CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Lois Lane]

Jimmy Orr LATimes ‏@JimmyOrr

Sheriff: The pyrotechnic type canisters are commonly referred to as burners.

https://twitter.com/JimmyOrr

 

[panthera]

For the victims.......

Monica Quan
Keith Lawrence
Officer Michael Crain
Officer Jeremiah MacKay

Rest in Peace
:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

 

[txsvicki]

I don't understand either, why he went to the mountains unless he had a cache stashed there and simply got stuck if he went to retrieve weapons and his truck broke down. I thought he enjoyed comfort too much to really turn survivalist because of the manifesto mentioning so much television, celebrities, food, drink, and internet.

 

[Herding Cats]

I don't think it is that fascinating. Dorner was trying to portray himself as the "good guy" that was victimized, that was the point of his manifesto etc....

When he was stuck in Big Bear he probably knew the game was over, at that point he was just delaying the end. Instead of killing the hostages why not let them live and further prove his point that he is a "good guy"?

It really isn't that unusual, even big name serial killers (Richard Ramirez, Bobby Joe Long, etc...) have been known to spare some victims just because they feel like it, it doesn't mean they are "basically good hearted guys" it was just how they felt at that time.

Whoa, my friend. I never said anything near what I've bolded...and believe I've stated the exact opposite in my posts. LOL...

Let me put it this way...some other killers which I find fascinating in a clinical, detached kinda way are: tornados, earthquakes, and forest fires...

I'm fascinated by the way people think; by their interpretation of the world; by their ability to carry on a decade long killing spree and not have the cops find them...by victimology and victim selection.

I think that the more we learn about things, the better able we are to prevent, and failing that, respond adequately to the situation with a minimal loss of life.

I believe that human nature is forever intriguing, and why/how people select their victims in cases like this (I call him a spree murderer rather than a mass murderer or serial killer). I believe that there are things to learn from each.and.every situation one encounters, and things in the scale of Dorner's rampage can teach us a whole lot about the human mind.

I do NOT believe he was "essentially good hearted", and have said as much, over and over. And over. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Sonya610]

I thought he enjoyed comfort too much to really turn survivalist because of the manifesto mentioning so much television, celebrities, food, drink, and internet.

Yuppers.

Some folks like the snow and ice and woods and rustic cabins...some folks really don't. He doesn't seem like someone that would find such a place hospitable.

There was a reason. Heading towards a tract of undeveloped land owned by the family doesn't make sense when that land is covered in snow and ice with no comforts.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Whoa, my friend. I never said anything near what I've bolded...and believe I've stated the exact opposite in my posts. LOL...

Let me put it this way...some other killers which I find fascinating in a clinical, detached kinda way are: tornados, earthquakes, and forest fires...

I'm fascinated by the way people think; by their interpretation of the world; by their ability to carry on a decade long killing spree and not have the cops find them...by victimology and victim selection.

I think that the more we learn about things, the better able we are to prevent, and failing that, respond adequately to the situation with a minimal loss of life.

I believe that human nature is forever intriguing, and why/how people select their victims in cases like this (I call him a spree murderer rather than a mass murderer or serial killer). I believe that there are things to learn from each.and.every situation one encounters, and things in the scale of Dorner's rampage can teach us a whole lot about the human mind.

I do NOT believe he was "essentially good hearted", and have said as much, over and over. And over. LOL.

Best-
Herding Cats

Not disagreeing, but how do you figure we can learn about the human mind, based one isolated incident? Wouldn't we need a larger sample size?

 

[artsy1]

The question I have is WHY did he go to Big Bear?

Everyone knows you don't flee to small mountain communities (or small towns anywhere) if you are wanted and highly publicized. Plus who would want to drive in snow and deal with cold if they didn't have to?

Did he have a friend that told him he could go there and hide out for a while? Are charges pending for that friend?

I don't get it, maybe it was mentioned and I missed it?

I think the reason was two-fold. One is that he knew the area since his mother still owns property up there. The other, borrowing someone's info from a Big Bear chatroom who lives in BB, was that the day his truck broke down, it was Law Enforcement Appreciation Day where all LE could ride the lifts for free. It's possible he saw them as sitting ducks, like in an arcade game, but the truck breaking down ruined that plan.

 

[artsy1]

By the way, has anyone else noticed that one of the photos of the charred cabin that shows the firefighter walking in the basement also appears to show Dorner's body laying on the ground next to the red flags in the basement?

 

[Sonya610]

By the way, has anyone else noticed that one of the photos of the charred cabin that shows the firefighter walking in the basement also appears to show Dorner's body laying on the ground next to the red flags in the basement?

Link please???

