CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[BeachSky]

Totally agree. And I get waiting and hoping she is found before calling family, but to do an interview first? You can’t possibly know that someone else would see that interview and contact family before you did. I don’t know what exactly happened to Barb, but I do know this lady needs to be found! MOO

This!
Spot on!

 

[Cherwell]

Totally agree. And I get waiting and hoping she is found before calling family, but to do an interview first? You can’t possibly know that someone else would see that interview and contact family before you did. I don’t know what exactly happened to Barb, but I do know this lady needs to be found! MOO

No, but it sounds like that all happened pretty much at the same time. I get the impression that hopes of finding her had dwindled to the point where he needed to do it. The abduction idea was just clutching at straws.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, but the source of all that information is still the VI, just as the source for the pictures of Barbara in the desert is the VI.
That was the point that I thought was being made.
So no matter what LE said or what the neighbors said, the source remains the same. Imo

Yes. Exactly.

Without the VI, we have no time of departure from Bullhead City at all. LE has not confirmed.

So, without the VI we also have no convenience store, no kennel.

That was my point. And if we’re going to exclude the VI’s information, then there’s really not much to discuss beside the NIXLE bulletins. We can’t use the West Valley SAR material from the search as it was on twitter.

So, the thread would get really really quiet. I do hope that doesn’t happen.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes. Exactly.

Without the VI, we have no time of departure from Bullhead City at all. LE has not confirmed.

So, without the VI we also have no convenience store, no kennel.

That was my point. And if we’re going to exclude the VI’s information, then there’s really not much to discuss beside the NIXLE bulletins. We can’t use the West Valley SAR material from the search as it was on twitter.

So, the thread would get really really quiet. I do hope that doesn’t happen.

Not directed at you. I'm just trying to figure out why we are excluding the VI information, suggesting the VI is lying, etc. I'm at a loss here.

 

[Gigi3]

No, but it sounds like that all happened pretty much at the same time. I get the impression that hopes of finding her had dwindled to the point where he needed to do it. The abduction idea was just clutching at straws.

And you could definitely be correct. I’ve thought about so many different scenarios concerning what happened to Barb. I just think, I personally, would’ve reached out to family just to see if maybe they had heard from her, even if that was a long shot.
I’ve thought about maybe if they had an argument and she stalked off from him, I still would’ve tried to contact the family in hopes that maybe she somehow changed her flight and left early to HK.
If I only have RT’s story to go on, then yes, I have to search that area, but even his story has me side eyeing some parts and then compound that with choosing to believe what our gracious VI has provided, I personally have to look at other angles here. MOO!

 

[LAhiker]

Yes. Exactly.

Without the VI, we have no time of departure from Bullhead City at all. LE has not confirmed.

So, without the VI we also have no convenience store, no kennel.

That was my point. And if we’re going to exclude the VI’s information, then there’s really not much to discuss beside the NIXLE bulletins. We can’t use the West Valley SAR material from the search as it was on twitter.

So, the thread would get really really quiet. I do hope that doesn’t happen.

I agree that it's important to include the VI's information in our understanding of the case.

Was the West Valley SAR stuff on their official Twitter account? I thought we could use info from LE sources, including SAR groups.

And yes, we should keep the case in the public eye.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

Not directed at you. I'm just trying to figure out why we are excluding the VI information, suggesting the VI is lying, etc. I'm at a loss here.

I don’t know why either. I guess there’s nothing else to do but to deconstruct the entire case.

For me, it’s way more productive to have those essential pieces provided by the VI in the timeline. I say this because until some other news comes forward, I still think Barbara is somewhere within the confines of the Mojave National Preserve.

Since LE told VI no further searches planned at this time, my best guess is that there’s not a lot of evidence of RT driving to another place within the preserve. I think they would have known this early and I do not believe LE relied entirely on RT’s statements to decide where to search.

It was a 10 day operation, with 9 days of searching, several of which were obviously more body recovery technique than they were living person technique. There are pictures of the command area and we can see that the paramedics are not on standby. They start searching crevices and are fully involved with that on Day 8.

