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GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8
- Thread starter PommyMommy
- Start date
Thurs May 11, 2023
Judge Charles R. Brehmer
Jury can take notes Should take 1 hr. ( Really hope this is recorded and posted by media )
Judge giving sunrise/sunset date and times
During time of Sept. 2020 when they believe boys died
Jury Instructions
You decide alone on evidence presented
No bias against any party, victim, attorney.
Must decide each charge on each defendant separately.
Count 7 False Reporting Dec 21, 2020
Counts 1-6 crimes took place Sept 2020
Do not research info on the case
Do not regard anything about the case you heard outside court
Any testimony stricken should be ignored
Discusses Circumstantial evidence ( see tweets )
Witnesses, you may believe all part or none of their testimony
Do not disregard inconsistencies
Instructions on Officers Hanson and Hightower on video surveillance
Must decide if a witness gave accurate testimony
You must not dismiss or discount Childs testimony just because they are a child
You must disregard any information from expert witness you deem
Defendant has a right to not testify
Do not let that decide if a defendant is innocent or guilty
Can not convict unless proved beyond reasonable doubt
If Wests made false statements before trial that must not be considered guilt by itself
Discusses motive instructions
There have been evidence of uncharged crimes, child abuse, it can be considered.
Can not be used as evidence alone.
Both are charged with both Murder and Manslaughter
Reads requirements for murder, manslaughter
Counts 1, 4 and 5 charged with murder (gave description) Orrin ?
A parents have a legal duty to care for a child
Explaining 1st and 2nd degree murder considerations
Count 4 conspiracy to commit murder
Judge Charles R. Brehmer
Jury can take notes Should take 1 hr. ( Really hope this is recorded and posted by media )
Judge giving sunrise/sunset date and times
During time of Sept. 2020 when they believe boys died
Jury Instructions
You decide alone on evidence presented
No bias against any party, victim, attorney.
Must decide each charge on each defendant separately.
Count 7 False Reporting Dec 21, 2020
Counts 1-6 crimes took place Sept 2020
Do not research info on the case
Do not regard anything about the case you heard outside court
Any testimony stricken should be ignored
Discusses Circumstantial evidence ( see tweets )
Witnesses, you may believe all part or none of their testimony
Do not disregard inconsistencies
Instructions on Officers Hanson and Hightower on video surveillance
Must decide if a witness gave accurate testimony
You must not dismiss or discount Childs testimony just because they are a child
You must disregard any information from expert witness you deem
Defendant has a right to not testify
Do not let that decide if a defendant is innocent or guilty
Can not convict unless proved beyond reasonable doubt
If Wests made false statements before trial that must not be considered guilt by itself
Discusses motive instructions
There have been evidence of uncharged crimes, child abuse, it can be considered.
Can not be used as evidence alone.
Both are charged with both Murder and Manslaughter
Reads requirements for murder, manslaughter
Counts 1, 4 and 5 charged with murder (gave description) Orrin ?
A parents have a legal duty to care for a child
Explaining 1st and 2nd degree murder considerations
Count 4 conspiracy to commit murder
Last edited:
Cont.
( Missed Count 1 )
Among allegations a co conspirator killed Orson Sept 17 2020
Explaining Overt act
Explaining Involuntary Manslaughter Count 2
No voluntary manslaughter considered
Person commits murder but did not intend to kill
Great bodily injury, child abuse Counts 3 and 6
Counts 3 regarding Orrin
Count 6 regarding Orson
Already explained criminal negligence
Do not have to all agree on Overt act
Count 7 False report of crime
Discussing report causing Emergency Amber Alert
Done with Instructions
Closing Arguments Tuesday.
Multiple closing arguments
Prosecution can go first and last they have burden of proof
Can not ask for Police Reports themselves are not in evidence but can request testimony on those reports
CLOSING ARGUMENTS 9:00 AM TUESDAY MAY 16 2023
( Missed Count 1 )
Among allegations a co conspirator killed Orson Sept 17 2020
Explaining Overt act
Explaining Involuntary Manslaughter Count 2
No voluntary manslaughter considered
Person commits murder but did not intend to kill
Great bodily injury, child abuse Counts 3 and 6
Counts 3 regarding Orrin
Count 6 regarding Orson
Already explained criminal negligence
Do not have to all agree on Overt act
Count 7 False report of crime
Discussing report causing Emergency Amber Alert
Done with Instructions
Closing Arguments Tuesday.
Multiple closing arguments
Prosecution can go first and last they have burden of proof
Can not ask for Police Reports themselves are not in evidence but can request testimony on those reports
CLOSING ARGUMENTS 9:00 AM TUESDAY MAY 16 2023
Last edited:
Was this to establish that she didn't call someone that could be Aunt TT that day? Forgive me if I'm mistaken, as I haven't been following as closely as I would have liked, but isn't that when the kids supposedly went to that person? MOO.
Thank you so much! I think you are right.
