CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #2

[bourne]

I thought that it was very controlled and collected. But it was also very arrogant and delusional how he shouted out to celebs as if he were some sort of martyr. That was written though before all of the heat was on him, so who knows how he is reacting now.

I really don't think that he has anyone helping him. For one thing, I don't think that anyone would be stupid enough to help him, plus a million dollar bounty would be hard to pass up. Money talks. And another, he clearly thinks that he is better than most as evidenced by his manifesto so I don't think that he would ever ask for help. I think the manifesto was his way of letting certain people know how he feels since he will probably never see them again.

Agree, Dorner suffers from delusions of grandeur. He thinks he's all that, and that the celebrities are on par with his status. Sad really.

I don't think anyone would willingly aid him in his murder mission. But I do think there are some gullible people who buy into his anti-LAPD rant -- ooh, the white patriarchal system is oppressing me -- and they (likely women) would help harbor him as a fugitive. I think some women who gravitate towards melodrama and the rescuer complex would help hide and "nurse" him. I think men, on the contrary, would give him up for the $1Mil reward.

 

[bourne]

Yes, that I definitely agree with. He has to be a very angry individual to hold onto a grudge that happened in elementary school. I wonder if the LAPD saw that and used the kicking incident as their leverage to get rid of him. Whether or not he was wronged in the beginning, he clearly should not be a police officer.

Don't they have psych evals before hiring LE?

I also think they should have regular psych evals for all LE in order to identify potential nutcases like Dorner.

 

[jjenny]

I am sure they do have psych evaluation. But Dorner isn't insane, IMO. He knows what he is doing.

 

[bourne]

This is a very interesting article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-hunt-20130211,0,7657304.story

Especially this:

"In the search for accused killer Christopher Dorner, police are poring over clues to answer another perplexing question: Is Dorner a methodical, well-trained professional? Or is he a panicked amateur in over his head?"

^^Which I'm wondering myself. It has been quiet for a few days now, so is he planning his next move or wondering how he is going to get out of this mess that he created? Only time will tell I guess.

I think he's running scared. He had made some preliminary plans, but they didn't pan out for him, e.g., stealing the boat. He couldn't bring himself to kill the innocent boatowner. There's also a reward out for his arrest. He's likely shaking like a leaf somewhere. He may even be having second thoughts about his murder/suicide mission.

OTOH, he could lounging on the beach in Tijuana, drinking and laughing at the turmoil and fear he caused in LA.

 

[bourne]

I am sure they do have psych evaluation. But Dorner isn't insane, IMO. He knows what he is doing.

Depends on what you mean by insane. I think legally he would not be considered insane because as you say, he knows what he is doing, and clearly can differentiate between right and wrong so he can't use the sanity defense in court -- if he ever gets there. But he is crazy in that he suffers from extreme paranoia and delusions, as well as intense rage and entitlement issues.

A good psychologist/psychiatrist would have been able to weed out his mental defects.

 

[MOsborne05]

Don't they have psych evals before hiring LE?

I also think they should have regular psych evals for all LE in order to identify potential nutcases like Dorner.

Depends on the agency. I'm a dispatcher, but at my last job even the dispatchers had to get psych evals. When I came to my current job, I was surprised that I didn't have to get one and the officers don't have to either. I think that they probably should, although after taking one I don't think it would be too hard to fool.

 

[wfgodot]

Christopher Dorner's college minor is in psychology. I'm assuming he could mask behaviors effectively.

 

[popsicle]

Don't they have psych evals before hiring LE?

I also think they should have regular psych evals for all LE in order to identify potential nutcases like Dorner.

I agree and to clarify...the psych evals show any issues with whatever.

My SIL was in the USMC, now the Sercret Service and has just accepted a job with the county police force. The testing was very intensive and the interview process lengthy. They only had 2 positions open and hundreds applied.