No one can live for 8 days in that area without water. My own mind goes to the immediate hours when Barbara went missing (whenever that was, exactly). I do not buy the abduction story, but at the same time I suppose stranger things have happened. Since I can’t quite fathom an abduction, then I have to doubt RT’s statements about being merely 5 minutes behind her.

My own intuition says that Barbara did not develop confusion due to heat exhaustion on that short hike. But she could have developed it as the afternoon wore on.

I remain steadfastly behind my statement that RT has been extremely non-forthcoming with details. Each time he’s been given an opportunity to speak (and after rewatching the early interview and the IE interview again and again I am not convinced there were two interviews at all).

 

[10ofRods]

I agree that it's important to include the VI's information in our understanding of the case.

Was the West Valley SAR stuff on their official Twitter account? I thought we could use info from LE sources, including SAR groups.

And yes, we should keep the case in the public eye.

JMO

Yes, it was their official Twitter and as of yesterday, it was all still there.

 

[firstsleuth]

I would be upset and worried for sure, but I don't think I would be angry.

Because looking at it from the other side, I (as the spouse) would be hoping against hope that the searches would find her, and find her alive. And I would be very reluctant to worry her family, especially as her brother is seriously ill. My hope would be that they didn't need to know until she had been found. Sadly of course this hasn't happened, but without the benefit of hindsight I would wait to call them too.

So I think I would understand why I (as a close family member) wasn't told right away. Of course I would say "Why didn't you tell me !!!!" as it would all be a shock, but I would realise why once I'd calmed down.

Thank you @Cherwell...I value your opinion and all that keep us from victim blaming...I really like that your post helped me look inside and try to be more empathetic and understanding

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Not directed at you. I'm just trying to figure out why we are excluding the VI information, suggesting the VI is lying, etc. I'm at a loss here.

To be clear, I am not. I believe everything he has shared 100%

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

dbdb11 spoke with the convenience store clerk. The clerk told him that LE had video from that day.

IMO, dbdb11 was not advised by LE about the stop for ice. I think it's safe to assume that LE has spoken with the clerk, though. MOO

BBM

dbdb11 spoke with the convenience store clerk. The clerk told him that LE had video from that day.

IMO, dbdb11 was not advised by LE about the stop for ice. I think it's safe to assume that LE has spoken with the clerk, though. MOO

Why would Dbdb11 then call that convenience store? We even had an address for it, IIRC. There are so many of those stores in Needles. Did Dbdb call each one of them? why would he even think to do that? One would assume they had ice already and they could have stopped at grocery stores too. It seems odd to me that Dbdb (unaware of the fact that it was an ice stop) would call several stores and just ask if someone had seen RT (describing him over the phone?) and a 5th wheel.

Dbdb had to know about the ice stop from somewhere and I don’t think RT is the source. I do hope Dbdb stops by again soon.

 

[LAhiker]

Why would Dbdb11 then call that convenience store? We even had an address for it, IIRC. There are so many of those stores in Needles. Did Dbdb call each one of them? why would he even think to do that? One would assume they had ice already and they could have stopped at grocery stores too. It seems odd to me that Dbdb (unaware of the fact that it was an ice stop) would call several stores and just ask if someone had seen RT (describing him over the phone?) and a 5th wheel.

Dbdb had to know about the ice stop from somewhere and I don’t think RT is the source. I do hope Dbdb stops by again soon.

As @PommyMommy has said, this case has been discussed on other platforms besides WS. It's possible that @dbdb11 got a tip from someone on one of those other platforms.

Note that if LE spoke with the convenience store clerk, the convenience store clerk also spoke with LE. Having LE stop by a business and ask questions related to a case might well excite interest in the case on the part of the person questioned and others associated with the business.

JMO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

<modsnip> our VI said he called the store himself, I think we can attribute credibility there. Which is handy

 

[Cherwell]

Thank you @Cherwell...I value your opinion and all that keep us from victim blaming...I really like that your post helped me look inside and try to be more empathetic and understanding

Thank you
I meant to add that someone else (sorry, can't remember who it was just now) mentioned that RT may very well feel guilty. Not because he harmed Barbara, but because he was with her and feels responsible, that he let her out of his sight, that he should have taken better care of her etc.
All the more if in fact they did have an argument (conjecture only but it would explain some things - he probably wouldn't want to admit it to her family.)
If he does feel that way, it would also be natural that he would want to put off the dreaded phone call.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes. Exactly.

