GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

[PommyMommy]

I thought I should point out at the end of court when Stallings asked Barton forcefully, " Was she aware there was nothing found in the dig of the yard? "
When Barton answers, " Because they were not there! " She said it loudly and forcefully back at Stallings.
That is why the audience laughed. It seemed like an argument.

My favorite remark from today's testimony!

 

[PommyMommy]

MAY 3, 2023

West Trial Day 16: Trezell West’s mother gives emotional testimony​

In early December 2020, Wanda West told her son Trezell she knew what she wanted for Christmas: a photo of his family by the fireplace in their California City home wearing the robes she had bought them.

She never got the photo, Wanda West said Wednesday as tears formed and her head trembled as she struggled to contained her emotions. ...

[...]

Later Wednesday, Sunya Barton, a social worker who interviewed the Wests’ children on Dec. 22, 2020, was called to the witness stand.

[...]

Barton and Torres Stallings engaged in a couple feisty exchanges, one occurring shortly before the day’s proceedings ended.

[...]

Was she aware the Wests’ backyard in California City had been dug up and no human remains found? Yes, Barton said.

Torres Stallings then asked Barton if she was aware the Wests’ home had been searched and no forensic evidence found?

That’s because the children were never there, Barton said, producing chuckles from some audience members. Torres Stallings smirked, said “OK” then ended her questioning shortly afterward.

[...]

 

[cuffem]

MAY 3, 2023

West Trial Day 16: Trezell West’s mother gives emotional testimony​

In early December 2020, Wanda West told her son Trezell she knew what she wanted for Christmas: a photo of his family by the fireplace in their California City home wearing the robes she had bought them.

She never got the photo, Wanda West said Wednesday as tears formed and her head trembled as she struggled to contained her emotions. ...

[...]

Later Wednesday, Sunya Barton, a social worker who interviewed the Wests’ children on Dec. 22, 2020, was called to the witness stand.

[...]

Barton and Torres Stallings engaged in a couple feisty exchanges, one occurring shortly before the day’s proceedings ended.

[...]

Was she aware the Wests’ backyard in California City had been dug up and no human remains found? Yes, Barton said.

Torres Stallings then asked Barton if she was aware the Wests’ home had been searched and no forensic evidence found?

That’s because the children were never there, Barton said, producing chuckles from some audience members. Torres Stallings smirked, said “OK” then ended her questioning shortly afterward.

[...]

Oh! She said they were never there, not they were not there. Big difference.
I might have a mod change my post on that.

 

[cuffem]

I think Stallings asking Barton about the McMartin case, which she did not know, is she was trying to imply Barton's questioning may have led the children to false claims. IMO!
The McMartin case was about the preschool sexual abuse case that became famous.

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Frodosdojo]

Stallings is going round and round with her questioning and wearing out this kid, imo.
I do not understand her way of questioning right now. Can anyone explain? She is jumping around in her questioning on one subject then quickly to another without time for him to even think or respond. How does she expect him to keep up and not get confused? Maybe she wants him to not keep up. So far he has been able to hold up under her questions. Better than I could have.
She has to see how this could be rough on him. That question of Is he mad at his parents was way out of line and she should have been scolded for that, imo.
This child feels guilty already. I pray for him and his future and his siblings.

I am going to need a pillow to punch next week when she gets her go at it.

She's doing her job. She's not supposed to make his testimony clear and focused. She wants him to come off as unreliable when he is the only one besides the defendants who knows what really happened. Unfortunately for her, juries don't like it when you are harsh with children who are testifying.

Question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!

Because I have made mistakes in the transcribing and I am not sure how useful my posting live during trial is because people can look at tweets from KGET 17 live or read later, I do not want to clutter up the thread.
Not sure it is useful so should I not transcribe it and just post random comments during trial?

Pommy posting the tweets is the most accurate and most important info. KGET does not make any mistakes and gives better description.

I will not be offended.

I think you offer insight not in the tweets so I'm glad you are continuing.

In hearing Wanda's voice and the way she spoke that she was really trying to explain what she knew and what she did not know and explain in all sincerity how she did not notice a problem with Orrin and Orson gone.
She was not hiding anything, she really was duped.

