CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[Voice4theSilent]

the command center, in the lower end of the Bear Mtn parking lot, was well below the ski slopes. the condo across from the command center is also below the slopes

his original location/where the truck was burned is directly across from and slightly higher than the slopes at Bear Mtn. I do think that he would have been shooting at LEOs who were anywhere on the property at Bear Mtn if he hadn't lost his transportation. the reduced-rate skiing for LE/fire/EMS personnel that day was well publicized. (the ski resort websites are well-maintained and they clear the dates which have already passed, but that day's date was most definitely posted there when it was a current date)

the scopes on his weapons would've enabled clean shots from enough distance that no one would be sure where the shots came from: which direction to think about first?

before anyone can realize and react to what just happened (and no one knows he's in town) he jumps in his truck and leaves the scene on the higher back roads which lead out of town. he would be off the mountain before the situation was assessed enough to call for helicopter crews which could spot him on the access roads. and, they would only call for helicopters if they thought the shooter was using the back roads. they'd jump on patrols and searches and blocking main roads first (which we saw). air searches aren't much good if you can't tell them what to look for

A lot of people are pointing out on here that he only murdered LE and their family. If his intent was to randomly start picking off skiiers on the slopes that day it would have definitely resulted in the loss of non-LE and non-LE family members lives (as the chance of him randomly shooting someone on the slope and hitting an LAPD LEO was next to impossible.)

There are numerous ongoing events around the area that offer discounts to military and first responders. (e.g., Knott's Berry Farm just recently ended a two month long, heavily discounted offer.) Any thoughts on why this one would have been special? I live in the area and have never heard of this discount offered at the local ski resorts.

Also, he shot the Riverside LEO at around 1:45am. It would have taken him an hour and a half to two hours to get to the destination in which his truck was found. He would have had plenty of time to hoof it up the mountain and find a suitable spot to start his attack as LE didn't know he was there until hours later. If that was his intent, why wouldn't he have carried it out, since he had the means and the opportunity? Surely, even if his truck wasn't damaged, he didn't think he would be able to shoot people on the slopes and just drive away undetected. Those two lane roads (one up and one down) are very easy to block.

 

[Lois Lane]

Los Angeles Times Beyond the Lens photography:

http://framework.latimes.com/2013/02/14/behind-the-lens-covering-the-dorner-manhunt/#/0

 

[Lois Lane]

The [San Bernadino Sheriff's] department planned a news conference for 4 p.m. Friday.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...hristopher-Dorner-Body-Coroner-191302071.html

 

[Lois Lane]

John Weeks: Biggest crime story in I.E. history?

Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_22593557/john-weeks-biggest-crime-story-i-e-history#ixzz2Kvn8CFBG

The Christopher Dorner murder rampage will enter the books as one of the most sensational crime stories in Inland Empire history. It even might top the list.

And that's saying a lot.

After all, it's a list that includes the Charles Manson murders, at least peripherally. Manson and his followers bivouacked at the Barker Ranch near Trona, an old mining town in the extreme northwest corner of San Bernardino County. Manson hid out at the ranch after the August 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders, and it was there that he was arrested the following October.

Also, the Dorner story has played out in a vastly different era than the 1960s. The last stand of Christopher Dorner took place on live television. And the Internet and social media were available to ramp up the drama with real-time coverage, worldwide reach and ongoing interactive public commentary.

More at the link:

http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_22593557/john-weeks-biggest-crime-story-i-e-history#ixzz2KvmXw0fK

 

[katydid23]

Actually weren't the officers that were named and threatened under guard somewhe else, with their families?

That would be done to keep them safe, and at the same time, to keep them from being involved with the apprehension. For the same reason that say, a judge would recuse themselves from a case where they know a defendant or victim. Because we know that it would be impossible for them to act dispassionately and in an unbiased way.

We really don't want a police force that is carrying out their duties with a mindset of vengeance, do we? Because that is what "burn the ******f****r" says to me: vengeance. Not even just losing cool.

Cops are brothers in arms. Once a coldblooded killer threatens to kill tHE CHILDREN of any Law Enforcement officers, and actually does so, then they are all his victims. The biggest nightmare for all of the cops that I know, is the thought of revenge played out on their families.

Would any other occupation be able to work each day thinking that unsatisfied customers might seek out their children and kill them in response?

I have no problem with that verbal outburst. These cops had been working overtime under incredible stress, in a blizzard, with very little sleep, and two of their 'brothers' were just found lying in a pool of blood nearby. Cops are only human.

