GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

[cuffem]

Morning Testimony, Part 2
DAY NINETEEN - May 9, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Back in session. Alekxia Torres Stallings, lead counsel for Jacqueline West, is going to play several videos. #WestsTrial

The first video is of Officer Brian Hansen interviewing the eldest son on Dec. 22, 2020. #WestsTrial

The next videos are from interviews with the eldest child on Dec. 28, 2020. Social worker Sunya Barton asks him what he smelled when Orrin had died. He says he didn't smell anything. #WestsTrial

A minute later he says he did smell something but couldn't tell what it was. #WestsTrial

The boy asks the social worker if his parents have enough food because there is police tape surrounding the house. #WestsTrial

That video has ended and another one is about to be played. #WestsTrial

Court is breaking for lunch early, won't return until 1:45 p.m. Judge Charles R. Brehmer said they're getting close to the end of the trial. #WestsTrial

Oh! Great you are here PommyMommy.
Really needed the tweets today. I could not keep up with the reading of the transcripts.
Much appreciated!

Pommy should I try to continue? You will continue with the tweets? It might be better than what I get typed.

 

[PommyMommy]

Oh! Great you are here PommyMommy.
Really needed the tweets today. I could not keep up with the reading of the transcripts.
Much appreciated!

Pommy should I try to continue? You will continue with the tweets? It might be better than what I get typed.

Just popping in while at work, cuffem. Please continue if you can - I'll be back on later this afternoon.

 

[cuffem]

Just popping in while at work, cuffem. Please continue if you can - I'll be back on later this afternoon.

No worries! Thanks! for dropping in with the tweets.

 

[Laughing]

Those poor kids.

I understand the defense attorney's job -- but -- those poor kids.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[cuffem]

Those poor kids.

I understand the defense attorney's job -- but -- those poor kids.

jmho ymmv lrr

Laughing, just so you know that the children are not currently on the stand. A person is reading their court testimony from watching videos of their interview.
All of what is read is what the boy said in court, just someone reading the transcript today.

It has been confusing not being able to see to understand what is going on.

 

[cuffem]

Contradicting testimony

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656032818332327936

 

[Laughing]

Laughing just so you know that the children are not currently on the stand. A person is reading their court testimony from watching videos of their interview.
All of what is read is what the boy said in court, just someone reading the transcript today.

It has been confusing not being able to see to understand what is going on.

Thank you, I do know that. Reading the transcript is preferable to putting a child back on the stand.

A fellow poster pointed out upthread -- if a parent or parents are acquitted -- they return to the described situation.

If parent(s) are convicted, the 4 are still uprooted and their youngest brothers are still gone. Currently, I think the 4 boys are together? The two adopted kids -- probably lived for years in alternative care, placed in this family, adopted -- and now back in care for years.

Just a shame for all 6 of them imho.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[cuffem]

Court has been very late in starting today. Now an hour and 15 min. late from a longer lunch.

 

[PommyMommy]

I didn't see anything from after lunch on KGET, but found this on BakersfieldNow's twitter:

Afternoon Testimony
DAY NINETEEN - May 9, 2023

https://twitter.com/bakersfieldnow

Court is back in session for the afternoon. #Westtrial
1:52 PM

Judge Brehmer told the jury closing arguments will likely be on Tuesday. Friday and Monday are dark days, no trial. There’s no time limit for closing arguments. Whenever that is over the jury will begin deliberations. Court is adjourned for the rest of the day. #Westtrial

Back in court tomorrow at 9:00 AM. #Westtrial
1:58 PM

 

[cuffem]

I didn't see anything from after lunch on KGET, but found this on BakersfieldNow's twitter:

Afternoon Testimony
DAY NINETEEN - May 9, 2023

https://twitter.com/bakersfieldnow

Court is back in session for the afternoon. #Westtrial
1:52 PM

Judge Brehmer told the jury closing arguments will likely be on Tuesday. Friday and Monday are dark days, no trial. There’s no time limit for closing arguments. Whenever that is over the jury will begin deliberations. Court is adjourned for the rest of the day. #Westtrial

Back in court tomorrow at 9:00 AM. #Westtrial
1:58 PM

Thank you for this, I had been checking constantly.

