CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

[LinasK]

Erroneous report by media. Like that they had found his body before the cabin had even stopped burning. LE states he never came out of the cabin

I think they actually DID find his body before the cabin stopped burning and leaked it prematurely to reassure people, but can't officially state it is him until DNA testing is done.

 

[believe09]

And one could ask why you believe what LE tells you. It's a no-win here---you and others clearly have a bias toward LE and other people do not.

It's okay to be one or the other, but not okay to attack someone who doesn't believe the same things you do.

Respectfully, this is as unflattering as it would be if I accused you of having a bias against LE.

I dont understand why it is open season on LE. We dont bash LE here. There is not nearly enough information on what went down to be critical-questioning, sure. Critical and bashing, no.

:twocents:

 

[Elley Mae]

Carjacking victim says fugitive ex-cop was calm, didn’t want to hurt him before shooting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...571-11e2-9889-60bfcbb02149_story.html?hpid=z2

A charred body was found in the basement of the burned cabin along with a wallet and personal items, including a California driver’s license with the name Christopher Dorner, an official briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

With the standoff under way, officers lobbed tear gas canisters into the cabin. A single shot was heard inside before the cabin was engulfed in flames, said a law enforcement official who requested anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

 

[wfgodot]

NBC/LA terrific timeline, 2002 through Officer Crain's memorial service today:

Timeline: Ex-LAPD Officer Suspected in Shooting Spree

 

[MsFacetious]

Today, we have an Officer who was laid to rest. He has two young children.

Today there are at least three children 10 years and younger... without a Daddy anymore.

Today that is where my focus is. Those two officers who were murdered and the children left fatherless. :twocents:


Michael Craine - two children ages 4 and 10.

http://www.facebook.com/OfficerMichaelCrain


Jeremiah MacKay - recently became a father

http://www.facebook.com/JeremiahMacKaySBCSD

 

[Seajay]

I'm not buying it, but let's assume it's true for the sake of argument. How then does my wish for LE and justice to be carried out in a rational, fair, unbiased and dispassionate manner point to, or illustrate, violence against LE?

I'm against violence on ALL sides. Society is not well served by either criminals committing violence, or LE committing it.

Because it wasn't a traffic stop for a speeding ticket, it was an act of domestic terrorism.

 

[Lois Lane]

Christopher Dorner's last stand unfolds on Twitter

How the manhunt, gun battle and probable death of ex-LAPD officer and fugitive Christopher Dorner unfolded on Twitter.

More at the link:

http://www.sbsun.com/ci_22583158

 

[bookboarder]

Let me preface this post with the fact that I live, presently, with two LEOs [my inlaws-- both of whom are firearms instructors]. I have nothing but respect for those who risk their lives on a daily basis to protect our society at large. I think there are 100 great cops for every single shady cop in our country.

First, the fact is that Dorner was a volatile individual who had proven, through his own actions, to have no value for the lives of police officers and their families. This man created his own problems-- from those he had as an LEO until yesterday's shootout and fire. He blamed everybody else for everything in his own life and apparently never learned that violence doesn't solve problems. He simply existed in a la-la-land with a tally sheet in his brain keeping score. He refused to take responsibility for his actions and instead blamed it all on A, B,C, etc.

This man created a situation in which there was a clear and present danger to LE and civilians over the last week. He killed one officer, injured another yesterday and at least one reporter [innocent citizen] was in the line of fire. His goal from the beginning was clear. He wanted to KILL LEOs and their families. He proved he wasn't BSing by committing the acts he had done.

Law enforcement needed to end this event with aggressive, offensive tactics in order to eliminate the threat of imminent danger to 10s of people. Up until then, Dorner had the upper hand, element of surprise and used those things to AMBUSH LEOs.

Not only did he commit egregious criminal actions against numerous people, he virtually held Southern California hostage for a week. People were genuinely concerned for their safety. Just because he'd limited his attacks to people related to LEOs and didn't mean his next act of violence would continue that way. Thankfully, he didn't harm the other three individuals he encountered yesterday-- but he could have very easily.

At the point in which he'd holed up in a cabin he had already committed at least 4 murders, arson, kidnapping or false imprisonment, fraud [plates], and two counts of breaking & entering, battery, two counts of grand theft auto. Add to this fact that two of his victims were LE and he threatened each and every officer with grave bodily harm. Personally, someone who has committed so many violations of law over the last week and a half, gets NO RESPECT from me. The purpose of his violence was to impart fear on a massive scale-- the precise act of which is the definition of terrorism. The dude was a terrorist.

He seized numerous attempts to ambush LE officers with deadly force. They knew he was at the very least extremely unstable. From the sounds of the gunfight, I'm pretty sure he also possessed an automatic weapon of some kind. I don't know anyone who can get off that many rounds using a semi-auto. Automatic weapons-- aka machine guns-- are illegal to possess and gave him yet another unfair advantage against the cops. LE was given little choice in the matter-- their response [until he was in the last cabin] had all been in the suspects game. He was controlling the action, these were HIS decisions that led to his own end. Without any signs of surrendering he continued to shoot LEOs. He had more than one opportunity to give himself up and he didn't take those opportunities. He continued to wreak havoc and posed a CLEAR and PRESENT danger to everyone in the area-- by his own account.