 

[Lois Lane]

Documents: Dorner researched couple before they were killed

Irvine police detectives believe fired policeman Christopher Dorner gathered intelligence on his first two victims before he shot them on the rooftop of an Irvine parking structure, documents reviewed by the Register show.

"It is believed that Dorner conducted background on his intended targets ... and may be in possession of ... documents containing personal and professional information for Keith Lawrence, and the entire Quan family," Irvine detective Jonathan Sampson wrote in an affidavit in support of a search warrant.

Detectives also obtained warrants to search for Dorner's online records and bank accounts. They also got a warrant to obtain a DNA sample, which they wanted to compare to DNA found on shell casings and a beanie found near the car where Quan and Lawrence were killed.

More at the link:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/dorner-495924-cabin-heltebrake.html

 

[Lois Lane]

Riverside, San Bernardino officers' tributes

•Donations to Riverside Police Officer Michael Crain's family may be made to the Officer and Family Assistance Fund and sent to the Riverside Police Officers' Association, 1965 Chicago Ave. Suite B, Riverside, CA, 92507. Information: 951-784-1034 or rpoa.org

•The Inland Empire Emerald Society will collect money to support the family of San Bernardino Sheriff's Deputy Jeremiah MacKay. Donations may be sent to the Inland Empire Emerald Society, 1040 S. Mount Vernon Ave. Suite G-333, Colton, CA, 92324. MacKay was an active member of the society and worked on fundraisers for families of fallen officers. His annual event coinciding with a worldwide Guinness Toast will take place as scheduled 8 p.m. Friday at Sham Rocks, 1275 Magnolia Ave. in Corona. Information: iees.ie

http://www.ocregister.com/news/dorner-495924-cabin-heltebrake.html

 

[Herding Cats]

I was easily able to figure out that HC meant the Rodney King 1992 riots.
HC likely simply made a typo which is certainly understandable. :twocents:

No, MsF. I meant the super duper secret '94 Rose Riots. See, a group of po'd rosarians drove around town late one very dark and cold night, and cut down every.dratted.rose.they.saw, including the roses at the Museum of Natural History, USC rose gardens, and (gasp) Descanso's famed Rose Garden.

It was done because the local garden stores refused to carry a particular rose food...and we er they demanded justice. Because if we er they couldn't use that food, then NOBODY could enjoy that year's rose gardens. At all.

Justice for ROSES!!!

Problem was, it was soooooooooo secret that no one even noticed...except some folks who had incredible bouquets with no reasonable explanation on how they got them. Hundreds of roses crammed into a vase, no reciept to prove they were purchased.

Riots, I tell ya. Just riots.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Lois Lane]

Los Angeles Police Department personnel who were protecting fellow officers allegedly threatened by Christopher Jordan Dorner are being sent back to their normal duties, Chief Charlie Beck said Thursday afternoon.

"We've taken away the protection details," Beck told The Times. He spoke shortly after authorities said they had positively identified the charred remains found in a mountain cabin Tuesday as being the body of Dorner.

The 24-hour protection details taxed LAPD resources. The city has not released financial figures on the cost of the operation.

More at the link:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...ails-end-after-dorner-remains-identified.html

 

[Lois Lane]

DORNER MANHUNT: Normalcy welcomed at besieged mountain diner

As life in the communities in the San Bernardino Mountains returned to normal after it was confirmed Thursday that fugitive homicide suspect Christopher Dorner had died in a fiery siege with police, the owner of The Oaks restaurant on Highway 38 in Angelus Oaks pondered what the renewed quiet meant to her.

During the week, the restaurant usually closes at 2:30 p.m. But Tuesday night, as the cabin with Dorner in it burned on Glass Road about six miles up the mountain, The Oaks remained open all night, and deputies who needed to remain close to the crime scene slept in booths, Berens said.

Wednesday, more than a dozen television news vans and other media vehicles clogged The Oaks’ parking lot. That’s as far as the media or anyone else could go, with the California Highway Patrol blocking the road at that point. Reporters, photographers, videographers and technicians found refuge from the subfreezing cold inside the 100-seat restaurant as they waited for word of Dorner’s fate or any other morsel of news (none came). Most of them ate, Berens said.

“You’re glad it’s over. It’s good to have things back to normal,” she said.

More at the link:

http://blog.pe.com/crime-blotter/20...normalcy-welcomed-at-besieged-mountain-diner/

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Transparency: 'Criminal Profiler Pat Brown quote'

We could use a strong accountability system not dependent on appeals, but rather oversight. The public/citizens have a right to know exactly how decisions are made and cases are handled.