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JURY INSTRUCTIONS
DAY TWENTY ONE - May 11, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews
Judge Charles R. Brehmer is about to read jury instructions in the case of Trezell and Jacqueline West. First he's telling the jury the dates of sunrise and sunset on certain dates in September 2020, the month in which prosecutors say Orrin, 4, and Orson, 3, died. #WestsTrial
2:07 PM · May 11, 2023
Brehmer is reading the instructions. It's expected to take about an hour. #WestsTrial
He said some of the instructions may not apply depending on their findings in the case. He told them not to do any research or investigate the facts of the law regarding this case. #WestsTrial
The jury must separately consider the evidence and each charge against each defendant separately. Both Trezell and West are charged with the 7 same crimes. For counts 1-6, the crimes allegedly took place in Sept. 2020, and county 7 on Dec. 21, 2020. #WestsTrial
Brehmer said the fact that charges have been filed does not mean the defendants are guilty. They are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. #WestsTrial
The judge said evidence is the sworn testimony of witnesses, exhibits presented during the trial and anything else he specifically identified as evidence. Nothing the attorneys say is evidence. #WestsTrial
Any testimony stricken from the record must be ignored, Brehmer said. Anything the jurors heard outside the courtroom also must be ignored. #WestsTrial
Facts can be proved by direct or circumstantial evidence. Both are equally valid. Circumstantial evidence is evidence of another fact or group of facts from which you can conclude the truth of the fact in question, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
If 2 or more reasonable conclusions can be drawn from circumstantial evidence, and one points to innocence and the other to guilt, the jury must choose the one that points to innocence, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
With witnesses, the jury must consider whether the witness knows someone in the case and has a certain bias, and whether they made inconsistent statements. #WestsTrial
The testimony of only one witness can prove any fact, Brehmer said. But before determining that, the jury should review all evidence. #WestsTrial
Both the prosecution, defense and law enforcement must disclose their evidence at a specified time before trial. Two Cal City officers had contact with a man in Cal City who had video surveillance but didn't take notes or use their body cameras to record this contact. #WestsTrial
The officers did not seize, obtain or ask for the surveillance footage from the man. It wasn't until the testimony of one of the officers that anyone else became aware of the existence of the video. Because of this the defense couldn't view it. #WestsTrial
The jury can take that into consideration. #WestsTrial
The jury can use statements witnesses made before trial to determine if what they said in court was true. This includes children 10 and younger who testified at trial. "You should not discount or distrust the testimony of a witness just because he or she is a child. #WestsTrial
A defendant has an absolute constitutional right not to testify, Brehmer said, telling the jury not to consider for any reason the fact that the defendants did not testify. That is not allowed to influence their decision. #WestsTrial
If the Wests made false or misleading statements before trial, that can't prove guilt by itself. #WestsTrial
There has been evidence presented of uncharged crimes -- child abuse -- and that can be considered along with the other evidence. The evidence of the uncharged crimes can't be used by itself to determine guilt of charged crimes, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
A defendant is not responsible for any acts before he or she joined a conspiracy, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
The defendants are charged with both murder and manslaughter. Brehmer is explaining the differences. #WestsTrial
To prove they're guilty of murder, prosecution must prove they committed an act that caused the death of another person or they had a duty to act to prevent the death of Orrin West, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
A parent has a legal duty to help or care for their minor child, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
Among the allegations is that an unknown co-conspirator killed Orson West on Sept. 17, 2020. #WestsTrial
A separate decision must be made as to whether each defendant was part of a conspiracy, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
For count 2, involuntary manslaughter, Brehmer said that crime occurs when a person commits an unlawful killing but does not intend to kill. #WestsTrial
The Wests are charged with two counts of child abuse likely to result in death or great bodily harm, one count for Orrin, the other for Orson. #WestsTrial
The judge has finished reading the instructions. #WestsTrial
The judge said police and law enforcement reports are not in evidence. The jury when deliberating can request testimony about those reports, not the reports themselves. #WestsTrial
Closing arguments are scheduled 9 a.m. Tuesday. #WestsTrial
DAY TWENTY ONE - May 11, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews
Judge Charles R. Brehmer is about to read jury instructions in the case of Trezell and Jacqueline West. First he's telling the jury the dates of sunrise and sunset on certain dates in September 2020, the month in which prosecutors say Orrin, 4, and Orson, 3, died. #WestsTrial
2:07 PM · May 11, 2023
Brehmer is reading the instructions. It's expected to take about an hour. #WestsTrial
He said some of the instructions may not apply depending on their findings in the case. He told them not to do any research or investigate the facts of the law regarding this case. #WestsTrial
The jury must separately consider the evidence and each charge against each defendant separately. Both Trezell and West are charged with the 7 same crimes. For counts 1-6, the crimes allegedly took place in Sept. 2020, and county 7 on Dec. 21, 2020. #WestsTrial
Brehmer said the fact that charges have been filed does not mean the defendants are guilty. They are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. #WestsTrial
The judge said evidence is the sworn testimony of witnesses, exhibits presented during the trial and anything else he specifically identified as evidence. Nothing the attorneys say is evidence. #WestsTrial
Any testimony stricken from the record must be ignored, Brehmer said. Anything the jurors heard outside the courtroom also must be ignored. #WestsTrial