 

[Frodosdojo]

I wonder if someone is ready to throw the under one under the bus ? I have seen interviews with the bio family where they have stated they just want to know where the boys are.

 

[k-mac]

But that is exactly what they are trying to show, that is basically their case. Trying to prove Barton, Castillo, LE and caregivers influenced the child interview. Therefore they are trying to say it is not true and child lied.

I am very tired right now from 7 hours of typing this and been sick all weekend so not going to get into it. I made the point I stick to it.

we are so grateful!
you are amazing!
Be well soon!xx

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Thank-you so much to all who have been relaying what is going on. It's very much appreciated.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAY 9, 2023

West Trial Day 19: Eldest child gave conflicting statements to grand jury

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. (KGET) — The eldest child of Trezell and Jacqueline West told the Kern County Grand Jury last year he saw his youngest brothers just days before Christmas 2020, contradict…

www.kget.com

The eldest child of Trezell and Jacqueline West told the Kern County Grand Jury last year he saw his youngest brothers just days before Christmas 2020, contradicting earlier interviews in which he said he hadn’t seen the children for weeks before they were reported missing.

It wasn’t until about 30 minutes into his testimony — after being shown an earlier interview with a social worker — that the boy told the grand jury he heard his brother Orrin, 4, gagging one night and the next day his parents told him he had died. As questioning continued, he said he hadn’t seen his youngest brother, Orson, 3, for a long time before he and Orrin were reported missing, and he believed Orson had been staying at a grandmother’s house.

The child’s hour-long testimony was read Tuesday morning as defense counsel for Trezell and Jacqueline West attempted to show the child, then 10, was influenced by improper questioning and his testimony is unreliable.

[...]

 

[PommyMommy]

MAY 9, 2023

Grand jury testimony of Wests’ eldest son read in court

When being questioned before the Grand Jury, the eldest son of Trezell and Jacqueline West seemed confused, sometimes giving conflicting responses.

www.turnto23.com

The child also gave conflicting statements, claiming Orrin and Orson were in the van with them when the four older boys were dropped off at their grandmother's home but then saying that Orrin had gone to stay with Jacqueline's mother, as well as Orson.

The defense has alleged that the couple's oldest child was "primed" with false memories and badgered into making false statements about Orrin and Orson. Attorneys believe these inconsistencies and conflicting statements were the result of improper questioning, noting that the child hadn't made allegations of Orrin's death until after he'd been interviewed multiple times.

West Trial Day 19: Wests' oldest biological son testifies, gives contradicting statement

The trial of Trezell and Jacqueline West continued Tuesday morning. They're the couple accused of killing their adopted children, Orrin and Orson.

bakersfieldnow.com

He also told a social worker when his family was living in Bakersfield. He heard gagging at night.

The next morning, his parents checked on Orrin and found vomit and he was dead. He also said he heard a bump in the night in their California City home and after that, he didn't see Orson again.

 

[cuffem]

I wonder if someone is ready to throw the under one under the bus ? I have seen interviews with the bio family where they have stated they just want to know where the boys are.

I kept thinking this when they never came back from lunch today.

Does anyone think the McMartin case claim is going to work on at least one juror? I got a little nervous when the judge said a juror had asked how many interviews one of the children had with a forensic interviewer. It was 3.

 

[cuffem]