It does not have to be in the midst of the case but certainly afterward there should be transparency. If there isn’t, how can we address issues of corruption*, incompetance, and error?

We need to know in order to fix problems and hold people accountable for what is supposed to be work done on behalf of the citizens. Somehow “the interest of the state” seems to preclude the citizenry which is odd considering the state IS the citizenry, well, at least in a democratic republic with a constitution..

BBM
I absolutely agree that LE needs to go back over their actions and then learn from them and I have no doubt that they will. It is very clear what mistakes were made, in my opinion. Shooting at the women (while I understand how it could have happened) was obviously an error; running into the surfer, an error as well. However, I will not go as far as to imply that the LEOs who erred were incompetent or blood thirsty, as some have done in this site. First, it isn't my place and second, who would do such a thing not knowing anything about the situation, the LEOs involved, etc. To do so would be irresponsible and naive. Rest assured, those "errors" will be costly to the department and to the tax payers of LA.

Further, LEOs using gas (whether hot or cold) WAS NOT "an error, an issue of corruption or incompetence", neither was making a statement about burning down the structure (if that is indeed what was said or meant, again, a lot of inference going around on here.) These inferences are leading some to feel justified in accusing these LEOs of police brutality, mob rule, acting on vengeance, etc.

Work done on behalf of the citizens? Check! I am a citizen of the area in which this monster terrorized and I am VERY satisfied with the outcome of this manhunt.

 

[i.b.nora]

More at the link:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/dorner-495924-cabin-heltebrake.html

This article was interesting to me since I followed this from the very beginning when Monica and Keith were gunned down. I looked again at the building and the rooftop, and wanted to check for sure as I remembered taller buildings nearby. The article says they "were shot so many times with a 9 mm pistol that investigators concluded the killer had used a high-capacity magazine".

What are the chances that no one was looking out their windows across the way at the time of the shooting? Or, the chances of no one hearing anything? (Rhetorical questions)

What does not surprise me at all is the possibility that "It is believed that Dorner conducted background on his intended targets ... and may be in possession of ... documents containing personal and professional information for Keith Lawrence, and the entire Quan family," Irvine detective Jonathan Sampson wrote in an affidavit in support of a search warrant." I would imagine that he had gathered information on many of the forty or so they decided to protect.

Anyhow, thanks for posting that article. Also the photos at LATimes.

 

[TGIRecovered]

With all due respect to those questioning LE use of force to end this manhunt, and the actions that were taken/emotions that were displayed; I feel that you are all missing the HUGE contributing factor as to why LE responded the way they did. They were UNDER FIRE and being confronted by an ACTIVE SHOOTER!!! When cornered Dorner DID NOT come out of the cabin with his hands up to surrender, the was SHOOTING at them!! He had just MURDERED yet another officer and critically injured yet another officer, and because of his actions it was clear that his desire was to ADD even more officers to his body count! I for one am glad that the responding officers took steps to ensure that he did not have that opportunity.
That being said, I respect that different people have different life experience to draw from. However, I would hazard a guess that many of you questioning the actions of LE would not respond to being SHOT at by a man that has already MURDERED four innocent citizens by standing by and not defending yourselves. IMO, anyone who claims that restraint was needed by LE in this situation is full of horse pucky and needs a HUGE reality check. Do officers have to abide by the law, absolutely and they did, self defense is legal.
Mods if I have overstepped my bounds, please feel free to delete all or part of this post. TIA

This is such an excellent post I just had to quote it!

People who are spinning this story into " police executed this guy" or " purposely set the fire" don't have a clue what has to be done in a real life situation such as this. It's like having the general public critique every move a soldier makes in combat.

When Dorner finally came scurrying out of hiding and police had him surrounded , they did everything by the book. Flash-bangs and gas are used routinely by tactical teams as a means to subdue or momentarily distract and disorient an active shooter so that they can make quick entry without being fired upon and successfully arrest the shooter or rescue hostages. Dorner knew that when he barricaded himself in the cabin.

To suggest that LE deliberately set that cabin on fire is exactly as Thorn said. Horse-pucky!

This thread has devolved into a constant criticism of LE instead of gratefulness that those brave officers chased after a man who vowed to kill them and not be taken alive. With all due respect to our hard-working mods, the occasional reminder about Websleuths TOS is being ignored by several who post again and again for the sole purpose of criticizing LE. I'm sick of coming here for news and intelligent discussion and finding this mess.