Without the VI, we have no time of departure from Bullhead City at all. LE has not confirmed.

So, without the VI we also have no convenience store, no kennel.

That was my point. And if we’re going to exclude the VI’s information, then there’s really not much to discuss beside the NIXLE bulletins. We can’t use the West Valley SAR material from the search as it was on twitter.

So, the thread would get really really quiet. I do hope that doesn’t happen.

Yes, I understand. I don't think anyone is excluding the VI's information, except maybe the pictures that show that Barbara was there, which is what the point was in the OP I replied to.

Almost everything we have discussed so far comes from the VI, or from things Robert told the family.

I still think it would be very helpful to have some information from LE, though. Very often it turns out that there is significant evidence that comes out later that changes the entire scenario that we never would have thought of.
Imo

 

[10ofRods]

I am pretty sure that is what happened, yes.

Ah, okay. Makes sense. And then Dbdb posts about his call here (including that LE contacted clerk).

We know that Dbdb does speak to the detective from time to time, though.

I’m pretty disappointed though, that the clerk tip comes from SM. People like to insert themselves into cases, especially online. So we don’t really know for sure that LE went and got video from that store. I think it’s likely the clerk saw RT that day, but I am now not so certain that LE really went out there or had contact with this person.

There have been several people on SM who turned out to be either unreliable or not actually able to report from personal experience in the manner that they did on Twitter. IOW, they were embellishing. MOO.

 

[LietKynes]

Not directed at you. I'm just trying to figure out why we are excluding the VI information, suggesting the VI is lying, etc. I'm at a loss here.

Agreed.^^^

But just wanted to say that not all of us think he is not being truthful.
I think he's telling it from what he's been told.
So if something comes up and is not entirely correct--- it's because of someone else ! Not going to discuss who that may be -- due to TOS.
I also feel bad for Barbara's son who was not even told by the husband but by other sources.
Disgraceful.

 

[cazador]

You are to nice about SM 10ofRods

 

[K9Enzo]

I can understand the criticism of RT, to a point, for not calling her family right away after she went missing.

Many of us probably shape our opinions based on our own views and experience.

I would be very upset if my husband called my parents right away if I could not be located on a outdoor outing/hike.

Would my parents want to know right away? Yes. But them knowing in the frenzy of information gathering and resources being pulled together would serve zero purpose but to cause panic. They would be in the way and have a thousand questions that could not be answered. I love them dearly but that’s how I feel when S hits the fan. No way would I call my in-laws right away either. The less people in the mix initially, the better. That’s ok if that makes me a jerk or whatever.

In many cases lost hikers, explorers, (whoever) who go missing are found. Hopefully it’s a neat story to tell everyone after the dust settles.

So, I don’t come down on him for this. People who are clear thinkers in most situations, can be the opposite under a stressful situation such as this. I have seen people come unhinged and not even remember the kind of car the spouse drives. Outlandish theories galore.

We also don’t know who else RT called. We don’t really know much about BT. Maybe he called a family member or dear friend of hers immediately. Who knows. But he did call 911 in a reasonable amount of time. All my opinion.

 

[MsBetsy]

Agreed.^^^

But just wanted to say that not all of us think he is not being truthful.
I think he's telling it from what he's been told.
So if something comes up and is not entirely correct--- it's because of someone else ! Not going to discuss who that may be -- due to TOS.
I also feel bad for Barbara's son who was not even told by the husband but by other sources.
Disgraceful.

Yes, I haven't seen anyone suggest he's not being truthful. We have been going by the timeline he provided (from what he knows) the whole time.
I wonder where he is lately and how he's doing.
I also wonder if he has managed to talk to RT since the last time which seems to have been a very long time ago.
We have not heard a word of what he has been up to lately. Imo