GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

[cuffem]

Now is D. West he is 10 y/o. State asks him about knowing truth and a lie. Talks about school. He lives with 3 brothers
He said he does not know his adopted parents names.State is having him ID the Wests pictures.
Child states he did home school with the 3 brothers.

I am not putting the boys names as KGET is not naming them. SO LET US NOT NAME THE YOUNGER BOYS IF WE CAN.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Yeah; seems I owe you an apology. Maybe they really did just adopt these brothers so they would have someone to take their frustrations out on.

There is no need to apologize. We all have our opinions and we want to believe the best in people.

 

[Frodosdojo]

The son is saying he didn't even call them mom or dad. Just by their names.

 

[cuffem]

I am wondering about this testimony IYKWIM. He has been coached in my opinion.
He is giving very matter of fact answers when only asked about Orrin and Orson. It was the tone and how he replied that makes me feel he was coached by family. You have to hear this to know what I mean.
The state took lunch because they figured out what was going on. MY OPINION ONLY!

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

The son is saying he didn't even call them mom or dad. Just by their names.

If one boy only calls them by their names, how is it the other boy doesn't know their names?
Curious.....

 

[Frodosdojo]

I am wondering about this testimony IYKWIM. He has been coached in my opinion.

Only certain questions about Orson and Orrin does he answer in a very matter of fact way

He is very young. He probably doesn't remember details.

If one boy only calls them by their names, how is it the other boy doesn't know their names?
Curious.....

None of their kids have testified so far except this one. Is he one of the adopted kids and he never called JW or TW mom and dad.

 

[cuffem]

He is very young. He probably doesn't remember details.

None of their kids have testified so far except this one. Is he one of the adopted kids and he never called JW or TW mom and dad.

It is the way he is answering and his tone. I can not believe I am the only one hearing this in his answers.I think he has been coached by family and it is very apparent to me.
I suspect the rest of the kids will answer in the same manner and the states case is in jeopardy.

 

[cuffem]

I think he was confused with the adopted parent question meaning he did not know the word but he knew TW and JW.

 

[Frodosdojo]

It is the way he is answering and his tone. I can not believe I am the only one hearing this in his answers.I think he has been coached by family and it is very apparent to me.
I suspect the rest of the kids will answer in the same manner and the states case is in jeopardy.

When I was his age and in foster care, one of my sister's classmates had been kidnapped after school let out. I would go to my sister's class to meet her so we would walk home together every day. The police came to the foster home and sked me if I knew what the truth and lie was. They asked me if I saw anything. I told an elaborate story to the officer about her being picked up in a car by a blonde woman wearing a white blouse and a grey skirt. I made up stories all the time and never thought I was lying or causing mischief. So for his age, I give him grace on his responses.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I think he was confused with the adopted parent question meaning he did not know the word but he knew TW and JW.

Since he never called them mom and dad, how would he know those were his adoptive parents ? I would blame TW and JW for him not understanding.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

When I was his age and in foster care, one of my sister's classmates had been kidnapped after school let out. I would go to my sister's class to meet her so we would walk home together every day. The police came to the foster home and sked me if I knew what the truth and lie was. They asked me if I saw anything. I told an elaborate story to the officer about her being picked up in a car by a blonde woman wearing a white blouse and a grey skirt. I made up stories all the time and never thought I was lying or causing mischief. So for his age, I give him grace on his responses.

Learning to lie is an extremely important skill, and you took your opportunity to try to lie to a person who is trained to spot liars.

I think it's important to remember that small children have a priority to survive to be adults, and it colors all their behaviors.

That said, I agree coaching is extremely likely in this case, and if even one juror has doubts, the state may well lose the case.

Of course, the real losers will be the boys, yet again.

 

[cuffem]

When I was his age and in foster care, one of my sister's classmates had been kidnapped after school let out. I would go to my sister's class to meet her so we would walk home together every day. The police came to the foster home and sked me if I knew what the truth and lie was. They asked me if I saw anything. I told an elaborate story to the officer about her being picked up in a car by a blonde woman wearing a white blouse and a grey skirt. I made up stories all the time and never thought I was lying or causing mischief. So for his age, I give him grace on his responses.

I suspect he was helped. I am not sure of the other children ages but if it is the same type of answering then I will have no doubt.

 

[cuffem]

Learning to lie is an extremely important skill, and you took your opportunity to try to lie to a person who is trained to spot liars.

I think it's important to remember that small children have a priority to survive to be adults, and it colors all their behaviors.