I read something the other day where a guy successfully sued after not being hired because he was too honest. This was for a police job. (no link)

 

[Sonya610]

Yes, that I definitely agree with. He has to be a very angry individual to hold onto a grudge that happened in elementary school. I wonder if the LAPD saw that and used the kicking incident as their leverage to get rid of him. Whether or not he was wronged in the beginning, he clearly should not be a police officer.

Didn't the manifesto also say he tried to choke two other officers for using a racial slur? And then go on to say he should have just murdered them on the spot?

Pretty sure the other officers decided they did NOT want him watching their back nor did they want him trying to choke/attack them whenever he got upset.

That would certainly provide a reason to drive him out one way or another!

 

[Gin]

I think he's running scared. He had made some preliminary plans, but they didn't pan out for him, e.g., stealing the boat. He couldn't bring himself to kill the innocent boatowner. There's also a reward out for his arrest. He's likely shaking like a leaf somewhere. He may even be having second thoughts about his murder/suicide mission.

OTOH, he could lounging on the beach in Tijuana, drinking and laughing at the turmoil and fear he caused in LA.

Great points. Another thought-I've lived a few places that experienced prolonged natural disasters. The most "able" folks can sometimes totally be a mess when their relatively usual routines are altered. I don't think he's a roll with the punches kind of guy. He may have set up the plan, but executing it 24 hours a day is another thing.
Very different, too, than a military school. The students always have a good idea of the end date, and often rumors of what they will experience.

If he's not frozen, (or in Tijuana...) the hunter may well be experiencing fear of suddenly being the hunted. Good.

 

[tezi]

Christopher Dorner's college minor is in psychology. I'm assuming he could mask behaviors effectively.

^^^^
This, I totally agree with. He could mask them during an evaluation (or a controlled setting), but masking them in real world spontaneous interactions is much harder. That is why he couldn't cut it being a LAPD officer.

JMO, IMO, :moo: , and all other disclaimers.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

You don't need to give a name or SSN for those cheap phones. They usually sell for about $14 and you can buy minute cards, all with cash. If you want one with internet capability you may have to pay about $30 for it, but you can still pay cash for it and the minutes. Family Dollar and Dollar General types stores are not going to ask for any personal info. Extra cards can also be bought at any drug store or WalMart at the counter and they are not going to ask for any personal info either.

bbm...You don't need to give SSN or a name for those expensive phones either.

This guy may have a top of the line phone with internet access. No personal information needed - real or fake.

 

[Sonya610]

If he's not frozen, (or in Tijuana...) the hunter may well be experiencing fear of suddenly being the hunted. Good.

I absolutely agree. At this point he is tired, possibly cold, stressed out etc....it is not as grand and exciting as he thought.

Plus if his whole plan was to wreak revenge on the LAPD officers and then go out in a blaze of glory then why in the heck did he run to Big Bear? Why not stay in the city and knock off as many of his targets as quickly as he could (before they realized what was happening).

Spree killers on a mission generally have to act fast before their energy/excitement gets depleted, at this point his "Grand Plan" is long over and he is desperate.

 

[MOsborne05]

Didn't the manifesto also say he tried to choke two other officers for using a racial slur? And then go on to say he should have just murdered them on the spot?

Pretty sure the other officers decided they did NOT want him watching their back nor did they want him trying to choke/attack them whenever he got upset.

That would certainly provide a reason to drive him out one way or another!

Yep! And those were only the incidents that he wanted us to know so who knows what else went on behind the scenes. I'm sure they realized pretty quickly that he was a loose cannon.

 

[MOsborne05]

I absolutely agree. At this point he is tired, possibly cold, stressed out etc....it is not as grand and exciting as he thought.

Plus if his whole plan was to wreak revenge on the LAPD officers and then go out in a blaze of glory then why in the heck did he run to Big Bear? Why not stay in the city and knock off as many of his targets as quickly as he could (before they realized what was happening).

Spree killers on a mission generally have to act fast before their energy/excitement gets depleted, at this point his "Grand Plan" is long over and he is desperate.