Facts can be proved by direct or circumstantial evidence. Both are equally valid. Circumstantial evidence is evidence of another fact or group of facts from which you can conclude the truth of the fact in question, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
If 2 or more reasonable conclusions can be drawn from circumstantial evidence, and one points to innocence and the other to guilt, the jury must choose the one that points to innocence, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
With witnesses, the jury must consider whether the witness knows someone in the case and has a certain bias, and whether they made inconsistent statements. #WestsTrial
The testimony of only one witness can prove any fact, Brehmer said. But before determining that, the jury should review all evidence. #WestsTrial
Both the prosecution, defense and law enforcement must disclose their evidence at a specified time before trial. Two Cal City officers had contact with a man in Cal City who had video surveillance but didn't take notes or use their body cameras to record this contact. #WestsTrial
The officers did not seize, obtain or ask for the surveillance footage from the man. It wasn't until the testimony of one of the officers that anyone else became aware of the existence of the video. Because of this the defense couldn't view it. #WestsTrial
The jury can take that into consideration. #WestsTrial
The jury can use statements witnesses made before trial to determine if what they said in court was true. This includes children 10 and younger who testified at trial. "You should not discount or distrust the testimony of a witness just because he or she is a child. #WestsTrial
A defendant has an absolute constitutional right not to testify, Brehmer said, telling the jury not to consider for any reason the fact that the defendants did not testify. That is not allowed to influence their decision. #WestsTrial
If the Wests made false or misleading statements before trial, that can't prove guilt by itself. #WestsTrial
There has been evidence presented of uncharged crimes -- child abuse -- and that can be considered along with the other evidence. The evidence of the uncharged crimes can't be used by itself to determine guilt of charged crimes, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
A defendant is not responsible for any acts before he or she joined a conspiracy, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
The defendants are charged with both murder and manslaughter. Brehmer is explaining the differences. #WestsTrial
To prove they're guilty of murder, prosecution must prove they committed an act that caused the death of another person or they had a duty to act to prevent the death of Orrin West, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
A parent has a legal duty to help or care for their minor child, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
Among the allegations is that an unknown co-conspirator killed Orson West on Sept. 17, 2020. #WestsTrial
A separate decision must be made as to whether each defendant was part of a conspiracy, Brehmer said. #WestsTrial
For count 2, involuntary manslaughter, Brehmer said that crime occurs when a person commits an unlawful killing but does not intend to kill. #WestsTrial
The Wests are charged with two counts of child abuse likely to result in death or great bodily harm, one count for Orrin, the other for Orson. #WestsTrial
The judge has finished reading the instructions. #WestsTrial
The judge said police and law enforcement reports are not in evidence. The jury when deliberating can request testimony about those reports, not the reports themselves. #WestsTrial
Closing arguments are scheduled 9 a.m. Tuesday. #WestsTrial
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I don’t know… there is just something about the body language of these two when the camera pans their way. TW looks up like he’s listening when he doesn’t have his head ducked down, but JW doesn’t even appear to be doing that. Like she’s just off in space…
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Thanks @cuffem and @PommyMommy .
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Okay let's keep this roll going. Alex Murdaugh GUILTY ALL COUNTS Lori Vallow GUILTY ALL COUNTS...Jacqueline & Trezell West need to be found guilty on all counts next week.
And don't forget Letecia Stauch Guilty on all counts too! Hopefully O & O get their justice too!
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so far it's been a good couple of trial result weeks here at WS, I hope the streak continues. Come on jury, please get it right!
Be sure to click on the circled i for more information.
Here's the updated Case Archive, JUSTICE section:
photobucket.com
The Case Archive leading up to the arrests:
photobucket.com
Here's the updated Case Archive, JUSTICE section:
JUSTICE for Orrin / Cinsere and Orson /Classic
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
The Case Archive leading up to the arrests:
Orrin and Orson West -CA-
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
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Your work, across countless threads, is extraordinary.Be sure to click on the circled i for more information.
Here's the updated Case Archive, JUSTICE section:
JUSTICE for Orrin / Cinsere and Orson /Classic
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
The Case Archive leading up to the arrests:
Orrin and Orson West -CA-
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
Some photos of the boys I hadn't seen before.
Wish I could reach into those photographs and save them.
Why, why, why.
Thank you for all the photos. The articles are all in the Media thread by Pommy Mommy also.Be sure to click on the circled i for more information.
Here's the updated Case Archive, JUSTICE section:
JUSTICE for Orrin / Cinsere and Orson /Classic
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
The Case Archive leading up to the arrests:
Orrin and Orson West -CA-
Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!
CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION
DEC 21, 2020 Boys, 3 and 4, missing from California City | KGET 17 Police say two boys, ages 3 and 4, have gone missing. An employee at the California City Police Department said she hadn’t been told by her lieutenant to release their names. [...] “2 MISSING MALE JUVENILES, LAST SEEN IN THE...
www.websleuths.com
I hope Jacqueline West is thinking long and hard about Orson and Orrin today on Mothers Day and how she might not see her other children outside of prison ever again, unless she tells what happened and where they are located.
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