As the wife of a career LE administrator( who is not a bully or a racist or an idiot, and who would fire any officer who was) I am disgusted.






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[crymesolver]

I haven't been around for a few days, busy, but has anyone seen Unbending Intent around here lately?

 

[Voice4theSilent]

This article was interesting to me since I followed this from the very beginning when Monica and Keith were gunned down. I looked again at the building and the rooftop, and wanted to check for sure as I remembered taller buildings nearby. The article says they "were shot so many times with a 9 mm pistol that investigators concluded the killer had used a high-capacity magazine".

What are the chances that no one was looking out their windows across the way at the time of the shooting? Or, the chances of no one hearing anything? (Rhetorical questions)

What does not surprise me at all is the possibility that "It is believed that Dorner conducted background on his intended targets ... and may be in possession of ... documents containing personal and professional information for Keith Lawrence, and the entire Quan family," Irvine detective Jonathan Sampson wrote in an affidavit in support of a search warrant." I would imagine that he had gathered information on many of the forty or so they decided to protect.

Anyhow, thanks for posting that article. Also the photos at LATimes.

BBM
I suspect he used a silencer on his gun.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I haven't been around for a few days, busy, but has anyone seen Unbending Intent around here lately?

Just a few posts back, at 9:48 same old same old.


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[Voice4theSilent]

This is such an excellent post I just had to quote it!

People who are spinning this story into " police executed this guy" or " purposely set the fire" don't have a clue what has to be done in a real life situation such as this. It's like having the general public critique every move a soldier makes in combat.

When Dorner finally came scurrying out of hiding and police had him surrounded , they did everything by the book. Flash-bangs and gas are used routinely by tactical teams as a means to subdue or momentarily distract and disorient an active shooter so that they can make quick entry without being fired upon and successfully arrest the shooter or rescue hostages. Dorner knew that when he barricaded himself in the cabin.

To suggest that LE deliberately set that cabin on fire is exactly as Thorn said. Horse-pucky!

This thread has devolved into a constant criticism of LE instead of gratefulness that those brave officers chased after a man who vowed to kill them and not be taken alive. With all due respect to our hard-working mods, the occasional reminder about Websleuths TOS is being ignored by several who post again and again for the sole purpose of criticizing LE. I'm sick of coming here for news and intelligent discussion and finding this mess.

As the wife of a career LE administrator( who is not a bully or a racist or an idiot, and who would fire any officer who was) I am disgusted.






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Thank you for this post (and thank you to your husband for his part in making our country a safer place to live!) I am sickened by how quickly these boards have gone from "Hurry! Hurry! Get him! Get Him!" to "How dare you do that!" in just a matter of days. It is so, so easy for everyone to sit back and pick apart the assumed and alleged actions of the heroes who did their job, who faced gunfire and watching their brothers fall, and put an end to this madness all the while having no clue what they are talking about. I spent several days wringing my hands worried that I made the wrong decision to send my children to school knowing that some of the targeted LEOs live in the area. It was ONLY because of those incredible heroes that I didn't actually have a thing to worry about. They protected my children. They did their job, risked their lives and made my streets safe again....until the next Dorner comes along and then they will do it all over again without question or a second thought.

 

[Gracenote]

I feel like people (media) are confusing what he said he could and would do with what he actually did. He made all kinds of grandiose claims but ultimately murdered 4 people, made it a few miles away and then shot himself when law enforcement found him. There were no superpowers, no amazing gifts for escaping, surviving, or mowing down hoards of people (thank God) He was just another run of the mill criminal who thought he had the right to kill because his feelings were hurt. About as much sense as killing to start helter skelter, to rape college girls, or to spray paint your hair red and kill "the enemy." A sensational crime story? Nah. They said the same about Casey Anthony, the Washington DC snipers, this woman on trial now for murder. He was just another criminal. Sorry. He could have brought about positive change in so many other ways. But that wasn't his goal. His goal was to be The Victim and The Hero. He died neither.

 

[txsvicki]

Watching Professor Hill on TV earlier trying to explain his remarks abot Dorner was ridiculous. How anyone could read the manifesto and think that he "wasn't all that crazy" is beyond me.

 

[Dr. Know?]

This has probably been posted as I've been following the arrest in Philly for the 5 year old who was abducted from school.

This is the couple who were held hostage at Big Bear. Has there been word or video on the cleaning persons? tia

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU84vRoVtag"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU84vRoVtag[/ame]