That said, I agree coaching is extremely likely in this case, and if even one juror has doubts, the state may well lose the case.

Of course, the real losers will be the boys, yet again.

Ursula could you hear it in his tone and how he answered those specific questions about Orson and Orrin?


I feel like a terrible person saying this and I do not mean any harm.

 

[cuffem]

He is stating he does not remember Orson and Orrin in the van when dropped off to grandma in Dec. He just stated he can not read currently at 10? He is saying he sometimes saw Orson and Orrin in the bunkbed but he does not remember.
TW and JW told him Orson and Orrin was to sleep there in the bunkbed.
They are playing the video of his interview. Now mind you he was 8 then. I am not sure this was a good idea putting the small children on the stand.
He says I do not know and I do not remember in those crucial questions, imo.
I do see how he can be confused because the questioning is confusing to me.

Stallings is asking if he was given something to read before coming there or given any "homework".
Did anyone tell you to call the Wests Jackie and Trezelle? No. Sometimes Jackie or mom or Trezell or dad.
Did anyone tell you to not look at your mom and dad? No.
When was the last time you saw your mom and dad? He said visits.
Grandma Wanda? Visits, Friday last week. In person.
Grandma Maria? Visit a little long time ago.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Ursula could you hear it in his tone and how he answered those specific questions about Orson and Orrin?


I feel like a terrible person saying this and I do not mean any harm.

I'm not able to listen to the feed at this time, but I'll take your word for it.

I suspect all the kids in that household were treated like the proverbial mushrooms, told repeatedly they didn't see anything, didn't know anything, and weren't even considering telling anyone what they're lying eyes might've thought they saw.

I think it's a common issue, too, that one or two children in a household are abused and even tortured, while the other kids seem to just look on without any real response. They don't know what to do, and they don't know who to trust, but they know what will happen to them if they try to do something and fail.

 

[cuffem]

I'm not able to listen to the feed at this time, but I'll take your word for it.

I suspect all the kids in that household were treated like the proverbial mushrooms, told repeatedly they didn't see anything, didn't know anything, and weren't even considering telling anyone what they're lying eyes might've thought they saw.

I think it's a common issue, too, that one or two children in a household are abused and even tortured, while the other kids seem to just look on without any real response. They don't know what to do, and they don't know who to trust, but they know what will happen to them if they try to do something and fail.

Don't take my word for it because the child sounds the same answering with Stallings as he did with the state. Lots of very matter of fact Yep! and Nope! He has to be nervous, I know I would be and he is 10. I am wondering how he can remember 2 years ago.
I have never heard a child on the stand before so maybe this is common answering.

 

[cuffem]

He is excused and subject for recall. 15 min. break.

REMINDER NO NAMES OF THE BOYS PLEASE!
Please let me know if I forget and type it.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I know I would be and he is 10. I am wondering how he can remember 2 years ago.

I think a ten year old is able to remember pretty well. I know at that age I could remember phone numbers for a lot of my friends, directions to a lot of places, rules for a lot of games, how to cook several different foods, when my homework was due...and a bunch of different fairy tales and nursery rhymes.

I suspect you're right about the coaching. Are the kids testifying in the open courtroom right in front of Trezell and Jacqueline? If so, intimidation may be a huge factor.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I think a ten year old is able to remember pretty well. I know at that age I could remember phone numbers for a lot of my friends, directions to a lot of places, rules for a lot of games, how to cook several different foods, when my homework was due...and a bunch of different fairy tales and nursery rhymes.

I suspect you're right about the coaching. Are the kids testifying in the open courtroom right in front of Trezell and Jacqueline? If so, intimidation may be a huge factor.

He was 8 at the time. I was 8 when I told my fantastical story to the police. I never saw it as lying. I vividly saw it and recounted it.

Anyways, the facts are he was told Orrin and Orsin went to live with Maria. Why would they tell the boys that if they weren't missing ? He can't remember exactly when he last saw them. I couldn't tell you when my youngest sister came to the foster home. These children lived and and still live in chaos - going from home to home. I cannot fault them at 8 years, 10 years and even younger to not have perfect memories of dates and times.

 

[cuffem]

Another child on the stand he is 8 y/o.He does not remember if Orrin and Orrin got into trouble or got punished by father. He did not play with Orson because he was in the other older 2 boys room. He did play with Orrin. He does not remember who stayed in what bedroom. He said he does not remember who was in the van going to Grandma Wanda's at Christmas.

They may not have been coached on what to say exactly but they surely have been told to say " I DO NOT REMEMBER " MOO!