IMO, their family dynamic is bizarre. How many grandparents here enjoy seeing their grandkids and make sure they get a hug from each one ? She was not as loving and involved as she portrays herself to be, IMO. The former foster kid testified his little brothers came back from Wanda's with more bruises and scars than they left with. Her home was seen as punishment.

So true!
I was thinking last night about the boys not getting ice cream or treats when the others did. I do not know why this bothered me more than anything. They have no understanding why they are not getting treats and the others are.
These punishments would only make them cry more.

I felt all the boys were only frustrated with the crying because of the parents, they mentioned it in the interviews, they may have only thought this after hearing and watching their parents complain and punish Orrin and Orson. IMO.

They seemed to me to have taught the boys not to care about each other. TW taught then to hit each other to "get their revenge". One of the younger boys said when they were spanked they "deserved it". There was a lot of teaching these boys that the abuse was normal, Classic and Cincere's crying was not, force feeding was necessary, and it was a crime to chew with your mouth open.

Remember when Josiah said he watched to make sure the boys did not hit each other ? My guess is they learned that as boys themselves, TW and Josiah were taught to hit each other and "get their revenge". Josiah seemed like he wanted to break that family curse.

 

[Chelly]

Question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!

Because I have made mistakes in the transcribing and I am not sure how useful my posting live during trial is because people can look at tweets from KGET 17 live or read later, I do not want to clutter up the thread.
Not sure it is useful so should I not transcribe it and just post random comments during trial?

Pommy posting the tweets is the most accurate and most important info. KGET does not make any mistakes and gives better description.

I will not be offended.

I think you are doing a great job and read every word in your posts.
my opinion

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!

Because I have made mistakes in the transcribing and I am not sure how useful my posting live during trial is because people can look at tweets from KGET 17 live or read later, I do not want to clutter up the thread.
Not sure it is useful so should I not transcribe it and just post random comments during trial?

Pommy posting the tweets is the most accurate and most important info. KGET does not make any mistakes and gives better description.

I will not be offended.

As I've had to give up trying to listen to the stream I've very much appreciated your efforts.

 

[cuffem]

She's doing her job. She's not supposed to make his testimony clear and focused. She wants him to come off as unreliable when he is the only one besides the defendants who knows what really happened. Unfortunately for her, juries don't like it when you are harsh with children who are testifying.

I think you offer insight not in the tweets so I'm glad you are continuing.

IMO, their family dynamic is bizarre. How many grandparents here enjoy seeing their grandkids and make sure they get a hug from each one ? She was not as loving and involved as she portrays herself to be, IMO. The former foster kid testified his little brothers came back from Wanda's with more bruises and scars than they left with. Her home was seen as punishment.

They seemed to me to have taught the boys not to care about each other. TW taught then to hit each other to "get their revenge". One of the younger boys said when they were spanked they "deserved it". There was a lot of teaching these boys that the abuse was normal, Classic and Cincere's crying was not, force feeding was necessary, and it was a crime to chew with your mouth open.

Remember when Josiah said he watched to make sure the boys did not hit each other ? My guess is they learned that as boys themselves, TW and Josiah were taught to hit each other and "get their revenge". Josiah seemed like he wanted to break that family curse.

You hit the nail on all of this.

What is funny about Stallings is in the process of trying to confuse witnesses she is confusing herself. Many times she gets the boys names wrong or forgets were she is in her questioning. I thought she would lose it with that round with Barton.
I think most of the sidebars is the judge trying to reel her back in from whatever loop she went into.

Wow! I had not thought of that part with Wanda and coming back with bruises. Why is the grandfather hardly mentioned?
Thanks for your thoughts on this.

 

[cuffem]

( Lord please let this day bring the boys closer to justice )
Alexander Carraberras is on Zoom.
He has lived in Texas since 2009,Arlington.
New baby 2022
5 in the family 2020.
A neighbor claimed to the FBI that he ,Alexander had 2 children Orrin and Orton (not Orson)
She gave make and license of car.
Multiracial family
He gave photo of his family at Thanksgiving 2022 to FBI
He does not know the neighbor in Texas that reported to FBI
Never a Orrin or Orton has ever been at his house.
Hennessy gives cross
Law enforcement only contacted him last week.
No Victor Rodriguez he knows.
He lived at that address by the neighbor in ?
None of his children are named Dereck.
He is excused.