 

[i.b.nora]

Well, the Redlands Photo link did have 15 photos, now has 13. For sure they deleted the picture of the roadway with the blood, etc. Not sure what other one they deleted.

 

[artsy1]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...other-and-daughter-key-to-ending-manhunt?lite


In the basement, it looks like his body on the ground, with head next to the wall, right flags along the right side of his body, and left leg out towards the firefighter. I blew it up in a photo editing program, and it sure looks like a body.

 

[artsy1]

Here it is blown up:

 

[Reader]

Sheriff: Cabin not purposely burned in firefight

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1011

 

[Sonya610]

Here it is blown up:

Can you do a little photoshop to high light? As in red box?

 

[Sonya610]

Wow....Sheriff John McMahon is a trip. Sheeshers...Aspergers anyone? I didn't realize those folks went into law enforcement.

I honestly don't care if they lit the place up or not...but LE seems to be very nervous in that interview. VERY nervous and defensive.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...g-manhunt?lite

 

[artsy1]

I don't have photoshop, but I did the best I could with paint.

 

[artsy1]

The more I blow it up, there also appears to be a rifle lying on the right side of his body.

 

[thistle]

I think the reason was two-fold. One is that he knew the area since his mother still owns property up there. The other, borrowing someone's info from a Big Bear chatroom who lives in BB, was that the day his truck broke down, it was Law Enforcement Appreciation Day where all LE could ride the lifts for free. It's possible he saw them as sitting ducks, like in an arcade game, but the truck breaking down ruined that plan.

Perhaps he wasn't as smart as he wanted everyone to believe?-couldn't carry out his plan, despite his threats & acronyms. Maybe after his first killings, everything fell apart...anyway, it's good that it ended this way, too bad it didn't happen earlier....

 

[Foxfire]

On air now. Greta will interview the two maids:

Greta Van Susteren
Tonight ON THE RECORD at 10pm/ET Fox News: We're live in Big Bear, CA with the latest on the Christopher Dorner investigation...tune in.

 

[Herding Cats]

Not disagreeing, but how do you figure we can learn about the human mind, based one isolated incident? Wouldn't we need a larger sample size?

I think that the LAPD, LASD, RSD/PD, SBPD/SO will all re evaluate their response processes; the tactics and procedures used will be reassessed, and tightened/fine tuned for any other similar situation (and that's NOT saying what they did was wrong...).

I think we can learn a ton about how mental illness hides, and how to find it. When you consider that this man had to take the MMPI and other psychological evaluations and got through them and hired into a job that involves weapons, then you also have to look at that process and how to better interpret the MMPI/other evaluation exams. Steps may be made towards a better "weed-er outer" (if that's even a phrase) during background processes.

It may teach us something about how depression works; most people who are depressed are NOT violent towards others; but they are to themselves. So did he have true depression, or was there a character flaw which, combined with depression, can alert us to a more substantial risk towards violence of others? Is there something which we can identify that might allow us to more effectively treat MI?

It may teach us something of how the public responds to the "anti-hero". How to gauge reactions from the public at large (there were people with signs, for heaven's sake, encouraging Dorner!) and how to avoid/divert this sort of thing for the future (which will also lessen risks to LE, and to the public).

It may teach LE how to better handle a domestic terrorist, or respond during a terrorist attack, in the future.

If it gives us a picture of how this criminal, evil-hearted man thought, then there may be ways to use that knowledge to further protect ourselves somehow in the future.

What made him this rage filled? What happened when he was little that made him an "injustice collector"? How did he get past the psych screenings (and while I don't know for sure, I suspect they do clearances in the military, too, for some of the jobs. Did he take one? Was he cleared? how did he manage that?)

How did a man, who was a bit of a bully, get this far and into a position of responsibility in LE and in the Navy?

Knowing more of that, we can better construct defenses against people like him for the future; we can start to see signs and symptoms of MI and may be able to better predict their actions, violent or otherwise, and be able to weed out those folks from armed positions.

There are many, many things that this man can teach us, if we get past the horror of his actions and delve into his mind a bit more. And there are things which were, in hindsight, huge screw-ups (e.g. him passing the psych evals) that may be able to be corrected for future applicants.

And on and on...many, many things we can take away and have this at least be something we learn from, so that it's NOT repeated in the future.

That, at least, is my hope...my prayer. That we take this horrific event and find value in it; it's how we can honor those who were killed...for if there are lessons to be learned, and we fail to learn them...well...

Of course, that is simply my own opinion, and as I'm not in a position to actually forensically analyze him, I'm somewhat limited in knowing what we could learn. But that there *is* something we can learn, I have no doubt at all.

Best-
Herding Cats