Perhaps I am unsympathetic to his "side" of the story because I grew up in Corona, my family's business is in Riverside and I spent more time at in the mountains of Big Bear snowboarding as a young adult, than at home. All of these tragedies occured in places I care deeply about [my sister's school was on lockdown due to this situation, the Riverside PD officer was shot 1 block from my family's workplace. Regardless, this situation was all his own fault. He could have stopped it at any time but he continued to target innocent LEOs and others.

 

[time]

Using something capable of starting a fire is not the same as deliberately starting a fire.

What about....

"Burn this MF "

"we’re gonna go forward with the plan, with — with the burn,”

“Copy 7, burners deployed. We have a fire.”

I'm not saying we have all the evidence of what transpired and when, just that we have this and it's not only ok to question, but a good idea.

As far as we know, it was something else or more than the incendiary tear gas/CS gas canisters.

 

[ragamuffinchild]

I follow the news and I can't produce any stories right now, but there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country.
It's a mindset.

This is my first post, but this caught my eye. If you state something as fact such as "there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country" then you should be prepared to back up that statement with evidence, or risk not being taken seriously. I am interested in this allegation and would LOVE to see some statistics on it. Could anyone back this up with anything other than anecdotal evidence?

 

[wfgodot]

Welcome to WS, ragamuffinchild.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

This is my first post, but this caught my eye. If you state something as fact such as "there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country" then you should be prepared to back up that statement with evidence, or risk not being taken seriously. I am interested in this allegation and would LOVE to see some statistics on it. Could anyone back this up with anything other than anecdotal evidence?

A google search for violence against cops (or similar wording) may get you what you are looking for.

ETA: a lot of info here

http://www.theiacp.org/PublicationsGuides/Projects/ViolenceAgainstthePolice/tabid/939/Default.aspx

National Center for the Prevention of Violence Against the Police.

 

[LinasK]

What about....

"Burn this MF "

"we’re gonna go forward with the plan, with — with the burn,”

“Copy 7, burners deployed. We have a fire.”

I'm not saying we have all the evidence of what transpired and when, just that we have this and it's not only ok to question, but a good idea.

As far as we know, it was something else or more than the incendiary tear gas/CS gas canisters.

The owner of the cabin has also come out and stated that she thought there was propane inside the cabin, and Dorner had purchased Scuba tanks, so don't be too quick to assume that LE started the fire...
He had said he wanted to go down "in a blaze of glory". Maybe that was his idea of it.

 

[time]

The owner of the cabin has also come out and stated that she thought there was propane inside the cabin, and Dorner had purchased Scuba tanks, so don't be too quick to assume that LE started the fire...
He had said he wanted to go down "in a blaze of glory". Maybe that was his idea of it.

I'm not assuming Linas...just saying it's also a good possibility.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

This is my first post, but this caught my eye. If you state something as fact such as "there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country" then you should be prepared to back up that statement with evidence, or risk not being taken seriously. I am interested in this allegation and would LOVE to see some statistics on it. Could anyone back this up with anything other than anecdotal evidence?

http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/...g-highlights-spike-in-violence-against-police

Modesto cop killing highlights spike in violence against police

 

[Starry Night]

What about....

"Burn this MF "

"we’re gonna go forward with the plan, with — with the burn,”

“Copy 7, burners deployed. We have a fire.”

I'm not saying we have all the evidence of what transpired and when, just that we have this and it's not only ok to question, but a good idea.

As far as we know, it was something else or more than the incendiary tear gas/CS gas canisters.

What is your point exactly; are you disturbed with the events of the outcome, and what would you have wished happened to end the situation?

 

[Starry Night]

This is my first post, but this caught my eye. If you state something as fact such as "there is an increased number of attacks on LE in this country" then you should be prepared to back up that statement with evidence, or risk not being taken seriously. I am interested in this allegation and would LOVE to see some statistics on it. Could anyone back this up with anything other than anecdotal evidence?

Am I in Court now lol.............

 

[Seajay]

...and this is exactly the kind of post I'm disappointed to see. You don't live in time's head, do you? No.

It seems in your world, if anyone questions anything Officer Friendly does, we are showing "sympathy" for criminal activity and posting "allegations of bad intent for LE."

So sad, we can't even have a rational conversation.

I'm out of this thread, it's obvious there is no fruitful discussion to be had here. Hopefully you'll run off all the "anti" LE posters and you can all have a LE love-fest or whatever it is you're trying to have here.

Smooches!

WS is a VICTIM friendly site, and in this case, LE were the VICTIMS. They were CD's targets, according to his own words in his manifesto. Bashing LE in this thread is against TOS, as per a post or two from the moderators of this site.

 

[Sonya610]

Okay so theoretically even if they DID start the fire I don't understand what the big deal is.

Dorner was shooting plenty so he wasn't incapacitated. In addition no one else was in the cabin and the adjacent rental properties were also empty.

All things considered, start a fire and he either leaves or dies. I don't have a problem with that, seems rather practical. Why let the situation go on for hours more and allow other LE to get shot/killed plus it is also very expensive (that manhunt had to cost a fortune!). All things considered, if someone on LE's side came up with the idea it was a good one. (I am not saying LE DID start the fire, just saying I wouldn't have a problem with it IF they did).

 

[Seajay]

For someone with all this military background in tactical warfare and strategic training, he sure didn't have a "plan B." It was over when the axle broke in his vehicle. IMO, JMO, MOO.