Next on stand is detective John Dunn
Assigned to robbery and homicide
On March 11, 2021 he went to Oakdale with search Warrant
He was to search yard and garage
Pointing out map of area.
Photos of detached garage being shown
This is Maria Flores residence and garage
The photos are not from a garage in Cal City
Stallings on cross
She has mic not on ( barely audible )
He is excused.

Next is Jesse Perez. He has been recalled.
He reviewed JW's and Perla Martinez conversation onFacebook
Dec 17th 2020 conversation. Video chat 1:17 pm
2 more occurred following days

Stallings on cross
No audio for her again. ( can not hear, looking at tweets for her questions )
( She never remembers to turn on mic )
I think a sidebar?
It seems Stallings is attempting to move some papers into evidence. Smith objects
Perez excused ( She must have lost that one )

Next is Chad Garrett on stand
Bakersfield Police 15 years
Giving credentials.
Reviewed Google accounts in this case
JW and TW accounts

 

[cuffem]

Continuing with Chad Garrett
Reviewing google accounts of TW and JW
Google account change history ?
Account change form for phone number of TW (?)
They can change email location info in google account.
Deleted location info.? ( I am assuming they deleted their location with calls )++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can delete info everyday.
They had 5 different phone numbers between them, some shared
T mobile records entered for TW and JW
Displaying records, call detail records
Openning PDF, 36 pages Dec 5th 2020
Broke down phone numbers
Device change on Dec 5 2020 JW's
2 phone details changed on that day
Maria Martinez accounts looked at also
( A lot of boring technical details on records )
Garrett is explaining software used to review records
Going over date and times and towers for calls between TW and JW ( seems they deleted info on these calls that day )+++
Also calls with Maria included
Calls were for Dec 5th 2020
Maria got a call from JW that day at 1:31pm that day ( I will have to go back and fix and list these calls )
call log below
15 min. break ( thank God! )

 

[cuffem]

List of calls
Dec 5 2020
TW to JW at 12:44 for 130 seconds
TW to JW at 1:23 for 74 seconds same tower
JW to Maria at 1:31pm
TW to JW at 1: 35pm for 52 seconds. Different towers
Number associated with Maria to owner not listed number
TW to JW at 2:07 for 22 seconds, two different towers
TW to JW no duration same tower
Maria to JW at 2:41 and 3:03 pm
TW to JW for 27 sec. same tower
TW makes call from Cal City at 5:15pm
TW receives a call 3 min. later
Maria calls an 877 # at 8:07pm
TW and JW communicated numerous times day later between 12pm and 3:30 with TW's phone in Cal City

 

[cuffem]

Nasser for TW on cross with Sgt. Garrett
Nasser going over call details ?
Nasser asks about rolling deletions.
( I am having difficulty understanding this testimony, sorry! ) refer to tweets
( HA! not seeing tweets from kget currently, they are lost also maybe. )
( I like Nasser but he is stumbling )
Nasser ends
STALLINGS AGAIN HAS MIC OFF!!!!!! can not hear her questions, refer to tweets.
Garrett is aware they hd several phones seized during investigation, associated with Maria

Sgt Garrett excused
Next is Sgt Thomas Hernandez recalled
Bakersfield robbery and homicide, became lead
Maybe conducted 70/80 interviews in case.
Interviewed JW in blue room
Playing interview between him, Det. Perez and JW and her attorney
Video I hour 23min. start morning finish afternoon.
Asking JW is there anything she can tell them to help with the case? No
They tell her she can stop interview anytime
Auntie TT watched O/O for a week? ( Is this a Zanny Nanny?)+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
She has no number for TT anymore ( she is trying to throw O/O family member under the bus, imo )
Wanda had 4 boys, TW and JW had O/O during sale and keys from realtor
Officer asking about who was in contact with them during this time
O sweet but grumpy
JW says they were slightly delayed
No delay concerns brought up by CPS
Orrin did not like speaking to them parents
Did not express verbally, Orson same.
Potty trained yes and no
diapers at night
everybody is a heavy sleeper
Found diapers
Mainly Orson wore once a week
Not wearing diapers at time of disappearance
Discussing day they went to bank to drop off Wanda ( boys asleep in van )
Only one bio child had no carseat.
Showing where O/O carseats were located in van ( JW writing on paper )
Mom in front
Mom called on 5th Dec. about picking up shelving that someone was giving away
Stayed together that day
Anyone other than Maria watch them, No
Both had on black Nikes. Does not know sizes. ( SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!! )
She shows on paper the bottom bunk where they slept
Suspicion on ? ( could not find tweet on this, something about affair suspected? )

