 360 photo that morning, which doesn't fit with an early afternoon walk from Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. Again, the time-line is muddled. So maybe the 360 photo was taken from somewhere else??

On the other hand, if the 360 was taken from somewhere else, it's hard to see why RT thought the cars in the parking lot would be relevant to a possible abduction, unless he thought someone was following their truck or was clutching at straws. It's a conundrum.



CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

The 360 photo aside, that's definitely the area where RT said BT disappeared; I agree with your other points. (I don't know whether the specialities of RT's attorney have been discussed in MSM.)

JMO

I'm calling them "hills" because they are known as the Granite Hills (for one reason) and because people here have been referring to them as hills since I came onto this thread. Of course they are rock formations. From a distance, to many people driving by, they do look like "hills" (although all hills have rocks inside of them).

Some of them are way more climbable than others. The highest part of the Granite Hills would not, I think, be accessible in a mere 1-2 hour hike. They are the darker rocks, too, and the temps there would have been higher. I wish we knew exactly where they went, but I'd bet good money they didn't go to the dark, taller part of that set of rocks - they went to the sandstone outcropping to the north (probably) or maybe even the one north of the creekbed (from which that northern square parking lot is visible). We see in the search photos that the dogs and SAR personnel are in the sandstone area.

To me, it's inconceivable that she would leave RT, and instead of heading toward the road, walk toward the really obvious opposite direction to the tallest point in the area (the granite). I don't think she walked back up those sandstone rock formations, either. That would have been so exerting and she was tired and hot. MOO.

It is so confusing. If she did head back toward any part of the Granite Hills/rocks, those were searched, but boy is that a weird thing to do. If she chose the wrong trail and headed south, she'd still hit the road. If she went north, she'd have run into RT again, and if she went the proper direction (east), she'd be at the RV within 5-7 minutes even at a slow pace.

It's easy to go to the grim proposition of "she was in the desert that day, and may have been atop those rock formations, but that's not where she went missing."

Or...she was in a very different state of mind than a calm woman, perfectly healthy, attempting to get to her RV for A/C and a brew.

1. Granite Hills from the RV's POV (with the sandstone boulders to the right):

2. Granite Hills closer up, with better pictures of the sandstone boulders:

I've been inviting a few Mojave-based community groups to stop by this thread, so I keep posting the photos (ATV users, archers, rock collectors).

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have a hard time thinking she is still out there will all the searches that went on.

Similar situation with Paul Miller in Joshua Tree National Park. On the trail, seen by another hiker, then "poof".

 

[LietKynes]

If RT really wanted to find Barbara, even though he's lawyered up, he'd aid in search efforts by being very clear about their route. He would not rely entirely on LE, but would appeal to the public (who goes out there to recreate) to look for Barbara. He'd ask the people who work at Kelso Depot to put up pictures with the exact spots they visited (his pictures, obviously).

However, he has stated she disappeared in a specific spot (that he will not fully describe to the public). People posting here have mentioned that if they were lost, they might go back to a point where they recognized something (like the granite outcropping). So RT should at least provide a picture of it. He doesn't know whether she was slowly becoming confused due to heat.

By insisting she was abducted, though, he doesn't have to do any of that. And by saying LE considers him a suspect, he has an excuse to lawyer up.

Most of us, if our beloved spouses were missing, would (even if we were suspects) be doing all we could, on every avenue, to find our spouse. Even if I thought DH had been abducted, I'd still be looking at the "DH is lost" angle, intensely.

I think that many of us are troubled by all of this and feel helpless to do much.

We either take RT's words as truth or we consider the alternative (that his account may not contain much information helpful to finding Barbara...) I have said many times that he misspent his televised time by not getting useful details out. He could change that immediately, if he wanted to.

Bumping this great post !

 

[MsBetsy]

If she did get lost, it’s extra sad that RT waited an hour or more before summoning help. Who knows how far she could have wandered in that length of time - without water or much sun protection.

Well, it's never been verified what time he called or how long he actually searched for her before calling LE.
Even if he called 911 immediately before he went back to look for her, it's hard to say whether they would have found her or not.
Did we ever find out exactly what time the call was made or how long it took LE to arrive?
Even if they arrived 10 minutes after the call I doubt they would have organized a search team in just minutes.
Do we know what time that day they started searching?

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a hard time thinking she is still out there will all the searches that went on.

Does anyone renember how many searchers there were?
I thought I read 20 but that can't be right.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Well, it's never been verified what time he called or how long he actually searched for her before calling LE.
Even if he called 911 immediately before he went back to look for her, it's hard to say whether they would have found her or not.
Did we ever find out exactly what time the call was made or how long it took LE to arrive?
Even if they arrived 10 minutes after the call I doubt they would have organized a search team in just minutes.
Do we know what time that day they started searching?

There are statements in MSM that it took LE 2 - 2.5 hours to arrive at the location he called from.
There is a 911 dispatch log that shows RT calling at 3:26 pm.
So LE would have arrived between about 5:30 and 6:00 pm.
LE interviewed RT and set up for searching for BT and did so that evening, and for the next 8 days.
MOO
ETA: This info is on the Media Thread with MSM links for Barbara

 

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone renember how many searchers there were?
I thought I read 20 but that can't be right.

The number varied. In the beginning there were 20, one day there was 80, and on other days, LE didn't specify. MOO