May 10,2023
Judge discussing stricken testimony ( I think regarding Castillo )
Stallings calls Dr. Susan Napolitano ( I called her Sarah the other day )
In private practice, clinical and mental psychology
Licensed for 30 years
Train 36/40 hours a year
Giving credentials.
Had worked at Sullivan Center for 20 years
Treating children as young as 2/3 y/o
Yes, played a role in some FBI cases.
Trained forensic interviewer
150 times testifying in court
Criminal, civil court
Both for defense and prosecution
Has not met TW and JW
To not be biased in the case
Has not met the children
Was told to only look at the interviews not look at outcome of case
Started looking at case May 2022
$350. an hour for forensic work
This case 100 hours
Working for both parents
Reviewed police report, videos of interviews, police and CPS summaries and transcripts
Reviewed, listened transcript of Hanson, Castillo and Barton
Transcripts of boys testimony
Power point presentation
What is a goal for forensic interviewer
Get the facts correct and not influence the child with personal beliefs
Prevent false conviction or false acquittal
Giving history of forensic interviews
Discussing McMartin case ( without saying the name )
Improper interviewing techniques
Numerous convictions
Objection(?)
There was not a standard model for questioning children during the 1980's abuse hysteria
objection again
Because of convictions recommendations and protocols were developed
Will discuss 2 studies( Please see tweets with better explanation )
In study played Simon says, touch your nose and touch other Childs nose.
1 month later questioned kids
Interviewer not told anything
Some children stated they were told to touch toe. ( seriously! this is it? )
Study on false memories
Adults questioned on 4 memories from childhood
3 events were accurate, 1 was not based on info from family
25% talked about being lost in a mall falsely
Cognitive dissonance is 2 conflicting info where person fills in the blanks
Should not rely on summary, need to see child interviewed
It is common untrained people have talked to child
Get child in for interview asap because as days goes by info gets tainted
Suggestibility is you give the answer in the question
Can influence how they respond and their memory
Child will agree with your mindset if you are biased in case beliefs
You are there for fact finder
We as people look for info to confirm our beliefs
Stallings asks if used diapers are confirmation bias???????????????????????????????????
Interviewer is trained to not have bias in questions asked or ones not asked
Selected Attention used to say you only selected to view certain info
Count how many times the people in white passed the ball ( playing on screen ) Selective Attention example
Answer 15 but did you see Gorilla.? ( Good Lord! )
When you are not looking for something you do not see it. Is the point
Plausible explanation to explain what you are seeing
( She starts to reference O/O but objection )
Hypothesis parents are responsible and alternate hypothesis it was abduction

 

[LaborDayRN]

Reading of transcripts was fast for me to get everything. It might not make much sense but the tweets will help.
Why are they reading a transcript of testimony already said in court? They are going over the most damning parts where the child tells of the abuse and death of Orrin an no longer seeing Orson.

How is this helping there case ? They are only reinforcing what the boy saw and that is not good for the parents.
This tactic by the defense could backfire on them, IMO!

I apologize if my notes look bad, trying my best. Hard to do when they were reading a transcript of testimony said in court about playing a video of an interview.

Thank you for taking the time for typing the transcript. I have been unable to follow closely and really appreciate seeing the information typed out like that.

 

[cuffem]

Continued
Customary to have LE ,CPS watching from mirror during interview
Can be conflicting interests with LE and interviewer
Standard practices in interviewing are accepted everywhere
Try to limit interviews of child to protect the child and the info they are providing
Dr. has reviewed 100's forensic interviews taking place
Is is not common to have multiple forensic interviews with one child
The purpose for CPS to conduct it so LE does not need to (?)
Keep talking to child can contaminate the info
It can be scary to have LE with guns interview children
Put children in friendly kids room
Consider age, language, cultural, and circumstances of the case
Start with basic questions to get them comfortable ( Yes Stallings had asked about breakfast, good job! )
Going over Power Point
Recall Memory is were you ask question and they answer no outside influence ( Going to need to make a list of clinical terms and meaning )
Recognition memory is not an answer from recall but from picking up cue.
Reconstruction
Once you get narrative you focus on getting detailed info
Interview phases, build rapport, truth and lie, interview instructions, substantive, narrative practices detail and gathering, alternative hypothesis, closure
Priming is putting idea in someones mind and can influence how they answer
Should question a alternative hypothesis in a non leading way to get truth
15 min break

 

[cuffem]

So far I do not see CPS or LE as improper interviewing, bias interviewing. Although Barton and Castillo did discuss their personal opinion on the case, I do not see it as affecting the interview.IMO. This is not the McMartin Case IMO.

I will try later to make a list of technical and clinical terms.