Suspicion on pest control guy ( dude getting run over by JW bus )
Avoided calls from O/O bio family
Only TT had contact with JW
TT would just show up no other bio family would show up. ( I think Zanny Nanny )
TT took O/O in June 2020 for a week ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
She thought of calling police that week on TT but she did not because they were returned. +++++++++++++++++++++++++
( Bet there is no evidence of a TT or her picking up children is my guess, not sure she is real )++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[cuffem]

( more interview of JW )
Officers step out of interview
JW and attorney alone talking ( I can not really hear this conversation. )
Officers asking about diapers of 3 kids
Luv's brand all the same size.( bet the size diapers did not fit them all. Shows she had no care to tend to each child needs )
Kept clothes in ? O/O wore same size clothes.( This is very telling being they are different ages, weight lose or just shared clothes? )++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Discussing holiday decorations at table and where kids sat.
Wrapping gifts on Dec 21 2020 day boys went missing
JW telling what she bought kids for Christmas.
Robes,
Pausing video
Jurors back at 1:30 ( Will be shown something ) video maybe?
Everyone else 1:45
Lunch

 

[Frodosdojo]

She didn't buy anything for those kids for Christmas ! Wanda bought the robes and Perla bought the blocks and paint set. I know they must have Dollar Trees in California and there are all kinds of toys they could have gotten for $1.25. It just boggles the mind.

 

[cuffem]

She didn't buy anything for those kids for Christmas ! Wanda bought the robes and Perla bought the blocks and paint set. I know they must have Dollar Trees in California and there are all kinds of toys they could have gotten for $1.25. It just boggles the mind.

I could not hear what she said about gifts to O/O except the robes from Wanda. Seriously there was nothing for them?
Why do they keep taking about the decorations at the tables? I assume there were no hats for O/O , well because " THEY WERE NEVER THERE!.
Frodo is there a real TT or is she made up? I only heard little about this that I recall.

 

[Laughing]

So true!
I was thinking last night about the boys not getting ice cream or treats when the others did. I do not know why this bothered me more than anything. They have no understanding why they are not getting treats and the others are.
These punishments would only make them cry more.

I felt all the boys were only frustrated with the crying because of the parents, they mentioned it in the interviews, they may have only thought this after hearing and watching their parents complain and punish Orrin and Orson. IMO.

IIRC from undergrad Sociology decades ago, TW engaged in a child-rearing style known as "warrior training." At least one of the boys mentioned learning self-defense, the child whose blended dinner (um no thanks) was encouraged to punch the other child, their rooms described a a military barracks.

Crying has no place here.

Not ideal for a modern human imho, horrific for a toddler who needs care & consistency & routine & healthy boundaries & LOVE!

(Per Google, today's Warrior Training is for kids who aspire to Ninjas???)

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[cuffem]

IIRC from undergrad Sociology decades ago, TW engaged in a child-rearing style known as "warrior training." At least one of the boys mentioned learning self-defense, the child whose blended dinner (um no thanks) was encouraged to punch the other child, their rooms described a a military barracks.

Crying has no place here.

Not ideal for a modern human imho, horrific for a toddler who needs care & consistency & routine & healthy boundaries & LOVE!

(Per Google, today's Warrior Training is for kids who aspire to Ninjas???)

jmho ymmv lrr

Are you kidding me????
I was wondering why they had all boys and no girls.
Thank you so much for this. I hope we hear more about it. Will this be part of their defense or is the Prosecution using it?
Either way it looks bad. So that is their defense on using the stick as defense not beating?
OH! Wait! This could be why one child of the four is only homeschooled by TW. This seemed off to me, imo.
Homeschool is not a military camp.
Were O/O being homeschooled at all in any capacity by JW or were they put in their room while the others were schooled in another room?