That's why I don't understand why he published that manifesto. It's different if the police were to find it while searching his house weeks later, but he published it for the world to see. Which is either really stupid, or really telling of just how arrogant he really is. I'm very curious as to what he is thinking now.

 

[Sonya610]

That's why I don't understand why he published that manifesto. It's different if the police were to find it while searching his house weeks later, but he published it for the world to see. Which is either really stupid, or really telling of just how arrogant he really is. I'm very curious as to what he is thinking now.

Well if the LAPD found it they wouldn't have released it! I think it was about ego as listing off the targets would be counterproductive, also the manifesto is trying hard to get people on his side, he keeps mentioning "hot button" topics in the hope it triggers civil unrest or copycats IMO.

Course the fact the manifesto has been released WHILE he is on the run certainly does give it more coverage. If they found it after he was dead then people may not take much interest in it, especially his target audience.

 

[Gin]

That's why I don't understand why he published that manifesto. It's different if the police were to find it while searching his house weeks later, but he published it for the world to see. Which is either really stupid, or really telling of just how arrogant he really is. I'm very curious as to what he is thinking now.

Do you think it was his way of attempting to shame and punish people he felt wronged him? Make them quake in their boots, even the score--from his perspective?

Because "logically" you are right. It makes no sense, particularly operationally.

 

[jjenny]

\
Do you think it was his way of attempting to shame and punish people he felt wronged him? Make them quake in their boots, even the score--from his perspective?

Because "logically" you are right. It makes no sense, particularly operationally.

It makes no sense if the goal is to kill as many people as possible. But if the goal is to terrify as many people as possible then publishing the manifesto is obviously very effective.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Yup, exactly what I was thinking! Maybe there would be more open terrain to hide out in in Mexico? I dunno....but with a $1 mil bounty on his head he will be as at risk there as he is here, or maybe even more so.

Don't interpret this as cop bashing BUT if I were heading up the LAPD I would realize if this guy is taken alive and ends up rambling his crazy b_s during the trial and afterwards he will be turned into a HUGE MARTYR which will likely cause more problems in the city for the police and the citizens.

I am sure the LAPD is much more ethical, I however would want this guy DEAD fast by any means possible so he can't continue to cause problems.

I highly doubt he is in Mexico...unless after Big Bear he realized he didn't actually really want to die now that it was inevitable and he decided to get some help to get him across the border. He would be miserable in Mexico since all of his "beef" that he can't let go for the life of him (literally!) is in California. He would also have a very difficult time getting back across the border. Escaping to Mexico, with his mental issues, would be the worst thing he could do for himself....especially since it doesn't sound to me like he had a lot of money to hide out in resorts and spend the rest of his life lounging by a pool.

The large majority of people here in this area of California don't see him as anything more than a crazed cop killer and insane murdered. No one will listen or care about what he says if he is caught with the exception of a handful of people who already had a beef with LE anyway. IMHO LAPD isn't worried about it. They (obviously) did the right thing terminating his employment as he, according to his own written ramblings, shouldn't have been a police officer in the first place (you can't choke a co-worker, walk around thinking you would have been justified shooting him in the head, and expect to have a job the next day.)

 

[mister happy]

I think he's running scared. He had made some preliminary plans, but they didn't pan out for him, e.g., stealing the boat. He couldn't bring himself to kill the innocent boatowner. There's also a reward out for his arrest. He's likely shaking like a leaf somewhere. He may even be having second thoughts about his murder/suicide mission.

OTOH, he could lounging on the beach in Tijuana, drinking and laughing at the turmoil and fear he caused in LA.

Dorner could very well be scared and panicked. His initial "rambo" euphoria may have evaporated, leaving him wondering "what the hell did I do." And now that everyone knows his face and body-type, he can't easily move about in public. Real life is not a 2 hour movie. Real life is unrelenting 24/7.