 

[cuffem]

( After lunch testimony reviewing JW interview )
( What could they be playing for the jury privately? ) OH! The jury reviewed the make and model of the U haul truck.

Only transportation at the time van and U haul
It was Wandas moving gift to them for the move, house gift.
The move happened Sept 18 to 20 2020
Describing the move activities, Cleaning both places and packing.
Haul dropped off at the Ace in Cal City by TW
She stayed with kids
Officer says he knows Wanda cared for the kids that move for 3 days not her JW.+++++++++++++++++++++++BINGO! lie!
He asks what she was doing helping him those days where they went with O/O?++++++++++++++++++++BINGO!
The day they u haul returned on 20th who cared for O/O
Wanda may have gone with TW to return truck.
Where was van during return of U haul?
JW can not remember who was in the van the day of last trip on 20th Officer says its not that hard!
She says were she was the kids were there. All of them and O/O.
WANDA TESTIFIED SHE NEVER SAW O/O DURING MOVE+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++(Therefore they were not at Cal City home with JW+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Did she meet Wanda at McDonald to drop off kids around move time. No?
Everybody is a suspect
When did you get new phone? Birthday Dec.
Discussing why no pics of the boys on phone.
Asks does she have any pics of the moving days of O/O. No
Not allowed to share pic of foster kids they were told ( but it was a year after adoption)
JW tried to transfer from old to new phone.
Now throwing bio family under bus ( BEEP! BEEP! )
Officer says her and TW seem always together
Things have come up during investigation. The one child said what he said ( Interview by Barton shown yesterday )
Be honest about Dec 5th
He knows TW and JW were alone and Wanda was with kids
Child said something happened at home. She said it is not true.
( Something about living in an RV going from job to job ) ?????????????????
( Putting the screws to her to tell the truth )
Something happened to those kids. This is not going away.
If an accident happened, TW? He does not know
He says he knows boys were not in van.
She told boys to pretend they were not there as to why the boys say they were gone.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He says Wanda did not watch O/O that day. Her statements do not match up.
( I hear her attorney say to her " Just listen " several times. )
We need to know what you are holding back.
No one put this in kids heads.
There is no way out but honesty!
JW says it was unfortunate what happened but it was not her fault. ( Unfortunate is how describes missing children? )
End of video

 

[cuffem]

Smith continues questions to Hernandez
We found no evidence that O/O were there.
There was nothing from Sept to Dec. 2020 about the boys on google info.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No pictures, video from July 2020 of O/O++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TW text to mom of photo of electric bill on Dec 14th 2020 included Ha! Ha!'s
TW to Jamal texts Ha Ha they only play with Josiah not even watching tv. Ha! Ha!
Dec 16 2020 Wanda asks for photo of kids for Christmas
TW calls 911 on Dec 21 2020 and then makes a 4 min call
Going over documents on adoption info and amount.found on TW's phone
There were photos of Cal City home inside and outside but no photos of O/O on TW phone
Hernandez said he looked the gate at home in Cal City
Changes to gate occurred since missing reported. New bolts on gate. Photos of gate.
Photos of fence they inspected on
Hernandez looking up date of inspection
15 min break

( I missed a lot of this discussion, going to fast for me )
( Did not see anything to add from KGET tweets )

 

[Frodosdojo]

I could not hear what she said about gifts to O/O except the robes from Wanda. Seriously there was nothing for them?
Why do they keep taking about the decorations at the tables? I assume there were no hats for O/O , well because " THEY WERE NEVER THERE!.
Frodo is there a real TT or is she made up? I only heard little about this that I recall.

Perla sent blocks and a paint kit. Wanda sent the robes. I'm wondering where their money went. They were staging the scene as if Classic and Cincere were still there. Stallings-Torres loves to point out the hats and the number of chairs but to me, it makes them more evil.

Are you kidding me????
I was wondering why they had all boys and no girls.
Thank you so much for this. I hope we hear more about it. Will this be part of their defense or is the Prosecution using it?
Either way it looks bad. So that is their defense on using the stick as defense not beating?
OH! Wait! This could be why one child of the four is only homeschooled by TW. This seemed off to me, imo.
Homeschool is not a military camp.
Were O/O being homeschooled at all in any capacity by JW or were they put in their room while the others were schooled in another room?

Classic and Cincere were not home schooled.